Farewell Jesse Hogan

[hemingway 7,597]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He is a gun forward who could kick 60-70 goals at 23. His value to us is high either way. 

I am just amazed at the amount of people who are prepared to see him given away. 

Fremantle need a forward. Let them pay a high price.. or walk away empty handed. 

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. Most would agree that he is a gun forward and can kick goals. 

But there are so many other considerations which posters have already discussed. Contract length and cost, the need to gain some players to fit gaps, the need to keep existing valuable players by paying them top dollar, team structures and game plan, injury, attitude, the potential cost and liability of him on a long term contract, the potential cost of him playing one more season and then walking. 

If it was just about ability, potential etc there would be no debate

[layzie 28,934]

8 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Bird in the hand. I'm with you...

When all's said and done, Taylor and every recruiter worth their salt know exactly what they want in each draft for years in advance. If we want more early picks in this draft over the next one, it's because we like these kids better. And vice versa. Still fun to watch unfold though.

Yeah that's it. I mean that's without knowing too much about next year's draft class of course but it seems the sensible option. Would much rather a very good talent that fits what we need than the absolute best talent on the board. 

[SFebes 4,692]

Barrett reporting that they need to negotiate an outcome with Neale before Lobb and Hogan.

[Sir Why You Little 34,569]

4 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. Most would agree that he is a gun forward and can kick goals. 

But there are so many other considerations which posters have already discussed. Contract length and cost, the need to gain some players to fit gaps, the need to keep existing valuable players by paying them top dollar, team structures and game plan, injury, attitude, the potential cost and liability of him on a long term contract, the potential cost of him playing one more season and then walking. 

If it was just about ability, potential etc there would be no debate

It’s all about 2019 for me. I want a crack at the Flag with Hogan in the side.

If he is sold i expect a top return, i am not interested in bargaining, because the buyers are at the door. 

Take it or F&@k off

[beelzebub 22,225]

47 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

one would need to be desperate to pay pick 5 for May... he comes free next year

Hogan might not be much more ..

It's about now. 

[Sydee 3,633]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s all about 2019 for me. I want a crack at the Flag with Hogan in the side.

If he is sold i expect a top return, i am not interested in bargaining, because the buyers are at the door. 

Take it or F&@k off

Personally if any of our players are not fully invested / committed to the MFC I'd prefer they played at Casey or went to the beach and let someone who is 100% committed run out onto the field particularly in a GF , Jesse Hogan included 

[Sir Why You Little 34,569]

4 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Personally if any of our players are not fully invested / committed to the MFC I'd prefer they played at Casey or went to the beach and let someone who is 100% committed run out onto the field particularly in a GF , Jesse Hogan included 

I agree. That isn’t the discussion. 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

Chill out people. Forget the noise. This is a business negotiation.

 

[Sydee 3,633]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree. That isn’t the discussion. 

Maybe not directly but if a trade doesn't happen and he is not committed then the point/discussion becomes extremely valid 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Sydee
grammer

[drdrake 3,038]

42 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We changed our game plan after the Sydney game - the last game Hogan played. We were much more patient, better at delivering the ball inside 50 and didn't defend so high. So it is not necessarily useful to speculate on Hogan's performance as he didn't play under those circumstances. When he played when were bombing the ball into our outnumbered fwd50 like nobody's business.

What we also did was play Max Gawn like an old fashion ruckman a kick behind the play and it worked really well until the prelim and that explains why we are going after Preuss 

[ding 5,126]

Edited 4 minutes ago by Sydee 
grammer

Grammar.

[daisycutter 28,576]

another exciting day zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

33 minutes ago, layzie said:

Yeah that's it. I mean that's without knowing too much about next year's draft class of course but it seems the sensible option. Would much rather a very good talent that fits what we need than the absolute best talent on the board. 

Yeah. I wonder if, given the Hogan thing (according to some) came out of the blue very late in the AFL calendar, we're at a disadvantage. I wonder if Taylor had spent the last 12 months looking at this draft class thinking he wouldn't be picking earlier than late second round. And now he has to go through his gameplan potentially with multiple first round picks, some early? 

[Diamond_Jim 11,818]

29 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Hogan might not be much more ..

It's about now. 

You may be right but I think in a straight comparison between what Hogan and May offer in 2019 my preference is Hogan.

Happy to trade for value but I just don't see value.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

49 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s all about 2019 for me. I want a crack at the Flag with Hogan in the side.

If he is sold i expect a top return, i am not interested in bargaining, because the buyers are at the door. 

Take it or F&@k off

I like your attitude WYL and partially agree with you. I’ve got no problem with Hogan fulfilling the final year of his contract, playing for Melbourne in 2019 and helping us win a premiership. Could not give a stuff about media circuses or whiny worry warts pining that “this will all happen again next year.” So what! He’s a professional footballer who will knuckle down and provide the best service he can. Just like Bryce Gibbs did when he had to stay at Carlton an extra year before heading to Adelaide. Fronted up again and won their B&F!

