Should O.Mac and JKH Play A Game For The Dees Again?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

JKH is done.

OMac has had an improved season but has dropped away the last few weeks.

[Redleg 40,981]

7 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Woeful footballers!

As far as O. Mac is concerned, a woeful post. 

He was giving probably 15 kgs and 200 games to Hawkins who was also given several unstoppable passes. Open your eyes. Yes he had a poorer game than his best and Hawkins probably had the best of his career , so why not move Frost on to him earlier? Why not have Lewis or someone else in front of him cutting off the lead? It is not all Oscars fault. There were 21 others and a box full of coaches who could have done a bit more. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Redleg

[dino rover 714]

I just dont see the potential in jkh

I dont blame omac 

When the ball comes in like it did at times backs cant do much - face it

Hawk is on 41 goals and he didnt get there only playing Melbourne 

[spirit of norm smith 16,478]

Outs. Jkh. Omcd

in. Baker and Keilty 

maybe find a spot for Vandenburg if match fit. 

[Adzman 2,154]

Omac stays. Has clearly missed lever back there, but is still a better option than any of the the vfl troop.

JKH is done at the MFC. I'm sad for him, but that's footy. Maybe he breaks into Carlton and makes a name for himself there.

 

[Johnny Karate 559]

Silly post regarding O Mac. Matthew Scarlett would struggle with some of the delivery opposition teams seem to get inside 50 against us. It’s a team defence/structure/O Mac’s age, size and experience that hinders team.

JKH is done. Really enjoyed his efforts in 2014 but he hasn’t really developed any further. 

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Omac has played some good games this year. Jkh is done, and I’m not sold on smith either. Would have preferred Wagner come in 

[Billy 2,534]

This is a really dumb post, don’t good clubs reward selection?

JKH  was rewarded for his good form at Casey, played ok and did his job against the Dogs.

Probably showed that he’s not up to it when the heats on, that’s fine,  he’ll probably get dropped and delisted at years end.

Omacs form has dropped off after losing Lever and now Hibberd, that’s your 2 best defenders, the way the ball was coming in in the las quarter no one could’ve stopped it.

Its a team defence and Omac didn’t get much help from the team in that last quarter

Don’t  forget Max dropped a chest mark in the goal square to go 6 goals up early in the last

Its another real heartbreaker and tough to take but let’s not eat our own

Its a tough gig following the MFC.,

 

[spalding 1,128]

This omac witch hunt is just crap.

the game plan was working at 3 quarter time. We were beating the cats with their preferred system of play - and although Hawkins was dangerous, he was their only forward. Remember Rd 1 - where he was quiet but Menzel and others got off the chain.

tne cats rolled the dice at 3 quarter time and went to all out attack at the stoppages - which worked. Omac was isolated versus Hawkins and got smashed, but just about every full back would have been. He needed more support from either some midfield defence or a spare in the hole. We were too slow to adapt. Hibberd probably would have make a difference here, and been a fair chance to spoil Tuohy. 

i think his first 50 games have at least been the equal of his brother - and his decision making and disposal is much, much better. I wish some of his teammates showed his composure with his mark and kick in the last couple of minutes. 

A couple more years and 5-10 kg and he will be our version of Daniel Talia - who is the cornerstone of the crows defence and an all Australian. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,221]

18 rounds of football and the list of key forwards who have kicked 4 goals in a game against us is Hawkins 7 last night and Cox 5 on QB. For your narrative at a stretch you could call the bags of 4 by Membrey (round 15) and Menzel (round 1) key forwards rather than  mid size not that Oscar played on them at all.

Oscar lowered his colours last night to a quality mature power forward but I was more concerned by the midfielders who let them waltz the ball through and deliver it to him on the lead. He has rarely been beaten this year and this is without the expected support of Lever for most of it and Hibberd yesterday. 

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,778]

52 minutes ago, Billy said:

This is a really dumb post, don’t good clubs reward selection?

JKH  was rewarded for his good form at Casey, played ok and did his job against the Dogs.

Probably showed that he’s not up to it when the heats on, that’s fine,  he’ll probably get dropped and delisted at years end.

Omacs form has dropped off after losing Lever and now Hibberd, that’s your 2 best defenders, the way the ball was coming in in the las quarter no one could’ve stopped it.

