And for the record, I agree he showed great improvement in certain areas in the first half of the Hawthorn game.

He was genuinely making a positive impact in contests and turning them into wins rather than floating about in an insignificant way.

His kicking is usually very good. His defending needs improving along with his general intensity, body positioning, reflexes and awareness.

Hopefully he can go on with it on Tuesday night.

18 hours ago, jnrmac said:

You misunderstand what STMJ said. He said there is a reason some players draw ire from supporters. It doesn't come from thin air.

Are you seriously trying to compare Lever with Oscar because they are the same age? I have heard everything.

And BTW , Watts was well over 22, so was Jamie Bennell when he was a whipping boy as you call it. 

??

I understood perfectly. I DISAGREED. I'll explain again. I understand some players draw ire from supporters. What I'm saying is that that sentiment is to be ignored, as it's unreliable.

I've been around long enough to know that groupthink isn't to be trusted. You think Oscar cops it harshly? Demonland might not have been as well populated back then but Jamar copped it from literally everyone on here. Went on to be an All Australian. Similarly, players like Rivers were great when they started and went on to do sweet f/a. But on demonland, because they'd been decorated early in their careers, they were defended from criticism. Do you follow?

What? Come on jnr, you're better than this. Read it again. You understand what implication means, right? I'm not comparing the quality of the players. I'm highlighting the fact that both have played a month of one-on-one KP defending roles deep inside fifty. One (Oscar) has performed well and been trashed on here and elsewhere... the other has been woeful (Jake) and is defended because the dees faithful can't handle criticism when it comes to big-money deals going wrong. Do you see? I'm not comparing the players' quality (I reckon Jake will work out as the better overall player)... I'm IMPLYING that the public perception of them is wrong. You can do this with so many of the criticisms on here. In Oscar's case it's way out of whack. He's not a future AA, but he's doing well and building nicely. In other words he's a whipping boy unnecessarily, and the groupthink that led to him being one is wrong. Same as it was for Jack, Jamar, Nev.. the list goes on. STMJ is right. There IS a reason the public make whipping boys. They're STUPID. They SHOULD be aiming their anger at the MFC coaching group. But that's a different thread. 

Watts and Bennell? Oh for christs sake. Watts was over 22, whipping boy, and he was actually a pretty good player. Go back through all the #1 picks in history. Plenty of them aren't as good as Jack. And don't give me Bennell. He was never a whipping boy. I don't remember ever reading anything about him, TBH.

57 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You can argue that a player may be unfairly criticised, but you can't argue that the issue isn't there.

 

Not to barge in uninvited...

 

Maybe you can't. But you can argue whether or not the issue's are even worth raising. I don't see it as any different to the age old question of "some players take longer than others." You can point out faults in nearly every player's game in that way. Having those faults isn't an indicator of future success though. Judd wasn't a good kick. TMac has woeful kicking skills. Similarly a kid like Harmes? Nothing on a football field he can't do. But does he do it? Not nearly as often as he should. Why? Because of his age, games experience, cumulative pre-seasons and the style of game he plays. In the context of their careers, the time for guys like him and ANB is NOW. Have they become whipping boys? Not at all. This "whipping boy" crowd have let them go largely unnoticed.

Yet a kid like Oscar who's at a relatively similar age and experience in terms of games played, and is playing a much harder one-on-one role that traditionally NO-ONE does well at within their first 100 games (Rance, anyone?)... is poleaxed here and elsewhere.

Anyway, you've heard all pro-Oscar and anti-Oscar rhetoric. It's been nothing but that for the whole time he's played seniors. The reason I've chimed in here is that (maybe for the first time) demonlanders are pointing the finger at themselves. What are WE doing right and wrong. For what it's worth, having been posting here for the last 15 years or so, when you look at the full scope of a player's career, the whipping boy "finding faults" mentality you raise is infuriatingly useless. And probably, in the end, only harmful to a kid's development. And in the end, so often the groupthink thing is just plain WRONG. Not taking aim at you and jnr and the regular posters here who love their footy and know what they're talking about, but holy smokes, some people just plain don't know footy. The Oscar "whipping-boy" thing is one of the better examples. He's doing exactly what he should be doing as a KP defender that's early in his career.

Has improved significantly across the board, well done to him, has been the one shining light down back in the first 4 rounds.

16 hours ago, Hot as Hell said:

Please. 

Oscar has been a roo in the spotlight because he was played way too young, deserving his pick 52 or 53 draft position. 

Despite embarrassing performances week after week he was persevered with. Thank God that stage appears over. 

I said last week was his best game for Melbourne amongst a side that played very poorly. 

I am unable to determine whether last week's game was a reflection of a hapless backline that elevated his performance, or a genuine break out game.

I attended every Melbourne based game last year and regularly tracked his on field movement away from the ball. Believe me, l did not see much brilliance or ball reading skill. 

