POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[old dee 23,495]

5 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

If is the key word here and I know thats why they played him. Its a juggling act at best but a player can also go downhill if crushed each week. Look how long it took Watts to recover from his premature entry to the big time.

 

Spot on deever. 

He is at mininium  a year off AFL level.

Edited April 15, 2017 by old dee

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

I rarely read this thread but it was a gutting game and I wanted to get peoples take. 

Let's be clear.  We didn't lose because one player made one mistake, we lost for macro reasons.  Freo are much better than people have given them credit for, they've got back a wonderful ruckman and one of the game very elite players.  Those players feed another strength which is their outside run and this is where we lost today.  They ran harder and spread harder than us and could easily go from one end of the ground to the other.  We couldn't.  For those kicking Vince I'd guess most of you weren't at the ground.  For almost all the game Freo had us covered both down the line and stopped us switching.  Yes Bernie made some mistakes but it seems that people always want to pick on the mistake in a 25 disposal game and not balance that with the good he did.  All day we had few if any easy options coming out of the backline and the final quarter was no different.

Weed missed a simple goal but so did a number of others when there was much less pressure.  He's not ready and I'm yet to see him play an AFL quality game other than his first which may have passed.  He was very ordinary in the JLT and hasn't fired a shot in three games.  But I doubt Smith would have done better particularly when you look at the way the ball was delivered.

And of course there is the pretty obvious reason that while 22 were toiling away on the field two of our best players, one irreplaceable, were sitting in the stands watching.  Lewis you can almost cover but we are awful up forward without Hogan particularly when Watts relieves in the ruck. We also desperately missed Hogan coming out of defence as a lead up target and to be honest I didn't realize how much until today. These two have cost the club big time, by the end of the season it may well be a finals spot.  How they can look their teammates in the face I don't know.

But forget the micro incidents, we lost for macro reasons.  What is evident is we lack a player able to turn the game and if we've half a brain we should be chasing Fyfe or Martin (or both) with every effort we can muster.

[pinkshark 948]

1 hour ago, Forest Demon said:

I'm as gutted as anyone, but just to keep some perspective, we have played some very good footy this year, with some very good players out of the side.

We lost this game in one quarter today, we threw the win away last week against a top 4 side. 

Doesn't excuse it, but just a reminder that it is an even comp and we are right in the mix if we can keep it all together and get that consistency.

A voice of reason amongst an absolute madhouse,

[John Dee 445]

This was a game we could have, should have, won. Had that happened, it would have papered over the abysmal third quarter, and got the players ahead of themselves. Whilst I, as a supporter who goes to the footy, would have liked to win, it is, methinks, a good game to have lost. That third quarter and the misses by Viney and Weideman, in particular, need to stick in the craw.

[old dee 23,495]

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I rarely read this thread but it was a gutting game and I wanted to get peoples take. 

Let's be clear.  We didn't lose because one player made one mistake, we lost for macro reasons.  Freo are much better than people have given them credit for, they've got back a wonderful ruckman and one of the game very elite players.  Those players feed another strength which is their outside run and this is where we lost today.  They ran harder and spread harder than us and could easily go from one end of the ground to the other.  We couldn't.  For those kicking Vince I'd guess most of you weren't at the ground.  For almost all the game Freo had us covered both down the line and stopped us switching.  Yes Bernie made some mistakes but it seems that people always want to pick on the mistake in a 25 disposal game and not balance that with the good he did.  All day we had few if any easy options coming out of the backline and the final quarter was no different.

Weed missed a simple goal but so did a number of others when there was much less pressure.  He's not ready and I'm yet to see him play an AFL quality game other than his first which may have passed.  He was very ordinary in the JLT and hasn't fired a shot in three games.  But I doubt Smith would have done better particularly when you look at the way the ball was delivered.

And of course there is the pretty obvious reason that while 22 were toiling away on the field two of our best players, one irreplaceable, were sitting in the stands watching.  Lewis you can almost cover but we are awful up forward without Hogan particularly when Watts relieves in the ruck. We also desperately missed Hogan coming out of defence as a lead up target and to be honest I didn't realize how much until today. These two have cost the club big time, by the end of the season it may well be a finals spot.  How they can look their teammates in the face I don't know.

But forget the micro incidents, we lost for macro reasons.  What is evident is we lack a player able to turn the game and if we've half a brain we should be chasing Fyfe or Martin (or both) with every effort we can muster.

I would suggest VP that is impossible to imagine Smith playing worse.

