Elephants in the room! x 2

[picket fence 17,142]

Gee  another bloke Baggin Oscar!!

Who would have thought that??

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

Viney had 30 pressure acts. 2nd most behind Watts funnily enough. Limited Dangerfield to very little influence for 3 quarters. Limped off in the last.

He's not 100% coming back from hip surgery and I wouldn't worry much at all about how he's playing or the captaincy. 

His round 1 game was very decent as well in a similar role - clearances, pressure, limit Jack Steven.

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

5 minutes ago, Dante said:

So, currently, who would you replace Tyson with?

Brayshaw, and rotate ANB, Gus, Harmes and Petracca even Bernie and Salem all in stints through the midfield instead of Tyson sucking up minutes there and unable to impact in other ways.

[picket fence 17,142]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Viney had 30 pressure acts. 2nd most behind Watts funnily enough. Limited Dangerfield to very little influence for 3 quarters. Limped off in the last.

He's not 100% coming back from hip surgery and I wouldn't worry much at all about how he's playing or the captaincy. 

His round 1 game was very decent as well in a similar role - clearances, pressure, limit Jack Steven.

You are kidding me!?? Pressure acts?? The footballing equivalent to "Best Clubman" awards at the end of the year in under 12 footy!

Dangerfield KILLED us today no more no less! 3 Goals, won hard ball, broke tackles, did it all, 

Pressure acts?? A panacea for finding a stat that amounts to nothing! Especially when you are Captain!

[WERRIDEE 5,472]

Just now, picket fence said:

You are kidding me!?? Pressure acts?? The footballing equivalent to "Best Clubman" awards at the end of the year in under 12 footy!

Dangerfield KILLED us today no more no less! 3 Goals, won hard ball, broke tackles, did it all, 

Pressure acts?? A panacea for finding a stat that amounts to nothing! Especially when you are Captain!

To be fair on Viney Danger kills everyone.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Yes only been captain for 3 matches and Not ready for it!

Also, this forum exists so that fair views can be aired. If I want to start a thread I will!! 

Have a look in the mirror some time champ, Look who really thinks their opinions are more valid! LOL

Picket, I choose to read your posts with a Donald Trump voice, and they make soooooo much more sense. 

Thanks for sharing! 

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Viney had 30 pressure acts. 2nd most behind Watts funnily enough. Limited Dangerfield to very little influence for 3 quarters. Limped off in the last.

He's not 100% coming back from hip surgery and I wouldn't worry much at all about how he's playing or the captaincy. 

His round 1 game was very decent as well in a similar role - clearances, pressure, limit Jack Steven.

This all good and well, but trying to headbutt every opponent's belly button when he gets an inside ball is getting a little tiresome. There were a few times tonight he had ample time to make a disposal but chose to take on the world with the top of his scone.

I agree he's looking a bit underdone, but Would love to see some more effective ball use (and make set-shots Timmy from Thomastown could kick). 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Was AVERAGE

Agree he hasn't been anywhere near his best in these first 3 matches. May need a rethink and complete review of where he's at and going. The current method/style is just not effective enough for long enough.

Tyson also had a mare, apart from a few cameos in the last . Only his 2nd match but was a real concern out there tonight. Had no impact at all.

[picket fence 17,142]

Just now, Deemented Are Go! said:

This all good and well, but trying to headbutt every opponent's belly button when he gets an inside ball is getting a little tiresome. There were a few times tonight he had ample time to make a disposal but chose to take on the world with the top of his scone.

I agree he's looking a bit underdone, but Would love to see some more effective ball use (and make set-shots Timmy from Thomastown could kick). 

And this is exactly what I have been saying for a while. He takes everyone on and agree headbuts tummies. Dare I say it.. a very limited player!

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are kidding me!?? Pressure acts?? The footballing equivalent to "Best Clubman" awards at the end of the year in under 12 footy!

Dangerfield KILLED us today no more no less! 3 Goals, won hard ball, broke tackles, did it all, 

Pressure acts?? A panacea for finding a stat that amounts to nothing! Especially when you are Captain!

The best player in the comp was reduced to a few quality highlights for most of the 2nd and 3rd quarters. If you didn't see that I'm not sure what you are watching. 

The pressure act statistic can be a furphy but more times than not it's an accurate reflection on which players are involved in the contest in more ways than just their disposals. 

The last quarter showed what Danger can do when given time and space. The 2nd and 3rd quarter was nothing like that.