I want every player we have on our list to succeed, to make us strong.

The jury is well and truly still out on Oscar in my view. One good game in a 67 point loss does not make a player special. 

I understand he has many fan boys on this site, so my view is the minority view.

Nevertheless l have seen way too much VFL/AFL football in 6 decades to be swayed by the views of one eyed fans or coach's favorites that have kept us as cellar dwellers for most of the last 54 years. 

 

Honestly mate, if you couldn't see the improvement in Oscar last year, you weren't looking.

im in a competition involving the best 5 in our B and F. Tips are made pre season. I tipped him to finish 5th. One other guy predicted 4th.

 Let's  be honest about it! Most of the morons on this site who were desparate for us to get Lever, envisaged Lever tipping Oscar out of the team. In doing so, they demonstrated that they'd never watched an Adelaide match. Lever was never obliged to man an opponent. Oscar does it every match he plays 

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

Honestly mate, if you couldn't see the improvement in Oscar last year, you weren't looking.

im in a competition involving the best 5 in our B and F. Tips are made pre season. I tipped him to finish 5th. One other guy predicted 4th.

 Let's  be honest about it! Most of the morons on this site who were desparate for us to get Lever, envisaged Lever tipping Oscar out of the team. In doing so, they demonstrated that they'd never watched an Adelaide match. Lever was never obliged to man an opponent. Oscar does it every match he plays 

Oscar came equal 18th in the B&F with Pederson and played 5 more games.

The talk on here about Oscar improving out of sight and being our key defender is hilarious. He has played OK this year and hasn't disgraced himself at all but he is still a deer in the headlights, has little or no physical presence or awareness, cannot compete one on one, is slow with the turning circle of the titanic and rarely impacts a contest. His disposal is pretty good and that is about his best trait. Yes he is developing and that is great. As a melbourne supporter I want him to succeed but it will be a long slow process at this rate.

 

2 hours ago, Farmer said:

Honestly mate, if you couldn't see the improvement in Oscar last year, you weren't looking.

im in a competition involving the best 5 in our B and F. Tips are made pre season. I tipped him to finish 5th. One other guy predicted 4th.

 Let's  be honest about it! Most of the morons on this site who were desparate for us to get Lever, envisaged Lever tipping Oscar out of the team. In doing so, they demonstrated that they'd never watched an Adelaide match. Lever was never obliged to man an opponent. Oscar does it every match he plays 

I will back my 2 eyes, my brain and my judgement every time and stand by my words. 

I a surely concede l am not an AFL coach, but l have seen 100s of talented VFL/AFL players. 

At the moment Oscar earns his spot, all credit to him. In my book he should have to earn that right each week.

Those that believe JKH is an AFL footballer would receive a similar response if he ever got a game. But he ain't a coach's favorite, so we don't need to bother. 

10 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You can argue that a player may be unfairly criticised, but you can't argue that the issue isn't there.

Oh yes I can.

Exhibit A, the Bandwagon Effect:

"As people come to believe in something, others "hop on the bandwagon" regardless of the underlying evidence."

And there's plenty more where that came from. The work of 3 Nobel Prize winners, Herbert Simon, Daniel Kahneman (with Amos Tversky), and Richard Thaler, comes to mind. We are, as Dan Ariely pointed out, predictably irrational.

8 hours ago, Farmer said:

Honestly mate, if you couldn't see the improvement in Oscar last year, you weren't looking.

im in a competition involving the best 5 in our B and F. Tips are made pre season. I tipped him to finish 5th. One other guy predicted 4th.

 Let's  be honest about it! Most of the morons on this site who were desparate for us to get Lever, envisaged Lever tipping Oscar out of the team. In doing so, they demonstrated that they'd never watched an Adelaide match. Lever was never obliged to man an opponent. Oscar does it every match he plays 

Love Oscar. Big ask at such an age and experience level. He will be better than rance 

8 hours ago, Farmer said:

Honestly mate, if you couldn't see the improvement in Oscar last year, you weren't looking.

im in a competition involving the best 5 in our B and F. Tips are made pre season. I tipped him to finish 5th. One other guy predicted 4th.

 Let's  be honest about it! Most of the morons on this site who were desparate for us to get Lever, envisaged Lever tipping Oscar out of the team. In doing so, they demonstrated that they'd never watched an Adelaide match. Lever was never obliged to man an opponent. Oscar does it every match he plays 

not looking with an open viewpoint.  looking thru a glass onion. 

so many can't see, what they do not want to see. the forward who maybe a defender in waiting.  or the defender who maybe a wingman?

17 minutes ago, Dirts said:

Love Oscar. Big ask at such an age and experience level. He will be better than rance 

 

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Oh yes I can.

Exhibit A, the Bandwagon Effect:

"As people come to believe in something, others "hop on the bandwagon" regardless of the underlying evidence."

