A pleasant Sunday morning read. Good luck Aaron with your future endeavours and well done by the club. 

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-22/davey-back-with-demons-as-he-builds-coaching-skills

Great move by the MFC. I have often thought we needed a kicking coach and Davey had one of the best kicks in the league

The headline of the article (not this thread) is a little misleading as the coaching stint is only for the training camp. 

Great to have Aaron back in the Red and Blue even if only for a short time. Love ex-Demons returning to the fold. 

  On 23/12/2018 at 01:08, Demonland said:

The headline of the article (not this thread) is a little misleading as the coaching stint is only for the training camp. 

Great to have Aaron back in the Red and Blue even if only for a short time. Love ex-Demons returning to the fold. 

This is an initiative being driven by Craig Jennings, Nev and Matty Whelan

They are trying to establish a pathway for Indigenous Coaches into the AFL, and not necessarily ex players

Our Club is more and more becoming an off-field 'pace setter' for the entire competition.  I'm proud of that fact!

................. and on-field is quickly heading in the same direction.  Go Dees!

  On 23/12/2018 at 01:40, Satyriconhome said:

This is an initiative being driven by Craig Jennings, Nev and Matty Whelan

They are trying to establish a pathway for Indigenous Coaches into the AFL, and not necessarily ex players

Why cant they use the same pathway as everyone else?

 

  On 23/12/2018 at 03:33, faultydet said:

Why cant they use the same pathway as everyone else?

 

Yeah, I get a bit annoyed about whole separate streams of development and 'special programs' and the like in a lot of situations, but this is one where it makes sense. And importantly, has a sunset to it - once it succeeds in the goal of normalising the idea of Indigenous people being coaches, it'll wind down naturally.

In a professional community as small as AFL-level coaching, personal contacts make all the different. Because of the legacy of separation, because of the competing priority of supporting your community (e.g. Neville Jetta) and because many indigenous players emerge from comparatively remote places (the article notes "... trips to the Northern Territory, Cairns and regional Western Australia to target those who typically aren't exposed to leading coaching strategies "), the direct personal connections aren't going to be as strong. Plus, somehow still, there are little bits of creeping racism which can really stink up efforts at networking.

Networking is particularly vulnerable to pissy little low-key racist exclusion. All it takes is just a couple of soft-racist types to do some moaning about how "such-and-such is only getting an interview because we want to look politically correct" or "that guy is only at this event to make up the diversity numbers" and an Indigenous prospective coach is having their credibility and worthiness questioned by people who would otherwise not blink at giving them a chance. Even quite earnestly not-racist people can be influenced by the grumbling of someone they respect, particularly because the actual racial motive might be all but invisible, so to anyone listening it just sounds like a colleague making an honest observation.

So that's the lay of the land, but with the momentum for change now, through the likes of Davey and Whelan and Jetta, it really should just be a matter of time.

I'd understand if you still find it irritating, but at least take comfort knowing it is a temporary effort that'll just straight-out solve this particular problem in the long run.

But also, if Davey could get our entire team kicking the way he could, it would just be magical to watch. We could play the Blue Danube from the speakers all game and it wouldn't match the grace.

  On 23/12/2018 at 04:17, Little Goffy said:

Yeah, I get a bit annoyed about whole separate streams of development and 'special programs' and the like in a lot of situations, but this is one where it makes sense. And importantly, has a sunset to it - once it succeeds in the goal of normalising the idea of Indigenous people being coaches, it'll wind down naturally.

In a professional community as small as AFL-level coaching, personal contacts make all the different. Because of the legacy of separation, because of the competing priority of supporting your community (e.g. Neville Jetta) and because many indigenous players emerge from comparatively remote places (the article notes "... trips to the Northern Territory, Cairns and regional Western Australia to target those who typically aren't exposed to leading coaching strategies "), the direct personal connections aren't going to be as strong. Plus, somehow still, there are little bits of creeping racism which can really stink up efforts at networking.

