POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 2

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

3 minutes ago, CBDees said:

224 posts and I am surprised that no Demonlanders have referred to the ultimate irony inherent in this win over Carlton, namely the fact that we secured our undisputed match winner in Garlett as a result of his being jettisoned from the Blues. If Garlett had of still been on their list instead of ours, the result would have been massively (6 goals) different, the freakish three goals he snapped for us (plus his goal assists) and the three that he didn't kick for Carlton! In Jason Taylor we trust!

Garlett was excellent, but he wouldn't have had to do that chase down if Brayshaw didn't fumble an easy mark.

[John Crow Batty 8,797]

45 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Maybe we should look at stats of Brayshaw versus Trengove?

Hard to see Trengove coming back the way the game is played now.  Brayshaw still has a chance to turn things around. 

[DSP 1,488]

I had a great view from level 2. First time ive ever sat there, very impressed.

Milkshake and Brayshaw were decidedly average. Disappointing in fact.

Opposite side of the coin was Clarry, Chunk and Jeffy for mine.

A very scrappy win, but we'll take it. 4th on the ladder after 2 rounds. I'll take that too.

[monoccular 17,341]

12 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Looked slow. We need to decide what his role is. He needs to fix his disposal. 

"He"???  How about putting in a name especially if it is not an immediate response to the last posting. 

11 hours ago, mattjm said:

how bad was his dropped mark in the 1st quarter and dinky 3m kick that resulted in a carlton goal... rank

"His"??

24 minutes ago, CBDees said:

224 posts and I am surprised that no Demonlanders have referred to the ultimate irony inherent in this win over Carlton, namely the fact that we secured our undisputed match winner in Garlett as a result of his being jettisoned from the Blues. If Garlett had of still been on their list instead of ours, the result would have been massively (6 goals) different, the freakish three goals he snapped for us (plus his goal assists) and the three that he didn't kick for Carlton! In Jason Taylor we trust!

Yes.  And Malthouse played his own rôle too....Daisy T helped us too. 

[Gator 17,261]

10 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I don't normally rely on stats, but I have made note on here of just how few possessions Brayshaw gets (even if playing as a forward) and then I decided to compare his figures with another Melbourne high draft pick.  It's not pretty.

Brayshaw v Toumpas

All that tells me is that Brayshaw gets 60% more contested possessions than Toumpas, which was the reason Toumpas left the club.

Brayshaw is having to play in starvation corner.  Unfortunately, that's his go at the moment because others are ahead in the midfield.  I liked his game last week, but this was a poor one.

I think Brayshaw will become an exceptional midfielder after his apprenticeship is finished.

[nutbean 8,838]

Maybe I am setting the bar too low.

Sat through years of watching us NOT get our hands on the ball. Always getting smashed in contested and uncontested ball.

Yeah we were wasteful and overpossessed the ball, but for me the good news is that we got our hands on the ball often enough. It is easier to fix what we do with the ball once we get it than trying to fix not getting the ball at all.

Probably Jones was our only player that didn't cough the ball up  - Tyson did, Oliver did , Lewis did, Viney did, Salem did, Petracca did ..... Clean that up and more wins on the way. Compare this to pre Roos when we didn't turn it over because we could get the pill in the first place.

Frustrating to watch but I will take that any day over  the frustration of watching us against Carlton last year.

 

[Gator 17,261]

It's worth noting that Geelong lost to Carlton last year by 19 points.  They went on to play in a preliminary final.

Sometimes you just have to get over the line in these types of games.  We did and last year Geelong didn't.

[special robert 438]

2 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Maybe I am setting the bar too low.

Sat through years of watching us NOT get our hands on the ball. Always getting smashed in contested and uncontested ball.

Yeah we were wasteful and overpossessed the ball, but for me the good news is that we got our hands on the ball often enough. It is easier to fix what we do with the ball once we get it than trying to fix not getting the ball at all.

Probably Jones was our only player that didn't cough the ball up  - Tyson did, Oliver did , Lewis did, Viney did, Salem did, Petracca did ..... Clean that up and more wins on the way. Compare this to pre Roos when we didn't turn it over because we could get the pill in the first place.

Frustrating to watch but I will take that any day over  the frustration of watching us against Carlton last year.

 

no right on nutbean

[pinkshark 948]

10 hours ago, Deelirium said:

I completely agree. It's amazing on here the amount of negativity that can spur from a medium played game. There's certainly an over analysis of players on demonland were some posters want every player to play like pd35 every week. Nobody has moved on to melbournes direction of everybody playing a role to get the win.

Weather some players made mistakes in the heat of the moment they're still learning week to week being one of the youngest teams in the comp.

Finding that the general consensus on here is a good portion of posters only looking at 1 Team playing the game, and not working out that every single player will not beat their opponent every week. Surely a good way to get ulcers

Winning, it's good for the soul guys, get around it

Agreed. I cannot believe some of the clowns on here think Brayshaw is not up to standard. 

He is class. 

Actually I take that back. I do believe that the clowns on here think brayshaw is no good. Because I've been reading their ridiculous comments for years. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

32 minutes ago, ProDee said:

All that tells me is that Brayshaw gets 60% more contested possessions than Toumpas, which was the reason Toumpas left the club.

Brayshaw is having to play in starvation corner.  Unfortunately, that's his go at the moment because others are ahead in the midfield.  I liked his game last week, but this was a poor one.

I think Brayshaw will become an exceptional midfielder after his apprenticeship is finished.

No doubt he is a different style of player to Toumpas, but he would want to start improving his numbers soon to justify a move to the midfield or a wing.

His poor disposal and tendency to fumble a lot just compound the issues.

[pinkshark 948]

How good were a couple of Watts's left foot inside fifty entries to the nipple regions of our forwards.  