However, you’ve always got to be prepared to negotiate. Cards close to your chest, talk tough sure. But there’s always a bit of unspoken wriggle room to grease the wheels of a deal. That’s business.

Edited October 10, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[deespicable me 1,435]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

We could potentially end up with 5 and pick 1 next year. But is pick 1 next year better than pick 6 in a superdraft?

Pick 1 next year is a great bargaining tool, think Kelly from GWS, so this years pick 5 and next years pick 1 would be a great trade for us if that was the scenario that played out.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, deespicable me said:

Pick 1 next year is a great bargaining tool, think Kelly from GWS, so this years pick 5 and next years pick 1 would be a great trade for us if that was the scenario that played out.

Would it ever. Highly unlikely to happen... But I do love the thought of Freo's first rounder in a year when Mundy's a year older, Neale is gone, Hogan has a bad foot...

It's one of the fun things about future pick trades. The one's we've done since they brought it in were probably just good trades. No massive unders or overs. But I look at the WC>GC trade of their first rounder. What a trade.

[The Chazz 4,077]

5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You may be right but I think in a straight comparison between what Hogan and May offer in 2019 my preference is Hogan.

Happy to trade for value but I just don't see value.

But it's not a straight comparison of the output individually (ie Hogan 2019 vs May 2019).  It's the output of the individual for our team (ie Hogan & Melbourne 2019 v May and Melbourne 2019).

Edited October 10, 2018 by The Chazz
For (in italics)

[Ted Lasso 16,819]

would you accept pick 5, Darcy tucker and Ed Langdon for hogan? A mate put that idea to me and I don’t mind it simply because we have lost a good amount of our depth. May fills the key defensive need and tucker and Langdon are good enough to challenge strongly for a place in our best 22 

 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

2 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

would you accept pick 5, Darcy tucker and Ed Langdon for hogan? A mate put that idea to me and I don’t mind it simply because we have lost a good amount of our depth. May fills the key defensive need and tucker and Langdon are good enough to challenge strongly for a place in our best 22 

 

No.

Thats the equivalent of pick 5, 25 and 35 for Hogan.

Tucker and Langdon would be fringe 22 players at Melbourne. At best. Not good enough for this deal.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

9 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

would you accept pick 5, Darcy tucker and Ed Langdon for hogan? A mate put that idea to me and I don’t mind it simply because we have lost a good amount of our depth. May fills the key defensive need and tucker and Langdon are good enough to challenge strongly for a place in our best 22 

 

The key right now for us I reckon is understanding we're losing quality, and to get quality back. Not just depth. There's a handful of really good forward pocket types out there. They're a bit easier to find. If we're gonna get one they have to be a world better than what we've got... Hannan, Spargo, Fritta... Not just a slight improvement.

Those names feel like steak knives in that deal.

[hemingway 7,597]

53 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s all about 2019 for me. I want a crack at the Flag with Hogan in the side.

If he is sold i expect a top return, i am not interested in bargaining, because the buyers are at the door. 

Take it or F&@k off

Love your last line, a line that most of us occasionally use or would like to use, until common sense prevails.

And that common sense tells us that rarely do you get your wish, indeed, by using your famous last line, you may well get something but less than what you want at a cost or something that is even worse.....you get nothing.

I like your spirit but I would much prefer a negotiated outcome that all parties including Hogan desire.

That Flag tilt you refer to may not be assisted by Hogan's return particularly if he has not invested in the future of the team and the Club. .    

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

4 minutes ago, hemingway said:

That Flag tilt you refer to may not be assisted by Hogan's return particularly if he has not invested in the future of the team and the Club. .    

Where does this assumption from many posters come from that a player is not ‘invested’ in performing to the best of his ability purely because they haven’t signed a long term deal? 

Hogan is a professional footballer. If anything he may come out and kick 75 goals next season as he tries to impress suitors and stick it right up everyone!

[DeeZee 6,753]

The fact that Jesse has not said he is staying at Melbourne , and it’s the end of day three of trade period, confirms to me that he is definitely going as long as a deal can be done.

Hurry up Brisbane and Freo and agree to a trade for Lachie Neale, so we can get this all sorted.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

11 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

The key right now for us I reckon is understanding we're losing quality, and to get quality back. Not just depth. There's a handful of really good forward pocket types out there. They're a bit easier to find. If we're gonna get one they have to be a world better than what we've got... Hannan, Spargo, Fritta... Not just a slight improvement.

Those names feel like steak knives in that deal.

Agree.

Hogan is about the sixth most important player at Melbourne.

A trade where Freo is trying to pull him off our list while still on contract should net us two players who would be in the best 12 of our 22. Or equivalent value in draft picks.

Fringe players won’t cut it.