2 hours ago, Big Demon said:

Jones is one of my absolute fav players at this great club. He has been through as many bad times as anybody on the list and I still love watching him play and the way he goes about it which is exactly why I found his comments today on Bernie Vince so disappointing.

 

Nathan you are a very good and valued leader of the club but when you take the stage like a pissant and publicly attack a member of your own group you become a bureaucrat rather than a leader. A real leader would go to Bernie and take that up with him alone if you really believe the rubbish you presented today.

 

MFC were down and out on the weekend and it was Bernie who flew the flag, not you or many of your teammates. Show some respect for people that play with the passion for the jumper, the jumper that we the members support and you have fought so hard for throughout your career.

 

Are you Mrs Vince?

Can anyone remember why we hate Hawthorn? Unsociable football.

Brisbane is the only better team in the last 20 years and does anyone remember how they played?

Leigh Matthews, Barassi, Carey, Ablett (Snr), Whitten the greatest players ever. How did they go about it?

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Can anyone remember why we hate Hawthorn? Unsociable football.

Brisbane is the only better team in the last 20 years and does anyone remember how they played?

Leigh Matthews, Barassi, Carey, Ablett (Snr), Whitten the greatest players ever. How did they go about it?

@Wrecker45I take your point - and I rekon thats a bit of 'confirmation bias' of picking out those particular players - being skilled and tough (lets call most of their toughness blatant thuggery) - How did Martin Pike (4x) go about it, or Mitch Morton(1x), or Nathan Ablett(1x) - or Shane Ellen - they're all premiership winners - unsociable football didn't win the Doggies last year Does Shane Burgoyne himself play unsociable football (he's got 4 under the belt), what about Gary Jnr?It takes all types within a team from the silk, to the workman to the role player to the guys that love the physicality. We don't need to be one particular way as individuals, but we certainly need one ethos.

 

Edited July 18, 20178 yr by Danelska

6 hours ago, Big Demon said:

Well Teamplayedfine69 that is extraordinarily insightful but do you have any thoughts on why a team leader would throw a team member under the bus?

Jones answered a question in an interview.  You prefer him to squib it?  That would look great! 

As to why Jones made the comments:  Because Bernie isn't following team rules.

Rule # 1:  Follow team rules

Rule # 2:  Follow coaches instructions

Not that hard surely.

 

Thrown under the bus? 

I'm now concerned about Bugg!

1 hour ago, Demon77 said:

Thrown under the bus? 

I'm now concerned about Bugg!

Bugg was thrown into the windscreen.

Thanks, I'll see myself out.

Jones was really just starting the bloody obvious.  Hardly see this as him throwing Bernie under the bus.

If anything, the language Jone used gave the media a ready made quote they then used as a cheap headline, but honestly no big deal.  I can't see Bernie loosing any sleep over Jones's media comments per say, other than he will be hoping like hell that we beat Port and or North.

And for the record I have a lot of man love for Bernie.  Generally love the way he goes about his football (including some of the unsociable aspects), has been a fantastic servant to the MFC during a hard period and seems like an all round top clubman/ top bloke off the feild as well.  His snipe at Betts was just plain dumb though and I think even Bernie would admit that.

Edited July 18, 20178 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

4 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Bugg was thrown into the windscreen.

Thanks, I'll see myself out.

Lol, 

Don't know that he even needed to be thrown though, he flew right into it  

Probably the end result of the attraction due to all that media spotlight he put himself in.

I read the article and thought the opposite. I thought Jones showed great leadership. To me leadership is supporting the team but in equal measure - not shying away from the obvious and show displeasure when  necessary.  But hey..what would i know. I  just drive a bus.

Everything he said is true, we have a few players out now and if a couple weren't coming back this week then we would have added vince to the outs as well. Vince has been dirty this year and I don't like it at all. There's a difference in being tough and a thug. 

Edited July 18, 20178 yr by armstrong35

2 hours ago, Danelska said:

@Wrecker45I take your point - and I rekon thats a bit of 'confirmation bias' of picking out those particular players - being skilled and tough (lets call most of their toughness blatant thuggery) - How did Martin Pike (4x) go about it, or Mitch Morton(1x), or Nathan Ablett(1x) - or Shane Ellen - they're all premiership winners - unsociable football didn't win the Doggies last year Does Shane Burgoyne himself play unsociable football (he's got 4 under the belt), what about Gary Jnr?It takes all types within a team from the silk, to the workman to the role player to the guys that love the physicality. We don't need to be one particular way as individuals, but we certainly need one ethos.

 

The point of the Op was not that we need tough players that play unsociable football. It was that Jones was unfair on Vince with his comments.