[bing181 9,218]

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

You are kidding me!?? Pressure acts??

Yes, difficult when the stats don't confirm your biases.

Viney was fine, and will be. Needs to be judged on the long term, both as a player and captain. Let's see where he is 3+ years down the track.

[mrtwister 652]

It looked to me like Dangerfield was on cruise control for the first half. Don't think they even had him at centre bounces much either, seemed to be forward more. Turned it on every now and then but seemed to be saving himself for the last quarter. Then, whooshka, centre clearances everywhere.

I couldn't believe people had Tyson in their bests last week. He butchered plenty of his possessions and handed a couple of crucial balls back to Carlton at important stages. He was a real momentum crusher last week. This week, he just seemed to fall behind a lot. I'd give Bugg a run and rotate somebody else through the middle. Give Petracca more time in there. Or even Salem.

 

[picket fence 17,142]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

The best player in the comp was reduced to a few quality highlights for most of the 2nd and 3rd quarters. If you didn't see that I'm not sure what you are watching. 

The pressure act statistic can be a furphy but more times than not it's an accurate reflection on which players are involved in the contest in more ways than just their disposals. 

The last quarter showed what Danger can do when given time and space. The 2nd and 3rd quarter was nothing like that.

What I saw today was a great player effortlessly shrugging tackles and setting up play! I also saw Viney doing none of this. (IMV and what do I know) , If I were Goodwin I would be demanding that he takes 1st option next week !

[picket fence 17,142]

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Yes, difficult when the stats don't confirm your biases.

Viney was fine, and will be. Needs to be judged on the long term, both as a player and captain. Let's see where he is 3+ years down the track.

Nup, not having it!  We picked two before ready captains in Trengove and Grimes and look what happened!?

Edited April 8, 2017 by picket fence

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

[bing181 9,218]

11 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Nup, not having it!  We picked two before ready captains in Trengove and Grimes and look what happened!?

Of course you're not having it, that's how confirmation bias works. You pluck out one example that on the surface confirms your point, and ignore all the instances that contradict it such as a) any number of successful captains who were young and b) any number of teams with co-captains - certainly hasn't hurt the Swans who have a long history of co-captains, and this season we're one of 3 clubs with co-captains.

Finally, there's no causal link between Viney's form and the co-captaincy. His current form, such as it is, could be due to any number of factors. You've picked on the one that suits your prejudice.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

21 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

If he did it must have been the shortest course ever Fire!

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[deespicable me 1,486]

9 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

Come on guys, stop attacking our core senior players, they all have weaknesses that will sometimes get exposed, especially against quality opposition. Watts took an overhead mark in the last qtr on the wing when he was important getting us a win last week against Carlton. He tried hard today and did a good job in the absence of Max and shouldn't be criticised at all. He was stuffed before the final siren. We tired badly tonight. Oliver is brilliant but had no impact in the last. Harmes is frustrating as anyone. His turn-overs in the last were awful but then he does something good and you think he might just make it. Petracca has a long way to go. 

There is one or two guys who we all should be upset with tonight though. Because they weren't out there in an important game that we should've could've won. The rest tried hard for the club and us.

 

[Skuit 10,031]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

So much dribble keyboarded

Brilliant. This goes straight into my kitbag of internet slags.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,819]

Weideman is the biggest underperformer in the team by far at present.  1 kick, 4 handballs,  1 mark and 1 tackle is nowhere near acceptable.  Pedesen must be back in the team ahead of Weideman now.  Weideman keeping his place in the side after two average to poor games first up, then an absolute shocker is bad for team culture - reeks of the gifting games to high draft picks that the club did so well to get away from.

I can't even  see how it's doing him any good developmentally or confidence wise to continue to play him in his present form.

[Adam The God 30,220]

4 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Viney was better today.  No doubt he's taken a few weeks to get going, but he still had 25 touches and 8 tackles today.  Not exactly a bad day out.  It's easy to be harsh on his performances though as he's set the bar rather high.  He will continue to get better as the season goes on.

Yep, slightly better, but still way off the pace. He was coming from a low base. There was a moment today where Oliver dished out to Viney in a bit of space, who then had Jones in plenty of space. All Viney had to do was handball to Jones and we would have been off. Instead, he held the ball for what seemed like an eternity and was tackled, the ball spilled out and we lost our opportunity that should have been capitalised on.

Viney showed again he's quite slow to think. We also know the knock on his disposal. 