Networking is particularly vulnerable to pissy little low-key racist exclusion. All it takes is just a couple of soft-racist types to do some moaning about how "such-and-such is only getting an interview because we want to look politically correct" or "that guy is only at this event to make up the diversity numbers" and an Indigenous prospective coach is having their credibility and worthiness questioned by people who would otherwise not blink at giving them a chance. Even quite earnestly not-racist people can be influenced by the grumbling of someone they respect, particularly because the actual racial motive might be all but invisible, so to anyone listening it just sounds like a colleague making an honest observation.

So that's the lay of the land, but with the momentum for change now, through the likes of Davey and Whelan and Jetta, it really should just be a matter of time.

I'd understand if you still find it irritating, but at least take comfort knowing it is a temporary effort that'll just straight-out solve this particular problem in the long run.

What a great answer. Thanks for that.

I never thought for one moment that it WAS a problem, but you are correct. The AFL is certainly very incestuous clique.

I would love to see Whelen/Davey/Jetta coaching in the future (If they were good enough) 3 of my all time favourite players, and all seemed like really good blokes also.

Edited December 23, 20186 yr by faultydet

  On 23/12/2018 at 05:34, faultydet said:

What a great answer. Thanks for that.

I never thought for one moment that it WAS a problem, but you are correct. The AFL is certainly very incestuous clique.

I would love to see Whelen/Davey/Jetta coaching in the future (If they were good enough) 3 of my all time favourite players, and all seemed like really good blokes also.

Whelan is a no for coaching, he is hapoy doing what he is doing, besides which not exactly of 'physical example' his words not mine, Nev will eventually coach methinks, already has his hand in with various academy teams

Craig Jennings is trying to create a pathway for Indigenous coaches, he is bemused that some of the talent he finds nationwide can't get a sniff

If you think there is no problem, Nev was racially villified by a prat in the stands only 2 seasons ago and Eddie Betts got it last year, it is the 'acceptance'of Indigenous coaches by supporters that has to be normalised for a start

Welcome home Flash?

Background:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-03/arnhem-land-trip-to-further-indigenous-coaching-cause

We have had some of the best players to ever set foot on the park who are indigenous.

Yet there has never been an indigenous head coach at AFL level.

Approx 10% of players are indigenous, we have 3 indigenous assistant coaches at present. 

Confused as to why people would see promotion of a pathway to develop indigenous coaches as an issue or be “annoyed” by it.

  On 23/12/2018 at 10:32, Cards13 said:

We have had some of the best players to ever set foot on the park who are indigenous.

Yet there has never been an indigenous head coach at AFL level.

 

Barry Cable and Polly Farmer both coached at AFL / VFL level.

So 2 of the 3 clubs with Indigenous coaches have won the last 2 premierships. With Dan Rioli and Shane Edwards being vital for the Tigers, and a rejuvenated Lewis Jetta as well as Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli great for the Eagles.

Too small a sample size to say it's more than just a coincidence for now but I've been told too many times by smart people that the best way to get Indigenous people involved in any thing - health, public safety, land management, business - is to have it community run with other Indigenous leaders. They see and fix the challenges that people like me don't see or don't understand. 

Richmond and the Eagles might be ahead of the curve hiring coaches who understand players differently to the rest, not to mention coaches who understand the game in different ways. If Davey could teach a few of our small forwards to stalk and run down defenders that would be great, if he could teach our mids how to create angles and laser in kicks that would be even better!

Great article and great outcome finally comming to fruition.

If I recall correctly, Flash was caught up in that whole clean slate effort that saw soo many of the experienced players at the club expunged.  Whilst I don't claim to have any insight into whether that clean out was really justified in order to create cultural change, what a lost opportunity in other respects.  In the following years, our kicking skills were lamentable and yet we had in Flash someone who was a great kick and that "was interested in becoming a development coach at an AFL club when his playing career ended but was unable to secure a job at the time." 

Great to see the club mending some fences and welcoming back some of it's greats of that era.  All the best to Flash in his coaching endeavors.  Seems like he came through the system the hard way as a player being overlooked intitally, before coming through as a rookie and now that he is doing it the same way as an aspiring coach.  Would be great if his coaching career can take off at some point and be as productive as his playing days became once he got himself into the system at the elite level.

