POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

We are on the right track, make no mistake.

Being at the game and witnessing the 3rd qtr, I gave us absolutely no chance to win the game such was Freos dominance that qtr. That we got back in front gives me enormous belief, we would have rolled over under similar circumstances, even last year.

As many have eluded to, the result came down to leadership. Goody has made it clear he doesn't want to use our youthful team as an excuse, but it is glaringly obvious that is why we lost this game. The inconsistency we showed during this game is what happens to young teams.

J Lewis is our most important player this year. Even without Hogan and Gawn, we`d have won if he played.

[Dante 2,739]

One who gets overlooked in all of this is Kent, I think he needs to do more and his lack of tackles and goals is a worry, he has pace but does he have the skills and does he do anywhere enough, he's played 54 games and averages 1 goal and 2 tackles a game. He's got speed and a certain toughness but I think he needs to do a lot more to keep his automatic place in the side.

It was mentioned earlier that if he had a right foot he would have been able to get the ball to Jack for a goal, but his effort was abysmal, that was a gimmee and it was stuffed up.

I'd just like to know what it is he adds that allows him to escape the criticism that ANB and a few others cop on here.

 

 

[Tracca 853]

1 hour ago, Dante said:

One who gets overlooked in all of this is Kent, I think he needs to do more and his lack of tackles and goals is a worry, he has pace but does he have the skills and does he do anywhere enough, he's played 54 games and averages 1 goal and 2 tackles a game. He's got speed and a certain toughness but I think he needs to do a lot more to keep his automatic place in the side.

It was mentioned earlier that if he had a right foot he would have been able to get the ball to Jack for a goal, but his effort was abysmal, that was a gimmee and it was stuffed up.

I'd just like to know what it is he adds that allows him to escape the criticism that ANB and a few others cop on here.

 

I think because he hasnt had a proper run at it, hes constantly injured. I would like to see him string together 12-15 games and see what his output is like then. He has the frame to make it and he definitely has the skills.

 

[Dante 2,739]

34 minutes ago, Tracca said:

 

He played 20 games last year, that's a pretty fair block of games.

 

[Tracca 853]

43 minutes ago, Dante said:

He played 20 games last year, that's a pretty fair block of games.

 

Was his first full (ish) season hes ever had with us, and also his first pre season. Id say he did quite well based on that

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

8 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

J Lewis is our most important player this year. Even without Hogan and Gawn, we`d have won if he played.

We'd have won if we KICKED STRAIGHT.

Seems like every week, we have some casual shots on goal early, and miss them.

Does this club believe in a thing called scoreboard pressure?

Why worry about the first shot on goal, or the second, or the third ... if you think you're going to get 30 tilts at it?

Trouble is, at 1.4 to 2.0, the scoreboard pressure is on us!

 

Seven goals to nothing in 3rd quarter ... bad. Not icing the match in the last 2 minutes ... bad.

Neither one a factor if we KICKED STRAIGHT in the first place.

[low flying Robbo 979]

18 hours ago, Males said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but did anyone else think that Walters? marking attempt, when they got their last goal, was unrealistic? Took out TMac and didn't get close to the ball.

I'm amazed there was no mention by the commentary team. He took his eyes off the ball and went for the player

[old dee 23,872]

3 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

We'd have won if we KICKED STRAIGHT.

Seems like every week, we have some casual shots on goal early, and miss them.

Does this club believe in a thing called scoreboard pressure?

Why worry about the first shot on goal, or the second, or the third ... if you think you're going to get 30 tilts at it?

Trouble is, at 1.4 to 2.0, the scoreboard pressure is on us!

 

Seven goals to nothing in 3rd quarter ... bad. Not icing the match in the last 2 minutes ... bad.

Neither one a factor if we KICKED STRAIGHT in the first place.

Spot on TF and it was the second week in a row.

[Demonsone 2,044]

Game lost in the 3rd qtr and gotta nail shots on goal and they had plenty of chances in the last qtr also!

Don't know why they were outnumbered in the backline when we grabbed the lead, thats defensive rule 101!

Edited April 18, 2017 by Hogan2014

[Adam The God 30,421]

9 hours ago, Dante said:

One who gets overlooked in all of this is Kent, I think he needs to do more and his lack of tackles and goals is a worry, he has pace but does he have the skills and does he do anywhere enough, he's played 54 games and averages 1 goal and 2 tackles a game. He's got speed and a certain toughness but I think he needs to do a lot more to keep his automatic place in the side.

It was mentioned earlier that if he had a right foot he would have been able to get the ball to Jack for a goal, but his effort was abysmal, that was a gimmee and it was stuffed up.

I'd just like to know what it is he adds that allows him to escape the criticism that ANB and a few others cop on here.

 

 

I completely agree. He's one that has never had me sold either. He has some great attributes, no doubt. He's fast, he's aggressive (when he wants to be), he's a penetrating kick (I won't say he's always an accurate kick) and he can kick goals. The problem is, as you've rightly pointed out, he doesn't do any of these things consistently enough. 

I know he's been injury riddled at times, but for a small forward, when I watch him, I see a player who is still very inconsistent and has a very narrow margin between his best and his worst. Bluntly, he can be a very lazy player.

He's not the only one who failed to tackle enough on the weekend, but he can be a barometer for our half forwards. If he's on, invariably others are on. As a 50 game half forward, I think we should be demanding more of him.