And there's plenty more where that came from. The work of 3 Nobel Prize winners, Herbert Simon, Daniel Kahneman (with Amos Tversky), and Richard Thaler, comes to mind. We are, as Dan Ariely pointed out, predictably irrational.

Ross Lyon just asked for your number !

10 hours ago, Dirts said:

Love Oscar. Big ask at such an age and experience level. He will be better than rance 

Well......

I'll be circumspect and hope you're right. 

They play very differently though. Rance is all about mano a mano , Oscar ... I'm not sure how he'd be described in style...but not Rance like. 

I actually found myself saying ( against poos) thankgod for Oscar.

This then brought to the surface a number of things. Firstly we we playing that badly that Oscar stood out ( as he wasn't )  and secondly, though similarly our defence structure and makeup is pox at present. 

I think ill describe Oscars game as meat and 3 veg. Its ok. He alone was ok down there with pig and lever having little influence. 

Oscar is still far from brilliant. Possibly he's now hindered because he's instructed to play a certain way. ( By the by...not the best way ..but thats coaching and not down to McDonald )

In my view he's stepped up from useless to somewhat adequate in a fashion.

He was our best defender on the day. What a damning indictment !!

How many player can be in top 10 in BnF, the argument put forward by posters who want to put down a playe referring to that players BnF result to make there point is lazy and short sighted, many have the  opinion if you're not in a top 10 of the best and fairest you're no good that's just ridiculous, it's had for a fullback to get a top 10.

Oscar has been immense all season and just held Daniher goalless.  Flogged the pants off him.

How about an apology from Gary Lyon who a couple of weeks ago incorrectly stated Oscar was struggling and needed to lift.  He clearly doesn't watch Melbourne games.

Edited April 29, 20186 yr by Petraccattack

Egg on the face of a lot of people who bagged the [censored] out of him here too....

On 4/22/2018 at 9:55 PM, Dirts said:

Love Oscar. Big ask at such an age and experience level. He will be better than rance 

I doubt he will get the same free kicks as him.

i went to Collingwood V Richmond today and Oscar could only dream of umpiring so favourable.

Oscar has come up nicely.  He'll been a lynchpin for years to com.e

Will be interesting to see how long it takes you know who, to drop into this thread and offer his thoughts/apologise.

OMc is holding players really well, look forward to hopefully seeing him add and some attack/rebound to his game.

OMac would have to be the most improved player on the team. I would like to see some of you guys try and play on the best forward each week. 

7 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

OMac would have to be the most improved player on the team. I would like to see some of you guys try and play on the best forward each week. 

Im not sure it matters how well WE would play Jibroni. Im 57 and couldnt complete the warm up without fatiguing lol. But Oscar is turning into a super reliable player . His decision making and marking has gone through the roof. Shows you why its worth perservering with youth sometimes. Hoping Weid is in the same boat.

7 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Im not sure it matters how well WE would play Jibroni. Im 57 and couldnt complete the warm up without fatiguing lol. But Oscar is turning into a super reliable player . His decision making and marking has gone through the roof. Shows you why its worth perservering with youth sometimes. Hoping Weid is in the same boat.

Oscar is holding down fullback and doing pretty well each week. He has improved significantly from last year and becoming reliable. If he continues to improve at the current rate, he will become a top fullback.

On 4/23/2018 at 9:02 AM, beelzebub said:

Well......

I'll be circumspect and hope you're right. 

They play very differently though. Rance is all about mano a mano , Oscar ... I'm not sure how he'd be described in style...but not Rance like. 

I actually found myself saying ( against poos) thankgod for Oscar.

This then brought to the surface a number of things. Firstly we we playing that badly that Oscar stood out ( as he wasn't )  and secondly, though similarly our defence structure and makeup is pox at present. 

I think ill describe Oscars game as meat and 3 veg. Its ok. He alone was ok down there with pig and lever having little influence. 

Oscar is still far from brilliant. Possibly he's now hindered because he's instructed to play a certain way. ( By the by...not the best way ..but thats coaching and not down to McDonald )

In my view he's stepped up from useless to somewhat adequate in a fashion.

He was our best defender on the day. What a damning indictment !!

How did he go today mate?

I was doubtful early in his career but so happy for the kid now, defied everyone and become a general down back. Easily our most consistent this year and rarely beaten.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:44 PM, Hot as Hell said:

I will back my 2 eyes, my brain and my judgement every time and stand by my words. 

I a surely concede l am not an AFL coach, but l have seen 100s of talented VFL/AFL players. 

At the moment Oscar earns his spot, all credit to him. In my book he should have to earn that right each week.

Those that believe JKH is an AFL footballer would receive a similar response if he ever got a game. But he ain't a coach's favorite, so we don't need to bother. 

What did your two eyes, your brain, and  your  judgment tell you about his game todsy? Or his game against Riewoldt on Tuesday?