Its a team defence and Omac didn’t get much help from the team in that last quarter

Don’t  forget Max dropped a chest mark in the goal square to go 6 goals up early in the last

Its another real heartbreaker and tough to take but let’s not eat our own

Its a tough gig following the MFC.,

 

Agree completely, without Omac we're opening ourselves up for a belting 

[DeeSpencer 25,743]

7 hours ago, rjay said:

Frost gets drawn in between the ball & his opponent (in no mans land) to late getting back to Hawkins making position in the corridor, marks the ball passes to Toohey & the rest is history.

We've got problems with our defence, no doubt about that but Frost is part of the problem, not the solution.

What was he doing for the other 95 minutes of the game?

I'm far from a Frost fan - he'll always make errors like rushing up for crazy tackles and letting his man over the back - but he looks in decent form right now and I'll admit he wasn't perfect at the end but he made some big plays on Hawkins after Oscar let him have free reign all night. Frost was mainly on Jack Henry who had 11 disposals and 1 mark for the game. 

[rjay 24,997]

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Frost was mainly on Jack Henry who had 11 disposals and 1 mark for the game. 

Exactly, a first year player who is a defender forced to play a forward role.

Where was Frost? why wasn't he able to zone off an inexperienced player to help out with Hawk? or to cover space?

Make no mistake, his was the final bad decision that cost us the game. 

Those that think moving him to Hawkins earlier would have been a match winning move are kidding themselves. Hawk probably would have kicked 10.

[Big Carl 333]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Frost in 5 minutes on Hawkins - 2 big spoils and a great intercept mark from front position.

Oscar on Hawkins - caught 5m behind and unable to close any ground, getting turned around trying to wrestle and being 2nd to the ball. 

Oscar looks like a player who needs to go back to the 2's and work on how to watch the ball and impact contests and not get caught reaching for body contact. 

 

[Big Carl 333]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Frost in 5 minutes on Hawkins - 2 big spoils and a great intercept mark from front position.

Oscar on Hawkins - caught 5m behind and unable to close any ground, getting turned around trying to wrestle and being 2nd to the ball. 

Oscar looks like a player who needs to go back to the 2's and work on how to watch the ball and impact contests and not get caught reaching for body contact. 

Hawkins has done stuff all for 5 years considering his size and he suddenly turns it on against us. Go figure!

[Big Carl 333]

9 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Paging @binman.

JKH I can understand, but Oscar? He plays next week and, like the Jordan Lewis thread, makes this topic obsolete. 

Oscar yes.

JKH. NO!!

[titan_uranus 25,020]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Cox kicked 5 on him v Coll
Better on Dixon but beaten by Westhoff a couple of times v Port
McCartin 2 goals 3
Played on no one v Freo
Schache takes him for 8 marks and 2.2
Hawkins kicks 7

A very ordinary 6 weeks and if that's enough for a walk up start next week then I feel bad for the VFL defenders who have won 10 games in a row.

There was no team defence, at all, against Collingwood or St Kilda.

Hawkins kicked 4 of his 7 goals in the last quarter when, again, no team defence.

Seeing a pattern now?

It's not all Oscar's fault. He's played better, and I want improvement from him, but Alex Rance isn't going to stop key forwards kicking goals when our team defensive structure is as poor as it is.

I also argue that the loss of Lever hurts Oscar considerably more than many understand or admit, so dropping Oscar doesn't fix that problem.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I'm far from a Frost fan - he'll always make errors like rushing up for crazy tackles and letting his man over the back - but he looks in decent form right now and I'll admit he wasn't perfect at the end but he made some big plays on Hawkins after Oscar let him have free reign all night. Frost was mainly on Jack Henry who had 11 disposals and 1 mark for the game. 

Henry's a first year defender who was played out of his comfort zone as a forward.

Hawkins is a 226-game AA forward who kicked 4 last week against Adelaide and in his last 9 games before last night had kicked at least 3 goals in all but one of them.

This is not a good argument from you.

[DeeSpencer 25,743]

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

There was no team defence, at all, against Collingwood or St Kilda.

Hawkins kicked 4 of his 7 goals in the last quarter when, again, no team defence.

Seeing a pattern now?

It's not all Oscar's fault. He's played better, and I want improvement from him, but Alex Rance isn't going to stop key forwards kicking goals when our team defensive structure is as poor as it is.

I also argue that the loss of Lever hurts Oscar considerably more than many understand or admit, so dropping Oscar doesn't fix that problem.