But to add some counter balance to the roll call of players who have supposedly won grand finals for their team i'd offer up Steve Johnson who i reckon cost GWS a flag by getting suspended for the sort of boneheaded snipe that Vince has just got done for.

On the the toughness front Goody has made it clear his team needs to be uncompromising, physical and attack the ball with ferocity. But play the ball not the man. In essence this is what Jones is reinforcing. And i reckon the dees are not far off what he is demanding.

 

 One of the worst threads I have ever seen created on this board, and that is saying something.

Nathan Jones is the captain of the club and hence would know more than anyone what is expected of his players. If he says a player has done the wrong thing by the club and the players, then I have absolutely no issue with that.

Nathan, more than anyone at this club, has the right balance of being tough and hard at the ball, and the man with the ball, without resorting to cheap shots like Vince did. 

10 hours ago, Big Demon said:

Jones is one of my absolute fav players at this great club. He has been through as many bad times as anybody on the list and I still love watching him play and the way he goes about it which is exactly why I found his comments today on Bernie Vince so disappointing.

 

Nathan you are a very good and valued leader of the club but when you take the stage like a pissant and publicly attack a member of your own group you become a bureaucrat rather than a leader. A real leader would go to Bernie and take that up with him alone if you really believe the rubbish you presented today.

 

MFC were down and out on the weekend and it was Bernie who flew the flag, not you or many of your teammates. Show some respect for people that play with the passion for the jumper, the jumper that we the members support and you have fought so hard for throughout your career.

 

Well there you go - pretty much everyone disagrees with you including me in fact I think you are the pissant here & not NJ.

Terrible, terrible post. Completely devoid of any knowledge of what leadership looks like. He was asked a direct question and answered it. How your mind has gone to where it has is baffling.

 

Now eagerly awaiting the Demonland Social Justice Warriors to come and tell me I'm mean and that it takes courage to post absolute rubbish like this.

Edited July 18, 20178 yr by Smokey

11 hours ago, Big Demon said:

I found his comments today on Bernie Vince so disappointing.

Wrong target Big Demon.  Lewis should be your target after his performance on 360 last night.  He gave Bernie the same clip as Jones but of course Jones can do it because he hasn't been reported and doesn't snipe.

Lewis on the other hand has cost us at least one game (Freo) but failed to see that his comments on Bernie were totally hypocritical.  He should have used the word "we" when he talked about a lack of discipline and how Bernie has hurt the team.  If you're going to talk the talk you've got to walk the walk and Lewis doesn't.

And here is the reason we have publicly clipped Bernie BD.  It's all about Brand - our Brand.  Our club has an image problem.  We are, in the eyes of the public, an undisciplined and thuggish group who regularly go out and snipe other players.  In this day and age it isn't on.  We are completing for sponsorship, members and AFL support (see the comments on the draw).  Our image is hurting us in all these areas and we are in damage control. Hence the public stance on Bernie.

Oh, and how the wheel has turned.  When I criticised Lewis and Hogan (forgiven) for their round 2 antics I was greeted with the same response as you are now.  There were pathetic responses of "provocation" and "retaliation".  Lewis didn't acknowledge he'd hurt the team when interviewed on 360 and was supported on DL for his "FU" attitude.  I reckon a lot of the same people who disagreed with me then now recognize how destructive the stupid and irresponsible these needless suspensions are. They could well cost us finals.

Bernie's copping the heat now but Lewis is equally to blame.  Both in the leadership group?, I'm not sure, but last night Lewis squibbed it and should have stood front and centre with Bernie for letting the team down.

7 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Can anyone remember why we hate Hawthorn? Unsociable football.

Brisbane is the only better team in the last 20 years and does anyone remember how they played?

Leigh Matthews, Barassi, Carey, Ablett (Snr), Whitten the greatest players ever. How did they go about it?

The reasons we hate them are: a degree of jealousy at Hawthorn's success and the way they beat us by 96 points in the GF in 1988. Leigh Matthews was a thug.  He was charged with assault for an incident on field. He fractured Neil McMullin's (a MFC seven-gamer who later became a paediatric surgeon) face. He broke lots of other players' faces too. Ablett has also been involved off field with more than one incident of sociopathic behavior, resulting in court cases, a fine and associated with a suicide of a man who was alleged to have assaulted him and the death of a young woman "associate" while he was in her company and he was allegedly off his face on drugs. Great role models for behavior!

Edited July 19, 20178 yr by Diamond
.

And Wayne Carey smashed a wine glass on his girlfriend's face.

13 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Thanks for the clarification on what Jones said, there was certainly no 'attack' on Vince. As usual, Jones was spot on.

