i'd give up 26 on its own, or they can take 33 and 50 if they want two picks. both options seem fair enough to me.

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:10, BW511 said:

But if the end result is the same, is the reasoning that important?

Let's not forget Cameron is multiple first rounders and some, they are asking for much, much more than the Roos.

Brown on the wide open spaces of the MCG is better prospect than Cameron at the narrow confines of Geelong.

No he isn't and I will reckon that if we pulled out of the deal Brown would still be there for us in National draft at pick 31.

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:20, Patches O’houlihan said:

I'm not sure but i remember at the time feeling like pick 6 was probably slightly overs. he's had a great year in 2020 but just in that moment i felt if it was say pick 10 i'd have been more comfortable with it. 

very happy to have May and what he's bringing to the club, just sharing my thoughts in that moment. 

I agree with your valuation. When it comes to evaluating the List Manager's performance we need to comprehend the currency they had and the situation they were in. Getting May for pick 10 may simply not have been achievable.

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:43, TRIGON said:

I agree with your valuation. When it comes to evaluating the List Manager's performance we need to comprehend the currency they had and the situation they were in. Getting May for pick 10 may simply not have been achievable.

I definitely agree with that. 

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:19, Clintosaurus said:

No, but you know there has to be a winner and loser in everything. ? Trump type logic.

To me it is more about future performance rather than what was paid in draft/trade capital.

If we combine conventional U.S.A Election logic with Trump style logic then everyone's the winner.

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:33, Pollyanna said:

Brown + 19 for 31 + 33 - I doubt it ...

Agreed, we have to add additional sweeteners.

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:33, Pollyanna said:

North's future second is very likely to be 19.

Essendon says hi.

  On 10/11/2020 at 22:41, BigMacjnr said:

Agreed especially when Mahoney publically stated that it they weren't looking at a first round pick, that would include giving up the value of a first round pick. Initial information from North Melbourne was that they wanted the then pick 23 for Brown. We might be manoeuvring to find another way to provide the equivalent value of that pick without giving it up.

It would be very disappointing having been told that first round compensation was not on the table to then give up mid first round value. Say what you will about Mahoney but he is a pretty straight shooter, would be surprised if this were the case. This is the type of shenanigans you would expect from Dedoro or Bell. 

You have read into this what you wanted to. The initial information you read was half rumours as reported. It could have been that they wanted 23 plus a player, or 23 plus next years 2nd.

Also Mahoney said “I don’t think it’ll be a first rounder (we’ll be giving up) for Ben Brown,”. Giving up 2 second rounders or a points equivalent 1st is not the same. He is saying we wouldnt give up our first pick (this year or next) and we wouldnt trade out to get a first only to give that up.

Ben Brown for 33 and Preuss (pick 31). We are bloody laughing if that's the case.

The key here is that we obviously want to do something else wirlth those picks too. So can we do 26 and 33 and still get it done? Or does it need to be 31 and 33?

 

So I take it you guys are happy for Ben Brown to play elsewhere next year because you didn't want to give up 26 or a couple picks in the 30's.

I know it's awesome to win trade week but it's even more awesome to win games of footy.

Good on us if we can get Brown on the cheap but I won't be sooking it up if we give up picks 26 and 33 for him (and a later pick)

  On 10/11/2020 at 23:17, Mayday said:

Think this thread has divulged into a bit of "pick obsession" and Dodoro style lets be a pain in the backside stuff... you get a chance at 60+ goal kicking forward at 27-28 years of age by using a combination of some 2nd/3rd round picks, you just get the deal done.

Would we rather trade in Brown for pick 80? Sure. But it won't be that and it shouldn't be that, fair business is good business, so let's just get it done.

Whilst in a broader philosophical sense I agree with you, in this case I think it's about trying to get Ben Brown without overly diluting our potential 1st round pick prospects.

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:17, TRIGON said:

Whilst in a broader philosophical sense I agree with you, in this case I think it's about trying to get Ben Brown without overly diluting our potential 1st round pick prospects.

Exactly Tri we have an opportunity and we needn't get reamed at the first instance 

We should be using our strong hand to preserve as many good draft picks as we can

don't see norf has much bargaining power

brown out of contract......norf not even offering a contract.....don't want him

brown committed to dees.......happy with dee's offered contract

mfc could get him cheap via draft a'la carlton last year

mahoney needs to stand his ground......he holds a good hand

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:27, daisycutter said:

don't see norf has much bargaining power

brown out of contract......norf not even offering a contract.....don't want him

brown committed to dees.......happy with dee's offered contract

mfc could get him cheap via draft a'la carlton last year

mahoney needs to stand his ground......he holds a good hand

Problem with that is unlike Jack Martin, Brown probably hasn't put an absurd contract price over his head to scare 17 other clubs away.

And there are 9 other clubs that have a month to convince Brown to play for their club.

It's essential a trade gets done or he likely will never play for the MFC.

  On 10/11/2020 at 22:27, spirit of norm smith said:

Exactly. Even pick 31 only. Ffs.
Kangas are dumping Brown. Screw them.  

Spot on

  On 10/11/2020 at 22:44, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i'd personally have no issues giving two picks in the 30s - they'll end up being closer to picks in the 40s

brown is easily worth a first round draft pick equivalent imo - he's ready to go and a gun, particularly if you compare with cameron over the last five seasons

i think it's perfectly justifiable for north to demand more than pick 31 or 33, for instance, given the fact that gw$ are rejecting 3 first round picks for a player who has similar numbers to that which we'd be looking to give up two speculative picks in the 30-40 range

Id ask for a second or 3rd rounder back next year if we have to give 2 seconds.