[Soidee 1,496]

My first posting for the season.  I was there today unfortunately, and again the MFC team including coaches lost a game on our home turf that we should have won.  This nonsense does untold damage to the brand we are trying to build. 

Membership will continue at a snails pace, sponsors will look closely at our weakness as an onfield team, and the media are just in the pounce position to give to us as a club.

off field Jackson cannot do anymore, he is doing his level best.  It's the mindset of players who STILL have no killer instinct as top teams do.

they just screwed themselves up the bum yet again against a team rebuilding from interstate.  I will watch them play as I do, but with no expectations now, I'm simply fatigued with the garbage rhetoric from the club.  

This club cannot handle expectations no matter who is coach.  Poor poor result today, totally fed up.

[Lucifers Hero 38,984]

Kudos to Jake Spencer!

He more than did his job today.  Was competitive.  Took important marks.  Kicked 2 goals.  One of our most consistent and best today.  No Max was not the reason we lost.  Loved the way the players got around Jake when he kicked his goal. 

That game would be a real confidence boost for him.  If he does no more than today he will be an asset for us.

[Adam The God 29,389]

5 hours ago, Jaded said:

No leadership. Again. 

Senior players gave us nothing today except Watts who was pretty exceptional. 

It's a real shame when with 3 minutes to go, game in the balance, you have Hannan and Salem and Oliver in the square.

I think this is the big one. Leadership was atrocious today. Jones had an ordinary game. As did Viney. Tom McDonald was terrible. 

This all said, had Kent been able to kick on his non preferred foot, something they've practiced all pre season, that score would have snapped the momentum in the third and I think we would have won the game. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by A F

[Dee Zephyr 19,158]

I am cut up like most on here but we lost the game in that woeful third quarter.  It's as simple as that for me. 

[titan_uranus 24,627]

6 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

He knows how to get easy possessions. Doesn't take first option, doesn't hit an option when he does take an option, doesn't defend with intent. Will not be starting 22 by years end. 

Tyson's making a lot of mistakes, sure, but who is his replacement. Brayshaw?

1 minute ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I rarely read this thread but it was a gutting game and I wanted to get peoples take. 

Let's be clear.  We didn't lose because one player made one mistake, we lost for macro reasons.  Freo are much better than people have given them credit for, they've got back a wonderful ruckman and one of the game very elite players.  Those players feed another strength which is their outside run and this is where we lost today.  They ran harder and spread harder than us and could easily go from one end of the ground to the other.  We couldn't.  For those kicking Vince I'd guess most of you weren't at the ground.  For almost all the game Freo had us covered both down the line and stopped us switching.  Yes Bernie made some mistakes but it seems that people always want to pick on the mistake in a 25 disposal game and not balance that with the good he did.  All day we had few if any easy options coming out of the backline and the final quarter was no different.

Weed missed a simple goal but so did a number of others when there was much less pressure.  He's not ready and I'm yet to see him play an AFL quality game other than his first which may have passed.  He was very ordinary in the JLT and hasn't fired a shot in three games.  But I doubt Smith would have done better particularly when you look at the way the ball was delivered.

And of course there is the pretty obvious reason that while 22 were toiling away on the field two of our best players, one irreplaceable, were sitting in the stands watching.  Lewis you can almost cover but we are awful up forward without Hogan particularly when Watts relieves in the ruck. We also desperately missed Hogan coming out of defence as a lead up target and to be honest I didn't realize how much until today. These two have cost the club big time, by the end of the season it may well be a finals spot.  How they can look their teammates in the face I don't know.

But forget the micro incidents, we lost for macro reasons.  What is evident is we lack a player able to turn the game and if we've half a brain we should be chasing Fyfe or Martin (or both) with every effort we can muster.

I'm genuinely serious about this - what was the good Vince did? I was there and I honestly cannot say I felt Vince added anything good to the game. And as for the mistakes, it's one thing to lay off ANB with his backwards turnover last week but not only is Vince a leader, but he made a similar mistake last year against Gold Coast. He should know better and IMO it's completely fair to criticise him for those fourth quarter errors.

As to the Hogan/Lewis thing, whilst there's obviously no doubt their absence hurt us, we should have won both games we played without them. We did more than enough today to win the game and, whilst clearly it might have been more of a certainty or easier with them, we should have been 6+ goals up at half time and we should have held onto our lead in the fourth.

[bing181 8,947]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

I would suggest VP that is impossible to imagine Smith playing worse.

