27 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I would have thought McCartin would be a round 2-3.  Talent probably places him in the 2nd, concussions and health/injury issues push him to third...

For the life of me I simply do not understand the hype around Darcy Moore and would be flabbergasted if a club surrendered a first round pick for him.

Agree ... he has not shown much more than Sam but the difference is he was payed all last year.

Tom Mac playing forward has really made it difficult for Sam. Not sure how it will play out in the 2019/2020 timeframe. Perhaps his relief ruck work will help him but he has to have another few strings to his bow.

PS: I see in the Trade Hogan thread mention is made of playing Sam at CHB. A possibility. The jury is still very much out on whether it has worked for Moore.

Edited August 15, 20186 yr by Diamond_Jim

If we don't think we can play finals, by all means play Weideman for the next two weeks. He is not even close to AFL standard at present, so a decent reality check might be the best thing to spur him to put in a massive pre season. He needs to get fitter, stronger, tougher, smarter - the whole lot.

If we think finals are achievable, and I think this week is very winnable, then Goodwin needs to finds the 22 most in form, seasoned footballers he has this week. If that means playing a small forward line so be it. If he wants to replace Hogan with another tall, Weideman's inability to provide a genuine physical contest makes him a liability against good sides.

I'm confident Weideman will make it as an AFL player.

It's someone else's (good) idea - if he doesn't make it as a forward he would make a very good key defender - he's strong in the air, clean at ground level for his size and is a beautiful kick.

IMO he has to play this week in Hogan's absence.  We've got to bite the bullet and give him his opportunity.

In the medium term we do have a problem fitting him into the 22 with TMac and Hogan locking in the 2 tall forward spots and barring long-term injury to either (both have had foot troubles) or a move by Hogan back to Perth - he's going to be at Casey and that will not fulfill his ambitions or capability.  If Hogan and TMac look good for 2019 pre-season, IMO it would be worth trying him down back over that period.  We could retain T.Smith OR Pedo as willing depth in the key forward area

In the long run down back we've got Lever, OMac and Frost (who has enhanced his reputation strongly) too, with Petty and Keilty as willing developing depth.

We've got one of two promising talls on our list that are likely to be looking for opportunities elsewhere in the medium term - that's a good problem to have.

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

IF that is the case, I doubt we’d let him go unless the trade offer was significant.  His stocks are as low now as they could ever be and he’s coming to an age and size that he can start to make an impact.  We’ve already invested a lot of time in him and out no 1 forward has just gone down with what is a potentially very serious injury.  Contracted to the end of 2019, so I’d hope we keep him.

If not selected this week, i think it will be a mutual parting. If selected, it will be entirely up to him to show he wants to stay

 

1 minute ago, bobby1554 said:

If not selected this week, i think it will be a mutual parting. If selected, it will be entirely up to him to show he wants to stay

 

He has to be selected and give Max a chop out in ruck so Tom Mac can stay up forward.  Then it is up to him. He has failed with the opportunities he has had in the past. Must win game for the team and Weid must deliver.

17 minutes ago, poita said:

If we don't think we can play finals, by all means play Weideman for the next two weeks. He is not even close to AFL standard at present, so a decent reality check might be the best thing to spur him to put in a massive pre season. He needs to get fitter, stronger, tougher, smarter - the whole lot.

If we think finals are achievable, and I think this week is very winnable, then Goodwin needs to finds the 22 most in form, seasoned footballers he has this week. If that means playing a small forward line so be it. If he wants to replace Hogan with another tall, Weideman's inability to provide a genuine physical contest makes him a liability against good sides.

Very true, watching him play to me he seems like a passive participant, that is the game goes on around him without him trying to influence it in any way. If selected he must try ti have an impact some how.

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Maybe if he was banging down the door, shees 

Yes, its not as though he's dominating at Casey although going ok, needs to really fly for his marks with purpose and crash the packs. His senior games have been pretty ho hum.

15 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

He has to be selected and give Max a chop out in ruck so Tom Mac can stay up forward.  Then it is up to him. He has failed with the opportunities he has had in the past. Must win game for the team and Weid must deliver.

He's a talent but don't think he can impact now.  Needs another 6 or 7kg over summer, and a bigger tank but he is a good grab, has a bit of mongrel, good kick.  If he can do that over the next year or two then he'll be the same weight and height as Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins who really only started impacting when they were around 23.

As a Pedo fan for a long time I am happy to say now that Pedo's game is too limited for him to take the spot the Weid should logically have this week.

The Weid is superior in the ruck to Pedo,  and the Weid has a future. His kicking is as good as, if not better than Hoges who was seriously twitchy against the Swans. Sure the Weid has not set the world on fire goal kicking wise but Hoges is on average good for just over two per game. If the Weid gave us that and offered relief for Gawn in the ruck he will have done his job.

He must be given the chance for the next two weeks. While his body may not be ready for big pack marks, he reads it well in the air and his hands as far as I have seen them are clean.

Seeking a considered opinion about the Weid's game at Casey. (Mods feel free to merge this with the Weid thread once KC and other serious Casey watcher give their view.)

How has the Weid's game developed this year at Casey?

How's his ruck work...his marking...leading...kicking?

Give us the works.

46 minutes ago, poita said:

Weideman's inability to provide a genuine physical contest

There you go...

