Given Goodie's gone early and announced Max Gawn's return to the team for the West Coast game, what impact will a returning top class Ruckman have on a team that appear to be running well without him?

I noted Jack Viney when asked, replied along the lines of "it allows us to be more proactive" in set ups. Not totally sure what that means (first touch, moving ahead of the ball, etc...), but found the smile he said it with reassuring.

Thoughts?

 

10 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Given Goodie's gone early and announced Max Gawn's return to the team for the West Coast game, what impact will a returning top class Ruckman have on a team that appear to be running well without him?

I noted Jack Viney when asked, replied along the lines of "it allows us to be more proactive" in set ups. Not totally sure what that means (first touch, moving ahead of the ball, etc...), but found the smile he said it with reassuring.

Thoughts?

 

Just allows us to be more agressive/attacking at centre bounces & stoppages. Rather than being reactive to the opposition we can now go back to being aggressive & attack from the middle. It'll also allow us to use the players off the back of the square more attackingly knowing Max will win more hit outs then not

Edited June 20, 20178 yr by JV7

He will be rusty surely?

I want him in but want appropriate expectations.

Figured as much.

Be interesting to see whom of Tommy Mac or Pedo we persist with as back up ruck, assuming both also play. My guess would be Pedo as back up ruck, but as Tom goes back again, are we too tall down back? 

It seems Jack Watts' time in ruck may be over, for the moment. 

Edited June 20, 20178 yr by PaulRB

3 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Figured as much.

Be interesting to see whom of Tommy Mac or Pedo we persist with as back up ruck, assuming both also play. My guess would be Pedo as back up ruck, but as Tom goes back again, are we too tall down back? 

It seems Jack Watts' time in ruck may be over, for the moment. 

Could be both. Max Gawn can play forward or back. With Hogan out we may use Gawn more forward. But in the past he has been effective down back also. Could swap with either Pederson or McDonald. Depending on where he can have the biggest impact.

6 minutes ago, dino rover said:

He will be rusty surely?

I want him in but want appropriate expectations.

Might do 50/50 or 60/40 ruck time. Which wouldn't be so bad as he's a towering forward target too.

Guessing the two at the back of the square will run different patterns expecting Maxy to win the hitout than what has been done the last 7 games. Will be interesting to watch. 

I think it will free up Max now that we know can go ok without him. Perhaps for the first few games he might be used a bit more sparingly than in the past. We really also need him around the ground taking those big marks. Weve really missed that.

can't wait to see it

 

I'd actually look to start McDonald in the ruck and move Gawn to full forward at the beginning of the game, particularly if Watts misses.

As good as our groundwork has been over the last couple of weeks, we're crying out for someone who can take a contested mark. If we find ourselves down by a couple of goals, then we can move Gawn into the ruck who can try and assert some dominance over Vardy/Petrie.

I'd like to see Max start in the centre. Get a feel for it and get some confidence. If he's standing in the forward line, you can bet some sniper will be lining him up to inflict some pain.

I'll just be happy to see big Max get through this game with no injuries.

4 hours ago, JV7 said:

Just allows us to be more agressive/attacking at centre bounces & stoppages. Rather than being reactive to the opposition we can now go back to being aggressive & attack from the middle. It'll also allow us to use the players off the back of the square more attackingly knowing Max will win more hit outs then not

Agree.

You'd have to expect we will also be better placed to respond to the times Gawn needs a chop out than we were before he got injured. So no let up for the opposition! 

Gawn back means we have more options up forward as Watts and Pedders can play forward the whole game, assuming we use T Mac as ruck with Gawny.

So Tracca can move to the midfield to cover the loss of Jonesy.

This is one of many options at Goodys disposal - the upside of having a very versatile team.

Given Jonesy is out, getting Gawn back probably evens up the score. Very important to get the big fella back.

13 hours ago, JV7 said:

Just allows us to be more agressive/attacking at centre bounces & stoppages. Rather than being reactive to the opposition we can now go back to being aggressive & attack from the middle. It'll also allow us to use the players off the back of the square more attackingly knowing Max will win more hit outs then not

It means that rather than having to scrounge the opposition tap out, Max will give us silver service, and we can use the set ups we developed so successfully while he was away earlier and more often. It is very exciting, even without Jonesy.

13 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Figured as much.

Be interesting to see whom of Tommy Mac or Pedo we persist with as back up ruck, assuming both also play. My guess would be Pedo as back up ruck, but as Tom goes back again, are we too tall down back? 

It seems Jack Watts' time in ruck may be over, for the moment. 

