On 09/08/2018 at 06:59, Adzman said:

I'm still optimistic about Pat McKenna. A good mate of mine was involved with Gisborne FC when he was playing there and he swears by him as a gun talent. I have never seen him play, but my mate is a pretty good judge of football talent so his opinion carries weight with me.

I would be shattered if we don't give him one more year to see what he is made out of.

ADZ is Gisborne in DV League now 2nd Division or which one are they in please. Moved away a while ago, and how strong are they...

  On 09/08/2018 at 06:35, Deespicable said:

Corey Wagner and Jay Lockhart

These two have growth written all over them. Keep, for heaven's sake.

  On 09/08/2018 at 07:11, willmoy said:

ADZ is Gisborne in DV League now 2nd Division or which one are they in please. Moved away a while ago, and how strong are they...

In Bendigo league. Still have an ok seniors side but haven't dominated for a while. They are 6th currently from memory.

Two main thought processes in play for me:

• We only move them on if we get better in return - ie, picks, cap space, player etc.  We have to be thinking in terms of upgrades, not just getting rid of people.  Think of Watts out (+15% salary) and Fritsch in.
• Guys that want to leave (retire or more opportunities) can go, and we do the best we can on the payoff side of it.

Our team is now one that has to shift from being seen as ‘potential’ and instead be looking in terms of capability.  I think we are short in the following areas:

Back up ruck (King and Flipper are a long way off)

Running defenders and quarterbacks (Lewis and Vince are not getting younger)

Outside mids (Baker looks the goods, but needs to develop a bit more)

So our needs should drive the choices.  Lets not piff people out until we can get better.

  On 09/08/2018 at 07:11, Deemania since 56 said:

These two have growth written all over them. Keep, for heaven's sake.

We can't keep them because we don't have them - they're Casey players and anyone can draft them. If we want them, we need to draft them before someone else does; hence Deespicable's suggestion we rookie list them next year.

Just find a way to clone Fritsch and have a team full of em.

J.Wagner gone Frost and J.Smith ahead of him. Dion,Flippa,King have become surplus. Vince to retire . Either Jones or Lewis to go if we get Gaff. Kent may be offered as trade bait. T.Smith possible delist, age and lack of game time may go against him.Maynard same as T.Smith. JKH possible. Worth another year Keilty , McKenna , Bugg,Pedo (due to his versatility) Would like to C.Wagner,White and possibly Lockhart given a go. Balic has left the building. So we need 5-6 players

at this stage of the year, i could totally imagine it only being balic, vince and pedo being the ones who go at the end of the year, all as retirements

given that the following are out of contract: 

• avb
• vince
• pedo
• kent
• keilty
• johnstone
• balic
• jkh
• filipovic
• king
• o mac
• bull smith
• bugg

i would suspect that only kent and jkh may have some trade value, while avb and o mac are must-keeps imo

i would love for vince to go around again - he's clearly best 22 at the moment - and i'd love for him and pedo to continue on as depth

only keilty, johnstone, filipovic, king are untried at afl level; can we carry them all for another year?

interesting that wagner is under contract til the end of 2019 - i guess that means he stays on the list, unless someone comes calling for a trade (and hey, it's possible - look at kyle cheney who has more than made a career since being traded away for magic beans)

Edited August 10, 20186 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

I think Vince goes around again.  we don't have a lot of good ball users down back.

Unless we recruit a ready made backup ruckman,  Pedo should get another year for emergency if we lose Big Max to injury.

Our 2 ruck kids look miles off , and I personally do not like seeing TMac rucking,  he's too valuable forward and has had foot /toe issues. 

He may not be required but I'd be keeping him for insurance.

Every year we re-hash the same things on here.

About the maximum holes you can create on your list is 5 or 6. That is because pick 6 will be in the 90's in the draft. 

So what is better, keeping a Bugg or McKenna, who may offer something, especially if you know what they are offering, or a 17 year old unknown who 17 other clubs have passed on 4 or 5 times?

Trades are trades.  Unless you trade for picks you get one player, you lose one...net zero. 

If C.Wagner or Lockhart are as good as has been reported, they won't be rookied, they will be snapped up in the main draft, same as we did for Fritsch last year.  Just because they are playing for Casey doesn't mean other clubs haven't noticed. 

Mad as Hell has already correctly identified 8 who are de-listable.  Balic is already gone and the chances Bernie will retire are far greater than 50% given the way he is playing. 

At the moment Pedo is about the only real insurance we have for Max, but will he want to stay on that basis?.  Filipovic wasn't called upon to ruck at Casey when King went down this week, that says something about the confidence the staff have in him.

 If a player hasn't been called up this year or ever, then they are the ones in the gun.

1 gone, 1 retirement maybe 2, leaves 4 max.......  Johnstone, Filipovic, Kent..... with King, Bugg and Keilty as line ball

 

ATM it would be delist Bugg, Balic, Vince and Filipovic.

Pedo on thin ice. Playing for his career against the Swans.

The rest stay.

  On 10/08/2018 at 07:00, george_on_the_outer said:

At the moment Pedo is about the only real insurance we have for Max, but will he want to stay on that basis?.  Filipovic wasn't called upon to ruck at Casey when King went down this week, that says something about the confidence the staff have in him.

 

That's not true the Weid can play ruck. Even Bull can play ruck.

Edited August 10, 20186 yr by WERRIDEE

  On 09/08/2018 at 03:42, Red and Blue realist said:

Yeah good topic an I agree with DD's except that we only have to turn over 6 players, and you've put forward 9, remember Balic has already retired (or 8 if we get a player instead of pick for Kent).