You see I think he does provide a genuine physical contest.

What I would like to see him do more of is hold his grabs.

Time at AFL now will tell us if he's a keeper or not.

Has to come in...

20 minutes ago, loges said:

Yes, its not as though he's dominating at Casey although going ok, needs to really fly for his marks with purpose and crash the packs. His senior games have been pretty ho hum.

Yea seems odd, he has been given a few goes at it for a stretch of games, had a couple of injuries that have dropped him out of the side too.

He has shown little glimpses that I think make he look like an exciting prospect. He needs to show more of it from here on out, maybe focus on that rather than looking for a trade kid, not like there are huge road blocks and numbers of big fwds in front of him.. 

16 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

As a Pedo fan for a long time I am happy to say now that Pedo's game is too limited for him to take the spot the Weid should logically have this week.

The Weid is superior in the ruck to Pedo,  and the Weid has a future. His kicking is as good as, if not better than Hoges who was seriously twitchy against the Swans. Sure the Weid has not set the world on fire goal kicking wise but Hoges is on average good for just over two per game. If the Weid gave us that and offered relief for Gawn in the ruck he will have done his job.

He must be given the chance for the next two weeks. While his body may not be ready for big pack marks, he reads it well in the air and his hands as far as I have seen them are clean.

Weid at the very least is equal to Peds if not ahead of him at senior level. Peds seems to do well in the 2s, Weids does ok with a few outstanding returns.

Peds is not much chop at senior level, and probably on par with Weid at senior level. The difference with Weid at senior level is he has time on his hands, he is young and does some nice little things but these need to grow.

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

There you go...

You see I think he does provide a genuine physical contest.

What I would like to see him do more of is hold his grabs.

Time at AFL now will tell us if he's a keeper or not.

Has to come in...

I'm not so sure

Getting into a wrestle and getting forced under the ball or flat handed dropped marks is not what we need

I want to see a leading option to demand our mids lower the eyes. Perhaps smaller fwd line and rotate Oliver and Petracca deeper

 

I'd back Weid to be a better target for bail out kicks to 0 - 30 metres out from goal than Hogan. Weid reads the flight better, can jump at the ball, and gets his hands to more high balls than Hogan.

Not damning Hogan. Just think his skillset is better suited to a mobile forward role. 

 

does he have any mongrel or real aggression?  I havent seen it.  its his major issue and he has the physicial attributes

It’s crunch time for Weideman.

ill throw it out there. 3-way trade!

Sydney - Darcy Moore

Collingwood - Sam Weideman

Melbourne - Tom McCartin

Edited August 15, 20186 yr by Dee tention

9 minutes ago, demoniac said:

I'd back Weid to be a better target for bail out kicks to 0 - 30 metres out from goal than Hogan. Weid reads the flight better, can jump at the ball, and gets his hands to more high balls than Hogan.

Not damning Hogan. Just think his skillset is better suited to a mobile forward role. 

 

Hogan is light years ahead of Weideman. not sure how you conclude that.

10 minutes ago, demoniac said:

I'd back Weid to be a better target for bail out kicks to 0 - 30 metres out from goal than Hogan. Weid reads the flight better, can jump at the ball, and gets his hands to more high balls than Hogan.

Not damning Hogan. Just think his skillset is better suited to a mobile forward role. 

 

100% agree @demoniac - I remember Hawkins was pilloried for the first 3/4 seasons of his career - and that was a decade ago...same narrative happens... we all 'know' that key talls take longer - unless you are a freak genetically (Hogan) - but we still want awesomeness straight away.

3 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

I mentioned in another thread that my information is that, at this stage, he will be seeking a trade at end of year. He is not happy with the limited opportunities he has had, citing that he gets the chop very easily whilst others seem to get different treatment. I suppose 15 games in 3 years would tend to back that up. At this stage, I really do not know what to make of him as he has not had a decent stint in the ones to settle in to a role. But I would suggest that if he is not selected this week, he is gone.

He does need more opportunity with us.

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Appears injury prone as well TPF39

rubbish.

12 minutes ago, DV8 said:

He does need more opportunity with us.

rubbish.

I was talking about Moore!

Last year he was almost continuously pushed under the ball and lacked leading skills.

This year his ability to stand his ground has improved and he has added relief rucking to his repertoire.

Definitely improvement but remember the VFL skill level has probably been on the decrease and most of the other back up AFL affiliated clubs are not necessarily full of KPD's.

So yes... he's worth a go... Would he have been selected int he absence of injury to Hogan...probably no.

30 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Hogan is light years ahead of Weideman. not sure how you conclude that.

Well I watch Jesse play. Its not percentage play to kick long to him unless he is on the lead. Does not read the ball in the air. Does not get in the best position. Does not jump at the ball. Often does not get his hands to the ball. Does not take too many 1 grab marks. All in all these attributes will always limit his effectiveness zero to 30 metres out from goal which is where a full forward/key forward should be at his best and where they differentiate from small and medium forwards.  More generally Jesse does not have a repeatable goal kicking technique and his positioning and leading patterns need work.

Weidemann can jump at the ball and will get his hands to more high balls.Has been in good from for Casey. Of course we are in the RIchmond Small Ball era so a mid/small may come in.