  On 10/11/2020 at 22:54, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i think yr missing the point of what i said - he's worth the EQUIVALENT of a first round pick; he's an established regular goalkicker

and it's not true that nobody else wants him; we were into him, as too were at least the aints and the peptides who both had 'dialogue' with him

i think two picks in the 30-40 range is an absolute bargain for a top range full forward at his peak years

I think he will improve us, but he ain't in the same league as Cameron, sure he scores goals but contested marking is my concern especially with our forward half game style, there's not much space for leads

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:27, daisycutter said:

mahoney needs to stand his ground......he holds a good hand

Agreed, don't panic!

 

Edited November 11, 20204 yr by TRIGON

Facts don't care about feelings

Fact is we want Brown

Some might have the feels that we ought not pay "overs" to get him because North have sent him packing

Fact is he would add to our arsenal and help win games

Paying "overs" (subjective) for him Because Feels is puzzling

Just get it done, bit of risk letting him go to draft?

What Bring Back Powell said

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:32, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Problem with that is unlike Jack Martin, Brown probably hasn't put an absurd contract price over his head to scare 17 other clubs away.

And there are 9 other clubs that have a month to convince Brown to play for their club.

It's essential a trade gets done or he likely will never play for the MFC.

agree that it's not a lay down misere

but....it's still a possibility and represents a big risk for north 

from north's point they still get nothing whether he goes to dees or someone else

  On 10/11/2020 at 21:38, Lucifer's Hero said:

I don't put much store in what Jon Ralph reports but fwiw:  "...Melbourne was “very open” to giving Picks 31 and 33 to North in exchange for Brown".

In points that is equivalent to #14 ?

Not on in my book for a player they have dumped on the footpath.

The points is rubbish unless you are using them for academy or fathers sons.  If Nth take the deal they get 2 kids as 31 and 34 not a kid worth pick 14

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:32, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Problem with that is unlike Jack Martin, Brown probably hasn't put an absurd contract price over his head to scare 17 other clubs away.

And there are 9 other clubs that have a month to convince Brown to play for their club.

It's essential a trade gets done or he likely will never play for the MFC.

BBP, I don't think any of the clubs that would have a pick before us in the PSD would actually want him.  The only exception would possibly be Essendon or Hawthorn, and if Brown had half a brain in his head, he would go "Luke Ball" on both of them and not even speak to them.

That said, Melbourne won't much around too much, it's not what we do.  WE have a bloke that wants to join us, we want him to join us, he'll make an immediate impact, Mahoney will get it done, and it won't cause too much damage to other ideas that the club has (most likely with regards to moving up the draft order).

Im finding this trade period incredibly frustrating. 

  On 11/11/2020 at 00:44, Demons11 said:

The points is rubbish unless you are using them for academy or fathers sons.  If Nth take the deal they get 2 kids as 31 and 34 not a kid worth pick 14

Under that scenario the trade picks then look like;

Melbourne: 26, 43, 50, 68, 69, 89 

North: 2, 11, 28, 31, 33, 41, 70, 71, 81 

North's currency (as highlighted) means that they have the flexibility to create a pick swap package that the Dogs (the holder's of pick 14) could find very attractive. For North, 3 picks in the top 15 -  a great start to a rebuild.

Can we trade up in the Pre-Season draft and tell him to walk there?

  On 11/11/2020 at 01:08, Travy14 said:

Can we trade up in the Pre-Season draft and tell him to walk there?

no 

Screw north. It’s pick 31 OR 33 and throw in pick 68 if they are getting annoyed. They are kicking Brown out !!!

I continue to be bewildered by the love of draft picks. There’s a greater than 50% chance the draft picks in the region we’re talking about will yield a player who plays 0 games. There’s about a 90% chance they’ll contribute little to nothing in the short term. Brown clearly helps us immediately and in the medium term. 

If Mahoney missed Brown because he wouldn’t cough up two picks in the 25-35 range I’d be furious. Sure I hope one pick gets it done, but I still think it’s cheap.

  On 11/11/2020 at 01:48, Nasher said:

I continue to be bewildered by the love of draft picks. There’s a greater than 50% chance the draft picks in the region we’re talking about will yield a player who plays 0 games. There’s about a 90% chance they’ll contribute little to nothing in the short term. Brown clearly helps us immediately and in the medium term. 

If Mahoney missed Brown because he wouldn’t cough up two picks in the 25-35 range I’d be furious. Sure I hope one pick gets it done, but I still think it’s cheap.

That won’t happen. BB will be with us next year. I would be confident JH has plans for certain picks and will get his deals done, at least those with us getting something or someone. That might not be the case, where we are trading players out.

  On 11/11/2020 at 01:48, Nasher said:

I continue to be bewildered by the love of draft picks. There’s a greater than 50% chance the draft picks in the region we’re talking about will yield a player who plays 0 games. There’s about a 90% chance they’ll contribute little to nothing in the short term. Brown clearly helps us immediately and in the medium term. 

If Mahoney missed Brown because he wouldn’t cough up two picks in the 25-35 range I’d be furious. Sure I hope one pick gets it done, but I still think it’s cheap.

Agreed.  The only reason to care is what picks we have left after the trade to upgrade into this year's first round.  That's what's holding this up from getting done IMO.  We've worked hard to maximise our mid-range 2020 picks and we want to use that effectively.