If we were to get Brown, and McDonald returns to form - who plays in the seconds? Brown, McDonald, or Weid?

I’m not sure we’ll go after Brown now that we know McDonald looks to be staying tho, FWIW.

Yeah I want Ben.Brown and Polec. How do we get both? We only have 1 second round pick. We might get a second round pick for Preuss. GWS don't have a second round pick. Can we get Sydney's second rounder pick 22 for him or is it too early? Pick 22 and 23 can get Polec and Ben.Brown but can we get that pick? Hard to see us get both if we can't get the Swans pick.

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

Yeah I want Ben.Brown and Polec. How do we get both? We only have 1 second round pick. We might get a second round pick for Preuss. GWS don't have a second round pick. Can we get Sydney's second rounder pick 22 for him or is it too early? Pick 22 and 23 can get Polec and Ben.Brown but can we get that pick? Hard to see us get both if we can't get the Swans pick.

Agree W what about a future 2nd rounder and Oscar.

Just now, adonski said:

If we were to get Brown, and McDonald returns to form - who plays in the seconds? Brown, McDonald, or Weid?

I’m not sure we’ll go after Brown now that we know McDonald looks to be staying tho, FWIW.

Can't trust Tommy after 2 poor years. More trust in Brown. Tommy will play in the reserves all year if we are going places.

41 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Can't trust Tommy after 2 poor years. More trust in Brown. Tommy will play in the reserves all year if we are going places.

Tommy mac can easily go back into defence if Brown comes in

I want Brown and Saad 

1 hour ago, Demons1858 said:

Tommy mac can easily go back into defence if Brown comes in

Please god no! With our one way running midfield, Tom will butcher the ball out of the back line for multiple goals a game.  I’ve never been so nervous watching someone with ball in hand coming out of defence.

Either he gets his body right and may play some games next year, or they offload him for the best deal they can.  We need a proper professional forward, no more defenders that may be able to kick goals.

2 hours ago, adonski said:

If we were to get Brown, and McDonald returns to form - who plays in the seconds? Brown, McDonald, or Weid?

I’m not sure we’ll go after Brown now that we know McDonald looks to be staying tho, FWIW.

How does McD return to form before that question is answered? If we get Brown, he and our starting lineup from mid last year, start in the firsts (Weid+Jacko)

McD is in the 2nds, improving his game and waiting for an opportunity through form or injury.

Edited October 5, 20204 yr by John Demonic

7 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

How does McD return to form before that question is answered? If we get Brown, he and our starting lineup from mid last year, start in the firsts (Weid+Jacko)

McD is in the 2nds, improving his game and waiting for an opportunity through form or injury.

Lose the weight, blitz the time trials, kick 16 goals every preseason match simulation, you know what I mean

On 10/4/2020 at 4:29 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Re the bolded parts.  My comments were based on a fit TMac and he gives us those.

As I said, TMac gives us more list flexibilty going forward than being locked into a 3+ year contract with Brown.

We can't afford both.  If we can't trade TMac (and it seems there are no takers) then we can't have Brown.

That might be right but your post about Brown just refers to him as an accurate kick for goal, downplaying the other reasons why he is actually a really good forward and could be a strong addition to the side.

If the rumours about TMac are true and we're keeping him, it's hard to see how or why we'd go get Brown as well. We don't need all of Weideman, Brown and TMac on solid coin competing for two key forward spots. But if it is a choice between Brown and TMac, there's a lot more to Brown than you've been prepared to admit.

Brown has injury issues, as well.

24 minutes ago, adonski said:

Lose the weight, blitz the time trials, kick 16 goals every preseason match simulation, you know what I mean

Fair enough. I forgot about preseason games, silly me. I wonder if the AFL will bother though next year, might not be worth any clubs going interstate, they might just have a couple of scratch matches or intraclub stuff. not sure if it's enought to work out the best forward dynamic. 

Edited October 5, 20204 yr by John Demonic

5 hours ago, A F said:

I think Weideman tired. I thought the last stretch of his season was horrible, but the short turn arounds and the lack of KPP support have to be considered IMO.

I'm frustrated by his slow development and sometimes he is too easily pushed under or off the push still. I think he's on the right track though.

Adding Brown would take the pressure off Weideman and enable Jackson to roam. That is very enticing. 

I reckon. It just kinda smells good...

Do we take a look at Paddy McCartin, or is he just too much of a risk to bother with?

2 hours ago, dieter said:

Brown has injury issues, as well.

He had a calf strain in the 2020 pre season and a knee injury late in the season. Other than that he played 11 matches in his first season (2014) and in every subsequent season bar this year, played 22 games. I’d hardly be writing him off as someone who has injury issues.

7 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

I reckon. It just kinda smells good...

Why take risk if Brown is available 

10 hours ago, hardtack said:

He had a calf strain in the 2020 pre season and a knee injury late in the season. Other than that he played 11 matches in his first season (2014) and in every subsequent season bar this year, played 22 games. I’d hardly be writing him off as someone who has injury issues.

No write off: just noting. I had insomnia last night and went through the Demon Import Team of the past 50 years. I noted that some of the biggest names, E.G. Templeton, Steven Clark, Mitch Clark, Vardy, Owen, Lumumba, Carmen, Crosswell, Kolodjashnij, Craig Ellis, all came to the demons under injury or 'issue' clouds. 

 

Edited October 6, 20204 yr by dieter

We cant go again with the same set up, the FD would be derelict in their duties not to make a changes here. Tom Mc Stays and he works his bum off to get into teh shape then thats a bonus.. but we need another Tall. The club simply has to get it done.

On 10/4/2020 at 6:34 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

If our tall fwd option is between Brown and TMac I prefer Tom.  They are the same age and by reports are earning/looking for similar $ packages.