I think there's a very easy solution for Jack to get back into playing some good footy. Keep it simple. No hero footy, take the first option and he'll start to see some results. 

4 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Yep, all that noise abut watts coming back in poor shape ....apart from captain couragious (Jones not  Viney) he was the fittest on ground.

Elephant 3. Watts was always going to have to ruck despite Gawns injury which left weid (with 5 games) and smith (first gamer) up forward against a very strong defence , Geelong had Menzel and Hawkins (circa 300 games) who together booted 8 goals. Lucky Kent stepped up in his first game back. Spencer or Pedo should have been selected so Watts could replace Hogan as our main  full time forward. Weids isnt ready and while Im happy to give him game time, it was a bad call to carry 2  forwards today especially a first gamer.

Disagree. The MC was right in its decision to go small. They brought defensive pressure. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on had we converted multiple opportunities from 30m out directly in front. Even now, you've got no leg to stand on IMO. We would have won if not for the kicking at goal. I like Pedersen but he wasn't going to win it for us today. Our kicking at goal was. And it didn't.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

1 hour ago, deespicable me said:

Come on guys, stop attacking our core senior players, they all have weaknesses that will sometimes get exposed, especially against quality opposition. Watts took an overhead mark in the last qtr on the wing when he was important getting us a win last week against Carlton. He tried hard today and did a good job in the absence of Max and shouldn't be criticised at all. He was stuffed before the final siren. We tired badly tonight. Oliver is brilliant but had no impact in the last. Harmes is frustrating as anyone. His turn-overs in the last were awful but then he does something good and you think he might just make it. Petracca has a long way to go. 

There is one or two guys who we all should be upset with tonight though. Because they weren't out there in an important game that we should've could've won. The rest tried hard for the club and us.

 

I know it's harsh, and don't get me wrong, he was immense today. It's not an attack as such, but it's definitely accurate. He's been dropping those marks since day dot. It's his final frontier for me and he could have had a couple of shots on goal early that he wouldn't have missed.

Completely agree with what you've said, all players have weaknesses - but they can be overcome. Nate Jones kicking had people calling for his head early in his career. He's found a way, Watts needs to with his marking. Also correct on the other players, although I thought Clarrie copped a lot of illegal attention in the 1st quarter and that probably killed his tank as it would've been eating at him. From a tactical POV I think in those situations he'd be better off running a tag on the oppos best mid and try to take 2 out of the game, He's been noticed now which is a credit to his ability.

[Adam The God 30,220]

2 hours ago, mrtwister said:

It looked to me like Dangerfield was on cruise control for the first half. Don't think they even had him at centre bounces much either, seemed to be forward more. Turned it on every now and then but seemed to be saving himself for the last quarter. Then, whooshka, centre clearances everywhere.

I couldn't believe people had Tyson in their bests last week. He butchered plenty of his possessions and handed a couple of crucial balls back to Carlton at important stages. He was a real momentum crusher last week. This week, he just seemed to fall behind a lot. I'd give Bugg a run and rotate somebody else through the middle. Give Petracca more time in there. Or even Salem.

 

You want to drop Tyson for butchering the ball and you suggest replacing him with Tomas Bugg?

Tyson was horrible today, but worked himself into it last week and usually takes a few weeks to get going after injury. He's become one of the most maligned players on Demonland.

Edited April 8, 2017 by A F

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

Not only was Watts' goal excellent, how slick was the ground ball pick up.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2017-04-08/rd-3-watts-kicks-a-ripper

(Haven't figured out how to post the actual video so that is the link)

Jack is so skilled, silky things like that pick up simply go unnoticed.

He was mammoth yesterday.

 

 

Edit:  Had missed it live but in that video, how good was Clarrie's take down tackle of Dangerfield.  Flattened him!!

Edited April 8, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Gator 17,332]

I've been a critic of Watts and I've also been a supporter of Watts.  I've assessed his games and years as accurately as I can.  And he's had plenty of horrible ones.  His last year was a clear breakthrough and his best by a long way.

What I don't understand is why I have to "eat humble pie" every time he plays a good game.  It doesn't invalidate my criticisms of his past failures and nor does it negate the admiration I've given on other occasions. 

If someone can explain it to me I'll be exceedingly grateful.

PS If it's directed at supporters that never see any good in Watts then I'd understand, but I don't recall encountering a poster like that on these forums. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by ProDee