So Smith, who in his one game had 6 disposals, is your answer to why we lost?

Step away from the keyboard OD.

[von 1,498]

9 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

If is the key word here and I know thats why they played him. Its a juggling act at best but a player can also go downhill if crushed each week. Look how long it took Watts to recover from his premature entry to the big time.

 

That's true. It seems a fine line. I think with hogan in he will get away with more than he was allowed today. The problem i see is our forward line is very short without hogan and weideman. 

[Socrates 45]

Jack Grimes is stiff.............He would offer more than Melksham.

[pinkshark 948]

6 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

We find out if Goody and his men are mentally tough enough and have right skill set  next week.

There are no excuses,we can't afford to be 2-3.IMO we must win next week and  we need to win big to restore some faith to the membership who by their numbers have shown their support.

Selection and performance completely unacceptable two weeks in a row. Jackson needs an explanation and commitment to fix.

Goody now batting at 50% and that doesn't get you to finals.

 

Completely unacceptable!  Forgetting where we came from?

[Adam The God 29,389]

1 hour ago, Abe said:

I am concerned about Simon goodwins coaching.

I'm not sure if you're taking the [censored], mate, but there was certainly a really poor piece of management at the second last centre bounce for the game. We had Oliver on the wing. Why the hell would we not have a guy who had 10 clearances in the middle for that all important centre break? Viney had just kicked the goal to put us back in front. It should have been Jones, Viney and Oliver in the middle. Really poor organisation.

[Waltham33 475]

The only thing that changes at this club is the names and faces. Say what you like, this is a loss that no team going places has.

[Ted Lasso 18,783]

Just now, A F said:

I'm not sure if you're taking the [censored], mate, but there was certainly a really poor piece of management at the second last centre bounce for the game. We had Oliver on the wing. Why the hell would we not have a guy who had 10 clearances in the middle for that all important centre break? Viney had just kicked the goal to put us back in front. It should have been Jones, Viney and Oliver in the middle. Really poor organisation.

Just heat of the moment comment to be honest mate 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, Socrates said:

Jack Grimes is stiff.............He would offer more than Melksham.

No, he wouldn't.

I love this place after a loss.  It just gets more and more ridiculous.  Here, I can do it too:

Cale Morton is stiff....... He would offer more than Dean Kent.

[gregdemon 622]

New to the forum.     Seething with anger over today.     Thought this year was going to be different  but appears not.    Losing to Freo at the G      GIVE ME STRENGTH !!!!

 

but of course I  will front up next week    ...............         weekend SHATTERED  big time.      

[titan_uranus 24,627]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

No, he wouldn't.

I love this place after a loss.  It just gets more and more ridiculous.  Here, I can do it too:

Cale Morton is stiff....... He would offer more than Dean Kent.

Are you defending Melksham or just noting Grimes is long past it?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

Are you defending Melksham or just noting Grimes is long past it?

I don't even know anymore, titan.  I really don't.

Edit - in all seriousness, it was more about Grimes being past it and this revisionist thinking that I hate.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Wiseblood

[defuture15 891]

19 minutes ago, von said:

All fair points. Does weideman develop faster in the vfl? Also next to hogan is he a liability at all? Pederson and smith aren't key forwards in my mind. They are third forwards in an average side to me. Weideman is a strong second forward if developed correctly. Hogans ability and form straight out of the gates is almost miraculous. It doesn't happen. I wonder if we expect more from weideman because of this.

I think the main issue is thst the VFL hasnt started yet. This means that weids may as well play as the others have been injured or not playing in the JLT etc. He will be good when he can outbody his opponent and he usually kicks beautifully. Time to replace him with Hogan this week

[Earl Hood 6,057]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

I would suggest VP that is impossible to imagine Smith playing worse.

Agree we stuffed up at selection. Weid had a shocker against the Cats and if Pedo is underdone then I thought Smith should have got a second game, if only to add some muscle to a very light forward set up and give him another chance to pick up the tempo of AFL. 

[Dockett 32 1,237]

5 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Completely unacceptable!  Forgetting where we came from?

We have been led to believe we aren't there anymore.

Next week tells the story.

[Goffer 256]

17 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Don't get carried away now Goffer.  

 

Carried away? I'm fed up with the [censored] from the club, we have been rubbish for years and watching arrogance like they displayed today (they've no reason to be arrogant, they've achieved nothing yet) is galling. It really annoys me, talk about 'journey' etc when we can't put away middle of the road teams at home. Even worse will be the week of shite to put up with at work