Yes I  think Pedo is a much superior ruck option to TMac, I would suggest Pedo plays mostly at CHF, and relieves Max in the ruck, and Max can replace him in the forward pocket when that happens and Watts goes to CHF. 

By the way I understand OMac was a very effective forward in his junior days, and given his size, marking ability and his long kicking he may well be an additional option at CHF. Paul Roos is apparently big on this idea. Might be worth a try if we need to change things around during the game, particularly since Westcoast seems very likely to go in without Kennedy. 

Max made an interesting comment during his Demonland podcast cameo regarding the possibility of a Spencer/Gawn combo that I wasn't able to entirely decipher at the time with full confidence. Said it was something the coaches were still looking at (and Maxy was getting along to watch how the comp's best forward-rucks operated) - a rough misquote; 'If it happened, I'd obviously be more the forward-ruck'. Couldn't work out if he meant he would be designated that specific role while Spencer went in number one in the middle, or if the 'the' was in reference to the role generally - 'the' forward-ruck type.

This article is a good summary of how we have coped/thrived without Max http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/how-melbourne-has-adapted-to-max-gawns-absence-and-has-improved-overall-since-his-injury/news-story/e6981886e0bd367f30551a0791ce14c0

Something that impressed me was: 

"This year, the Demons have led the league for average contested possessions (154 per game), while they’re third for uncontested possessions (259.7), are second for tackles (76.9) and fifth for clearances (38.6)".

I know stats aren't everything buy that is an impressive set of numbers highlighting our competitiveness and aggression around the ball.  Proves the team has learnt how to implement Goodwin's preseason mantra of playing 'from the contest out'.

I also like that the word 'sharking' is being used a lot to describe how our midfield is playing the opps ruckman. 'Sharking', has a very vicious ring about it.  Reckon the players would be very proud of that label!!

I have a very important question, has big Max grown back the beard yet? 

I haven't seen the big guy for a while.

Still can't put my finger on why, but ever since hearing Gawn is coming back into the team I've struggled to work out how things would work in the team. Watts, Tmac and Pedo have been great n the ruck/Fwd rotation, but equally OMac and Frost have held up much better in defence than I expected. 

It's a great problem to have, but I really feel for whoever eventually goes out when Watts and Hogan come back into the team.  In terms of our talls, I actually think they are all in good form and none deserve to be dropped at this point, but inevitably Gawn makes the team a lot stronger, as does Hogan, but we can't play them all. 

I don't actually think I want to see TMac play in defence, at least while Oscar is improving... but can't see a role for him up forward with the other guys in the team, but then again he is one of the club leaders. TMac and Pedo are now fighting for the same spot in the team, and Pedo is more natural as the FWD/Ruck... So unless we come up against a team with three talls in in attack... which other than GWS and WCE (when Kennedy is fit) which have such a set up... 

Glad I don't have to select the team... just get to provide an opinion 

49 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Still can't put my finger on why, but ever since hearing Gawn is coming back into the team I've struggled to work out how things would work in the team. Watts, Tmac and Pedo have been great n the ruck/Fwd rotation, but equally OMac and Frost have held up much better in defence than I expected. 

It's a great problem to have, but I really feel for whoever eventually goes out when Watts and Hogan come back into the team.  In terms of our talls, I actually think they are all in good form and none deserve to be dropped at this point, but inevitably Gawn makes the team a lot stronger, as does Hogan, but we can't play them all. 

I don't actually think I want to see TMac play in defence, at least while Oscar is improving... but can't see a role for him up forward with the other guys in the team, but then again he is one of the club leaders. TMac and Pedo are now fighting for the same spot in the team, and Pedo is more natural as the FWD/Ruck... So unless we come up against a team with three talls in in attack... which other than GWS and WCE (when Kennedy is fit) which have such a set up... 

Glad I don't have to select the team... just get to provide an opinion 

Great points

makes you wonder how we would line up if Weed also started pressing for selection

Pedo or T mac.... very difficult ... then again the form of O mac is not a given based on 1.5 good games

 

20 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Great points

makes you wonder how we would line up if Weed also started pressing for selection

Pedo or T mac.... very difficult ... then again the form of O mac is not a given based on 1.5 good games

 

At least we hopefully can allow Weed to develop and gain confidence at Casey for most of the remainder of the season, hopefully to create selection headaches next year 

Max back makes us for more dangerous inside the forward 50. It allows Pedo to be a target and crash packs, and gives us an option of putting Gawn forward who is a solid mark.

Our forwardline set up is going to be potent once we get some more bodies back.

Max can also drop back into defence to block Darling etc