This shouldn't be a thread. Nek minnit Barrett writes an article on tension between Jones and Vince. 

Indeed.

One might even categorise his journalism as... scattergun.

I can see how the OP was taken aback at how forthright Jones was in his comments. I was too. He did however stop short of it being a throwing under the bus exercise, and ultimately I don't think Bernie would give two shits. He would cop it sweet on the chin much the same as Eddie Betts did from his stray elbow.

I quite like the physical edge to the team atm. A bit of ugliness comes with that. We are developing an unsociable reputation which frankly is music to the ears after more than a decade of being the skinny kid in the schoolyard. That said, Bernie is a repeat offender and the time to pull his head in with this stuff arrived a while ago. He deserved a spray from the captain, public and private.

17 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Wrong target Big Demon.  Lewis should be your target after his performance on 360 last night.  He gave Bernie the same clip as Jones but of course Jones can do it because he hasn't been reported and doesn't snipe.

Lewis on the other hand has cost us at least one game (Freo) but failed to see that his comments on Bernie were totally hypocritical.  He should have used the word "we" when he talked about a lack of discipline and how Bernie has hurt the team.  If you're going to talk the talk you've got to walk the walk and Lewis doesn't.

And here is the reason we have publicly clipped Bernie BD.  It's all about Brand - our Brand.  Our club has an image problem.  We are, in the eyes of the public, an undisciplined and thuggish group who regularly go out and snipe other players.  In this day and age it isn't on.  We are completing for sponsorship, members and AFL support (see the comments on the draw).  Our image is hurting us in all these areas and we are in damage control. Hence the public stance on Bernie.

Oh, and how the wheel has turned.  When I criticised Lewis and Hogan (forgiven) for their round 2 antics I was greeted with the same response as you are now.  There were pathetic responses of "provocation" and "retaliation".  Lewis didn't acknowledge he'd hurt the team when interviewed on 360 and was supported on DL for his "FU" attitude.  I reckon a lot of the same people who disagreed with me then now recognize how destructive the stupid and irresponsible these needless suspensions are. They could well cost us finals.

Bernie's copping the heat now but Lewis is equally to blame.  Both in the leadership group?, I'm not sure, but last night Lewis squibbed it and should have stood front and centre with Bernie for letting the team down.

Not sure how often you watch 360, but I've seen Lewis own up and apologise for his suspension a few times on the show, he's admitted that he may have cost us wins and he set a bad example.

It's been mentioned here plenty of times how loose Vince has been on occasion, I have no issues at all in how Jones and Lewis have answered questions on the issue.

The problem with Bernie is that we get zero value from his vaguely aggressive acts. At least there was some logic and appreciable motivation behind what Lewis was suspended for.

On 18/07/2017 at 11:47 PM, Big Demon said:

Well Teamplayed we like every other club are a team. Nat needs to buckle down and understand that Bernie has been much closer to the pinnacle than he and knows what it takes. 

Think of the greatest teams teams the game has seen, Hawks in the 80's hmmm Brereton, Dippa etc, Hawks recently Hodge and co, Lions a decade ago , these teams are not made of the type of player who is going to sit and hope - they are the Bernie Vince and Jack Vineys of the world and Nat now has the chance to play serious finals for the first time in his career but he needs to learn from the likes of Bernie rather than chastise him.

 

Sometimes you just have to stop, think, and say, 'Yeah, nah.'

When you're wrong it's best to go away quietly and come back when everybody's forgotten your outburst. 

Go Jonesy. 

Edited July 19, 20178 yr by The Reverend
Predictive text turns Jonesy into honest. Sort of ironic really.

7 hours ago, Males said:

Not sure how often you watch 360, but I've seen Lewis own up and apologise for his suspension a few times on the show, he's admitted that he may have cost us wins and he set a bad example.

It's been mentioned here plenty of times how loose Vince has been on occasion, I have no issues at all in how Jones and Lewis have answered questions on the issue.

Thanks Males, didn't know that.  I can't stand Robbo so I don't watch 360 other than the ad breaks when Big Bang Theory is on and just happened to catch Lewis.  Having said that I still think Lewis should have stood front and centre with Bernie when discussing it regardless of previous statements. 

On 19/07/2017 at 0:12 AM, DaisyDeeciple said:

you get the like for the 'full Chomsky' reference.

You get the like for, like, using the word minutiae.

When I saw the headline Nathan Jones I was hoping to read that he was no longer 3-4 weeks away and ready by next week. I read his comments and they were fair, straight shirtfronts that Jonesy executes on the field. Not a nasty criticism at all and one Bernie would agree with.