Depending if we go for Gaff or another free agent then one or 2 of Johnstone, Flip, McKenna or Bugg might hold on, plus we won't have a great deal of draft picks. It might just come down to the $$$, keeping Bugg, JHK and TSmith will be more expensive than a new draftee or one of those who haven't played seniors yet, it might only be a couple of hundred thousand but that might be needed to help retain Hogan or get Gaff?

Please explain

  On 10/08/2018 at 06:56, DubDee said:

I think Vince goes around again.  we don't have a lot of good ball users down back.

Vince is finished

  On 09/08/2018 at 04:36, MadAsHell said:

I'd also like to think he wont be going.  I think the only way he's leaving is if he went to the club and asked for a trade.  Wont be the other way round.

I think Frosty is becoming important for the club with his newfound ball use, and responsibility.

 

  On 09/08/2018 at 06:12, Freddy Fuschia said:

I think JKH's name was associated with Carlton at some time in the past.

He might be the subject of interest to them again at the end of the year.

He's becoming a stayer, unless part of a possible Gaff deal.

----------------------------------------------------

 

Dom Tyson - Keep/trade

Bernie Vince - gone, retire

Aaron Vandenberg - ???

Tomas Bugg - ???

Dean Kent - gone, trade

---------------------------------------------

Cameron Pedersen - rookie list

Declan Keilty - keep/rookie list

Dion Johnstone - keep/rookie list

Patrick McKenna - no idea?

Mitch King - ???

Lachlan Filipovic - ???

Harley Balic - gone

.

  On 10/08/2018 at 06:56, DubDee said:

I think Vince goes around again.  we don't have a lot of good ball users down back.

Trouble is, not sure Vince really is a solution for that problem.

Meanwhile, with Lever, Hibberd, and now Smith all missing from our backline, Vince has been dropped.

Compared to himself in 2017, Vince's 2018 stats are down in basically every category, most notably a pretty serious drop from 21 disposal a game to just 16.

I hate letting players go and I am still stung by the memories of the botched purged of veteran players under Schwab's agenda, but I've drifted to the side of a respectful delisting/retirement for Vince.

With full respect to him - he gave us a lot more than I expected and was without doubt a part of turning this club around.

I think after today's omission, we can safely say that Bernie will retire at the end of the year. He has become what Crossy would have become had he been given one more year.

At least he can say that he gave everything he had to give because the tank is definitely empty now.

Edited August 10, 20186 yr by Colin B. Flaubert

  On 10/08/2018 at 09:33, Little Goffy said:

Trouble is, not sure Vince really is a solution for that problem.

Meanwhile, with Lever, Hibberd, and now Smith all missing from our backline, Vince has been dropped.

Compared to himself in 2017, Vince's 2018 stats are down in basically every category, most notably a pretty serious drop from 21 disposal a game to just 16.

I hate letting players go and I am still stung by the memories of the botched purged of veteran players under Schwab's agenda, but I've drifted to the side of a respectful delisting/retirement for Vince.

With full respect to him - he gave us a lot more than I expected and was without doubt a part of turning this club around.

YEP and with a heavy heart!

Oh and one other thing.. Anyone who doesn't realise what Sam Frost gives to our defense doesn't appreciate the modern footballer and game! Sure he will make the Odd mistake but height and pace are two pretty good attributes.

He well and truly STAYS 

In fact put him on a three year deal. We let him go and watch another club swoop and reap the benefits!

Edited August 10, 20186 yr by picket fence

  On 10/08/2018 at 09:33, Little Goffy said:

Trouble is, not sure Vince really is a solution for that problem.

Meanwhile, with Lever, Hibberd, and now Smith all missing from our backline, Vince has been dropped.

Compared to himself in 2017, Vince's 2018 stats are down in basically every category, most notably a pretty serious drop from 21 disposal a game to just 16.

I hate letting players go and I am still stung by the memories of the botched purged of veteran players under Schwab's agenda, but I've drifted to the side of a respectful delisting/retirement for Vince.

With full respect to him - he gave us a lot more than I expected and was without doubt a part of turning this club around.

 

  On 10/08/2018 at 09:40, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I think after today's omission, we can safely say that Bernie will retire at the end of the year. He has become what Crossy would have become had he been given one more year.

At least he can say that he gave everything he had to give because the tank is definitely empty now.

I hope that Vince & the club consider having him sign on at Casey next year. His presence there would be great for our young guys.

  On 10/08/2018 at 07:46, WERRIDEE said:

ATM it would be delist Bugg, Balic, Vince and Filipovic.

Pedo on thin ice. Playing for his career against the Swans.

Th8e rest stay.

I think they will keep Bugg

  On 10/08/2018 at 09:02, dworship said:

Please explain

Each team is required to turn over 6 players from their list each year, one way or another.

  On 10/08/2018 at 06:56, DubDee said:

I think Vince goes around again.  we don't have a lot of good ball users down back.

He is not a good ball user. Criminally slow now too, in both mind and body. He's done.

Lewis on the other hand has another year left in him. Potentially two. We'll see. The end does come quickly sometimes. I have a feeling he could be in and out of the team in 2020 if he wants to play on.

I reckon Pedersen will get another one year deal.

I'd give Johnstone a one year deal or delist and re-rookie.

I don't rate AVB, but reckon he'll go around again if he can stay fit for the rest of the year.

Kent will move on. 

Pat McKenna has to be close to gone.

Likewise, Maynard.

Bugg will go too.

  On 10/08/2018 at 11:04, Red and Blue realist said:

Each team is required to turn over 6 players from their list each year, one way or another.

3, not 6

  On 10/08/2018 at 06:56, DubDee said:

I think Vince goes around again.  we don't have a lot of good ball users down back.

Why are those two sentences together in your post? The second is correct.