  On 23/12/2018 at 10:32, Cards13 said:

We have had some of the best players to ever set foot on the park who are indigenous.

Yet there has never been an indigenous head coach at AFL level.

Approx 10% of players are indigenous, we have 3 indigenous assistant coaches at present. 

Confused as to why people would see promotion of a pathway to develop indigenous coaches as an issue or be “annoyed” by it.

Mark Williams

Edited January 9, 20196 yr by ManDee
May not be indigenous - see below

I reckon Nev Jetta has future coach written all over him. seems a great communicator and likes helping people get the best out of themselves, as witnessed by his contribution to many causes in the community. he's also got the grit. after some early challenges in his career, he's had to to pick himself up, dust himself off, work hard and rise up above the rest. he knows what it takes. he's a pretty impressive package is our Nev.

  On 08/01/2019 at 22:43, ManDee said:

Mark Williams

He's not got indigenous blood...

This article might clear thing up.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/port-coach-mark-williams-great-great-grandad-was-a-slave/news-story/d3160104373d807e83716d8cd455a489

  On 09/01/2019 at 00:08, rjay said:

He's not got indigenous blood...

This article might clear thing up.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/port-coach-mark-williams-great-great-grandad-was-a-slave/news-story/d3160104373d807e83716d8cd455a489

 

Never trust Wikipedia.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Williams_(Australian_footballer,_born_1983)

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Mark Williams (born 13 April 1983) is an indigenous former Australian rules footballer who played with Hawthorn and Essendon in the Australian Football League (AFL). He was traded from the Hawks to the Bombers during the 2009 AFL trade week.

Edited January 9, 20196 yr by ManDee
Wrong Mark Williams -sorry

  On 09/01/2019 at 00:15, ManDee said:

 

Never trust Wikipedia.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Williams_(Australian_footballer,_born_1983)

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Mark Williams (born 13 April 1983) is an indigenous former Australian rules footballer who played with Hawthorn and Essendon in the Australian Football League (AFL). He was traded from the Hawks to the Bombers during the 2009 AFL trade week.

Different person. Much younger. He was a very short full forward for Hawks who had a couple of excellent years and was then traded to Essendon where through injuries and loss of form he never had much of an impact. 

  On 09/01/2019 at 00:08, rjay said:

He's not got indigenous blood...

This article might clear thing up.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/port-coach-mark-williams-great-great-grandad-was-a-slave/news-story/d3160104373d807e83716d8cd455a489

Wow that’s a great story. Thanks for posting

  On 09/01/2019 at 00:18, It's Time said:

Different person. Much younger. He was a very short full forward for Hawks who had a couple of excellent years and was then traded to Essendon where through injuries and loss of form he never had much of an impact. 

What a goose, I shall withdraw in disgrace.

He was the "shooter" who pretended to shoot clay targets every time he kicked a goal. Pretty good player, bit of a [censored]!

  On 24/12/2018 at 00:38, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Great article and great outcome finally comming to fruition.

If I recall correctly, Flash was caught up in that whole clean slate effort that saw soo many of the experienced players at the club expunged.  Whilst I don't claim to have any insight into whether that clean out was really justified in order to create cultural change, what a lost opportunity in other respects.  In the following years, our kicking skills were lamentable and yet we had in Flash someone who was a great kick and that "was interested in becoming a development coach at an AFL club when his playing career ended but was unable to secure a job at the time." 

Great to see the club mending some fences and welcoming back some of it's greats of that era.  All the best to Flash in his coaching endeavors.  Seems like he came through the system the hard way as a player being overlooked intitally, before coming through as a rookie and now that he is doing it the same way as an aspiring coach.  Would be great if his coaching career can take off at some point and be as productive as his playing days became once he got himself into the system at the elite level.

It was worse than that. 

Can you recall the whole media contingent getting on the story that Neeld had allegedly made racist remarks about Flash? It was just another variable for the media d-heads to use against the club when we were already KO’d. 

I recall Flash placing an arm around Neeld in a show of camaraderie not long after it was all allegedly took place.