He has a good track record against Richmond and he also pulled his hamstring against them. I expect he'll be 'on' this weekend and I hope the coaching group turn up the heat on him big time. Hannan and ANB have less experience and are therefore more susceptible to inconsistency, but for me, effort and attack on the man is a prerequisite for any AFL player. A minimum of five tackles should be the benchmark and expectation of a Melbourne Football Club half forward. If they can't lay this, it tells me they're not working hard enough. It'll be interesting to see how our half forwards go this week.

[fr_ap 2,529]

23 minutes ago, A F said:

I completely agree. He's one that has never had me sold either. He has some great attributes, no doubt. He's fast, he's aggressive (when he wants to be), he's a penetrating kick (I won't say he's always an accurate kick) and he can kick goals. The problem is, as you've rightly pointed out, he doesn't do any of these things consistently enough. 

I know he's been injury riddled at times, but for a small forward, when I watch him, I see a player who is still very inconsistent and has a very narrow margin between his best and his worst. Bluntly, he can be a very lazy player.

He's not the only one who failed to tackle enough on the weekend, but he can be a barometer for our half forwards. If he's on, invariably others are on. As a 50 game half forward, I think we should be demanding more of him.

He has a good track record against Richmond and he also pulled his hamstring against them. I expect he'll be 'on' this weekend and I hope the coaching group turn up the heat on him big time. Hannan and ANB have less experience and are therefore more susceptible to inconsistency, but for me, effort and attack on the man is a prerequisite for any AFL player. A minimum of five tackles should be the benchmark and expectation of a Melbourne Football Club half forward. If they can't lay this, it tells me they're not working hard enough. It'll be interesting to see how our half forwards go this week.

Do you have any idea what a tackle is? Champion data only record a tackle if it results in a stoppage or free kick. Every other 'tackle' we see in a game is not - otherwise every other player would end up with 10+ every week. 

The stat in isolation means nothing, a chase down tackle/harass that doesnt result in a stoppage/FK is just as important and kent does a million of these a game. We shouldn't be aiming for stoppages in the HF line anyway, so his tackle numbers should never be massive. 

Hes a very important player, particularly since rd1 last year when he was fitter and setting the standard for pressure. Couple this with some goal sense, pace and toughness and a lovely kick on the run and its not hard to see why the FD rate him. 

And no, at 50 games we should not be demanding more. 

[Demonsone 2,044]

Afl 360- Mark Maclure made a very good point that our forwards tackling is very low and the ball comes out too easy....Which is what Roosy  was trying to build on, has this changed with Goodwin?

Would be good to see a stat comparison vs the other teams?

[Nasher 33,617]

On 19/04/2017 at 0:56 AM, fr_ap said:

Do you have any idea what a tackle is? Champion data only record a tackle if it results in a stoppage or free kick. Every other 'tackle' we see in a game is not - otherwise every other player would end up with 10+ every week. 

The stat in isolation means nothing, a chase down tackle/harass that doesnt result in a stoppage/FK is just as important and kent does a million of these a game. We shouldn't be aiming for stoppages in the HF line anyway, so his tackle numbers should never be massive. 

Hes a very important player, particularly since rd1 last year when he was fitter and setting the standard for pressure. Couple this with some goal sense, pace and toughness and a lovely kick on the run and its not hard to see why the FD rate him. 

And no, at 50 games we should not be demanding more. 

That was news to me. It almost makes the tackle stat redundant. I often wondered how so many players could make it through a whole AFL game without laying a tackle.

Do unrewarded tackles get recorded in any way? 1%ers?

[old55 23,705]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

That was news to me. It almost makes the tackle stat redundant. I often wondered how so many players could make it through a whole AFL game without laying a tackle.

Do unrewarded tackles get recorded in any way? 1%ers?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-is-the-definition-of-a-tackle.956406/

The AFL website provides definitions for statistics here (link now broken).
 

Tackle
When a player stops an opposition player with possession of the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the opposition's disposal. The tackler's action must change the course of play.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Fifty-5

[Nasher 33,617]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-is-the-definition-of-a-tackle.956406/

The AFL website provides definitions for statistics here (link now broken).
 

Tackle
When a player stops an opposition player with possession of the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the opposition's disposal. The tackler's action must change the course of play.

Thanks. That's a fair bit different to "causes a free kick or stoppage".

[old55 23,705]

On 4/19/2017 at 0:56 AM, fr_ap said:

Do you have any idea what a tackle is? Champion data only record a tackle if it results in a stoppage or free kick. Every other 'tackle' we see in a game is not - otherwise every other player would end up with 10+ every week. 

That simply cannot be correct because the total number of tackles per game far exceeds the sum of stoppages and free kicks.

[Adam The God 30,421]

So what we're saying is 5 tackles per game is an appropriate benchmark for a half forward?

[old55 23,705]

48 minutes ago, A F said:

So what we're saying is 5 tackles per game is an appropriate benchmark for a half forward?

It seems reasonable that par for every player should be at least 1 tackle per quarter - how hard is it?  That's 88 tackles minimum per game.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Pure footy on sen haa just mentioned that we once again had the youngest and 17th least experienced side to play rd 4.  

Now i dont like that stat to use it as a cop out thwt 3rd qtr was very poor. But it gives me conference we are on the right track and this a new Melbourne fc.

Maybe unlucky for us we dont have j howe anymore pointing fingers at underperformers..... some irony there Jeremy?