Oscar simply couldn't get near Hawkins though. It wasn't being over powered or even out sprinted by a speedy player. He had decent position, but would get turned around or led to the ball and was floundering. Same thing happened against Schache, same thing happened against McCartin at times. Up field pressure sure helps but at some stage a defender has to read the kick, attack the contest and do their best. If Hawkins was clunking strong marks under pressure or shoving Oscar off with strength I could cop it. 

In the same lack of team defending Frost won 3 contests against Hawkins by using his speed to close on the contest and get a fist in.

Oscar doesn't have the speed, so he has to be switched on and reading the play and right up on his opponent. Yet so many times he was trailing in miles behind. The signs were there against the Dogs when Schache - who has no discernible athleticism - left Oscar in his wake last week.

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Henry's a first year defender who was played out of his comfort zone as a forward.

Hawkins is a 226-game AA forward who kicked 4 last week against Adelaide and in his last 9 games before last night had kicked at least 3 goals in all but one of them.

This is not a good argument from you.

Never said anything about the quality of opponent, was simply saying Frost was doing a decent job on the guy he was playing on most of the night. There was an opportunity to move Oscar on to Henry but they took far too long to do it.

[picket fence 17,181]

4 hours ago, Rocky said:

why yes, i do like drugs, however, on the topic of JKH & O-Mac..

JKH should only be played against rubbish sides/if we have no one else to play. Personally, iId rather have Bugg in the team (or ideally VDB). 

I've never been a fan of O-Mac, however, I believe the calls for his head after this game are crazy. He wasn't to blame for the loss. The coaches messed up and should have altered our structure, or at least NEVER put him on a power forward. He is a skinny kid. Maybe quick between the ears, but weak and half-hearted as all get out. I feel he has a place in the team, but only as a third defender. Also, he needs to stop dumping the ball out of our defensive 50 'just to get rid of it'. in games of no consequence/shitty opposition, he has time and has good footskills. these all but disappear against decent opposition. 

so. depending on the situation, JKH I would say should not be played and O-Mac stays, but NEVER gets a power forward again. also, the coaches need to adjust their....oh why bother... 

if all that remains in matchups is the power forward.. what then??

[Mach5 4,768]

Should WERRIDEE post in this forum again..?

Fairly crap OP

[Coq au vin 755]

10 hours ago, Mr Steve said:

What a load of rubbish. Nobody is going to stop a forward when the ball comes in that fast. 

Absolutely, hit the nail on the head. It was the midfield that broke down in the last quarter, leading to exquisite delivery by the geelong midfield to their forwards. And not into a pack of ten players on the top of their reaching fingertips like the delivery to hogan.  Where were the rest of our backs? It wasn’t just Oscar on his own. It was a team stuff up.

JKH, Tyson, Smith and Jones on the other hand....,

[titan_uranus 25,020]

33 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Oscar simply couldn't get near Hawkins though. It wasn't being over powered or even out sprinted by a speedy player. He had decent position, but would get turned around or led to the ball and was floundering. Same thing happened against Schache, same thing happened against McCartin at times. Up field pressure sure helps but at some stage a defender has to read the kick, attack the contest and do their best. If Hawkins was clunking strong marks under pressure or shoving Oscar off with strength I could cop it. 

In the same lack of team defending Frost won 3 contests against Hawkins by using his speed to close on the contest and get a fist in.

Oscar doesn't have the speed, so he has to be switched on and reading the play and right up on his opponent. Yet so many times he was trailing in miles behind. The signs were there against the Dogs when Schache - who has no discernible athleticism - left Oscar in his wake last week.

Never said anything about the quality of opponent, was simply saying Frost was doing a decent job on the guy he was playing on most of the night. There was an opportunity to move Oscar on to Henry but they took far too long to do it.

Yes well that's the point, isn't it. If Frost looked good, that's largely due to his opponent being a defender, not a forward.

I don't think McCartin ever made Oscar "flounder". IIRC he got at least one of his goals from a 50m penalty, and was the beneficiary of a rubbish Melbourne turnover up the ground as well.

Oscar can play better than he currently is, that's for sure, but I don't think the response is to drop him when we have obviously identifiable problems further up the ground that are the bigger cause for concern. 

[jnrmac 20,109]

We should draft Zac Dawson to replace Oscar. He would still be better than Oscar.

[demons123452000 131]

I sit here and read most things written on  Demonland and enjoy most but this thread is CRAP not one mention of 2 main backs out injured, blame the flankers for not one of them dropping in front of the raging fullforward ,could have landed a 747 down the middle so have a think before you hit the key board.