Brown is accurate for goal but is one dimensional ie runs straight to mark the ball overhead.  He doesn't have positional flexibility and is poor defensively.  Tom is a better option on each of those 3 features and therefore fits our (confusing) game plan better. 

We know that Tom has overcome his injuries but don't know if Brown has.

I think we need another tall fwd to help Weideman while Jackson develops.  Much prefer it be Tom and keep him for at least one more year.

I respect you as a poster LH but I think this is complete fantasy-realm. I could obviously be wrong but the notion of TMac getting back to 2018 form seems so far removed from my expectations that it would be derelict of our club to even consider that might be happening and then plan around it as such. The ramifications are bigger if we don't cut our losses and address the issue now. What makes you think that TMac isn't completely broken? Had no agility to begin with and it's even worse now - with the added bonus of no confidence. We signed him when we should have. No one erred. But every club has to suck it up on certain players not performing within the cap. In my opinion, he was the single biggest factor in us missing the finals this year (from a personnel perspective). Ben Brown: yes, easily. For a second-rounder, I would be over the moon. 

55 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I respect you as a poster LH but I think this is complete fantasy-realm. I could obviously be wrong but the notion of TMac getting back to 2018 form seems so far removed from my expectations that it would be derelict of our club to even consider that might be happening and then plan around it as such. The ramifications are bigger if we don't cut our losses and address the issue now. What makes you think that TMac isn't completely broken? Had no agility to begin with and it's even worse now - with the added bonus of no confidence. We signed him when we should have. No one erred. But every club has to suck it up on certain players not performing within the cap. In my opinion, he was the single biggest factor in us missing the finals this year (from a personnel perspective). Ben Brown: yes, easily. For a second-rounder, I would be over the moon. 

Unfortunately I have to agree unless TMac can somehow fix whatever is wrong with himself physically, as watching him this year it's not mental.  He want to  contribute but his body wont follow his brain.  I'm also under the assumption it wont be fixed for next year in any meaningful way and therefore we need a decent 2nd forward now.  Whether that is Brown?  Other than Cameron what other proven goal kicker is on the market? 

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

I respect you as a poster LH but I think this is complete fantasy-realm. I could obviously be wrong but the notion of TMac getting back to 2018 form seems so far removed from my expectations that it would be derelict of our club to even consider that might be happening and then plan around it as such. The ramifications are bigger if we don't cut our losses and address the issue now. What makes you think that TMac isn't completely broken? Had no agility to begin with and it's even worse now - with the added bonus of no confidence. We signed him when we should have. No one erred. But every club has to suck it up on certain players not performing within the cap. In my opinion, he was the single biggest factor in us missing the finals this year (from a personnel perspective). Ben Brown: yes, easily. For a second-rounder, I would be over the moon. 

You could be right. 

Brown has a knee injury s so we are no wiser about its severity and how it affects his main assets:  running speed or leap.

At 28 they both have only a few years left and are injury risks.  Tbh, I would prefer others.

17 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

You could be right. 

Brown has a knee injury s so we are no wiser about its severity and how it affects his main assets:  running speed or leap.

At 28 they both have only a few years left and are injury risks.  Tbh, I would prefer others.

Now my turn for an admission. I have no idea about Brown's knee injury either and it's silly for us to take that path if there's any risk at all. I assume though that the MFC's medical team would be all over it before we went in that direction. 

I've heard that sources close to the club say that Tom injured his foot, and it was really bad, as in never going to be the same player sort of bad.  And tbh, he's been running around as if this was the case.  he just looks soooo immobile.  Incredible given the way and amount he could move in 2018.  He looks lame, and he needs to be moved on.  it's not pretty, but we need to win, and we need to make these calls now.  So move him on and get someone tall big and fast who can lock the ball inside the fwd 50.

This probably is not Ben Brown in honesty - but until that defensive pressure increases in fwd 50 we are cooked.  Especially the way that we KICK into forward 50.  

Surely the reason Tom McDonald is staying is because we've tried to shop him to 17 other clubs, even with a huge discount, even with this story about magically shedding weight (like that wouldn't have been tried last year post a knee injury) and he's just no good.

Picture yourself at any of 17 clubs and think would you take on Tom McDonald, even for a 5th round pick and on 100k a year. Who says yes?

So we're stuck with 2 more years with Tom McDonald at 700k+.

Which in turn means bringing Ben Brown in at a decent wage is tying up a lot of cap space on two ageing big men with suspect movement. Big key forwards don't play well after 30. Brown will soon be 28 and he's never turned all that well.

Ben Brown's one of the best goal kickers in the league but even then he's 3 goals a game from a heap of inside 50 targets. That's what he is and what he does. A couple of contests up on the wing but no tackles, no defensive pressure and I doubt that he's keen to start back up rucking again.

The Weid can mark it, he showed that. Fritsch can absolute mark and get shots on goal inside 50, even if they are points at this stage! We've got Jackson. We've got Petty. Petracca will play more forward in a longer season. Maybe we should just stick to what we've got for this year if there's no perfect options. If Tom comes good, great. Odds say he won't, but then he'll only have 1 year left and might take a payout or be easier to move on.

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Surely the reason Tom McDonald is staying is because we've tried to shop him to 17 other clubs, even with a huge discount, even with this story about magically shedding weight (like that wouldn't have been tried last year post a knee injury) and he's just no good.

Picture yourself at any of 17 clubs and think would you take on Tom McDonald, even for a 5th round pick and on 100k a year. Who says yes?

So we're stuck with 2 more years with Tom McDonald at 700k+.

harsh but almost true

I had hoped some other team would take on 300k of Tom's contract but you could be right.

We were dumb enough to take KK so you never know.