And for all those having a go at Brayshaw holding the mark late in the last.  He still managed to maintain possession in our favour through his strength and awareness.  That sort of [censored] has happened for years.

I am over the moon about how we won.  In these early stages of the season Id rather a win like that than a blowout.  Lets just grind.  Thats what winners do.

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by pinkshark

[Ethan Tremblay 30,178]

I'd never heard of Matthew Wright until yesterday, I'm going to take it as a given that when we play Carlton some spud will stand up and kick a few, last year it was Liam Jones. Just yuk.

[ucanchoose 1,816]

I have never seen a punch on during a kick to kick on the G until yesterday..... 

[Robbie57 2,003]

7 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I tend to think that Nev is probably the least naturally talented of the AFL Jettas, but he is by far the most professional and hardest working.  That's the reason he's so highly regarded within the club.  

Have to agree with this tries at 100% all the time, size or skill of opponent is irrelevant he just gives it his all.

Setting an example to others in the team. 

[old55 22,880]

Some strange analysis of what happened based more on false expectation than actual.  I said before the game I just want a win.

Carlton played well, off 10 days break, their entire coaching team at our R1, they ran very hard defensively and set a great zone and then worked hard out of defence.  There's three reasons they only scored 9.10 - their defensive plan, they are young and/or ordinary in attack and our defence held well.  Carlton fancy themselves against us and got up for the game - they wont be the only ordinary team that has that focus against us.  With a starting midfield of Kruezer, Murphy, Cripps and Gibbs they do have a solid core.  They'll get belted in games this year when they don't bring all they have, but they played well yesterday.

[dpositive 1,654]

Some things I haven't seen mentioned is the number of times we had multiple players flying for the mark, and even sometimes our player attempting to spoil our player flying for the mark.

We occasionally kicked to forward/s outnumbered. When Carlton got the ball there was an outomatic loose man and as we scrambled to make up that number we released the next player down the field.

Not helped when our forward player fell down in the contest and the opposition got up more quickly.

Loved an effort by Jetta in the last when he went to ground an rolled over and tackled as he got up in an almost reflexaction. Second efforts are so important

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I can't add too much more to the comments than what's already been covered.  Lots of good, some things to work on and a few players who were down on their output.

We're being harsh on Brayshaw, though.  Wasn't his best game, but the bloke was drafted as a midfielder and he is being asked to play as a half forward for most of the day.  It's no surprise that he finds it a little bit of a struggle, and comparing his output to Toumpas is silly.  It's an excuse for the usual suspects to push their negative agenda.  When given the opportunity to play midfield minutes, as he was given towards the end of last year, Brayshaw showed he is more than capable of being, at the very least, a very good player for us.  He just needs to wait his turn for his opportunity to play in the midfield again.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

McDonald x 2 and Jetta saved us the game, very rarely beaten all day and were able to put themselves consistently in the right spots to prevent the opposition from scoring on our turnover.

Melksham looked poor when given the opportunity to run the football out of our back half, little to no ability to intercept the football today and whilst he clearly had a more outside role, his inability to pressure opponents made for a tough time for the rest of our backline. Vince was clearly missed and played this role significantly more effectively than Melksham. Will still be given a few chances obviously, but when Hibberd returns I personally dont see a spot in the side for him.

Neal-Bullen returned to looking not up to AFL standard, whilst it is probably a little hasty dto drop him, Kent is clearly a best 22 player and has put 2 better than good VFL games together and must be brought into the side. Hannan offers more than Neal-Bullen, competed well in the air and in my opinion has more to work with.

Tyson was great apart from his 2-3 stupidly poor kicks. He really helps move the ball out of congestion and whilst Olivers hands are some of the best in the competition, Tysons ability to draw players and move the ball on is second to none.

 

We were far too slow to change the way our team was setting up, we consistently allowed the loose defender by playing with 5 forwards and the 6th coming from behind the contest, Carlton set their zone a little deeper than St Kilda and we were unable to get clean posession out of the middle meaning the rushed clearances often ended in an intercept. The last quarter we started with 6 forwards and played a majority of the centre bounces with 6 forwards and lo and behold our forward half was more competitive. 

[Dante 2,704]

51 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

No doubt he is a different style of player to Toumpas, but he would want to start improving his numbers soon to justify a move to the midfield or a wing.

His poor disposal and tendency to fumble a lot just compound the issues.

Last year before the draft there were calls for Salem to be traded because he wasn't up to it and couldn't get his hands on the ball, now it's Brayshaw's turn to cop it. It was a very poor day for skills yesterday, it was quite windy and blowing all over the place with no clear advantage to either end.

We won a por game and that's all that counts, Gus was ordinary yesterday but so was Viney, he made some dreadful decisions and was really interactive, do we want him back in the two's as well?

We overused the ball, that's a given, our skills were down, that's a given, we were out coached, that's a given, we won the game, that's a given too.

[Dante 2,704]

8 minutes ago, dpositive said:

Some things I haven't seen mentioned is the number of times we had multiple players flying for the mark, and even sometimes our player attempting to spoil our player flying for the mark.

We occasionally kicked to forward/s outnumbered. When Carlton got the ball there was an outomatic loose man and as we scrambled to make up that number we released the next player down the field.

Not helped when our forward player fell down in the contest and the opposition got up more quickly.

Loved an effort by Jetta in the last when he went to ground an rolled over and tackled as he got up in an almost reflexaction. Second efforts are so important

And therein lies the problem, we did that so many times, allowing them to go from defence to attack with two or three kicks to unopposed players on the wing, you could see it unfold from the stands.

We had too many players caught between two opposition players, unable to guard them both.

[picket fence 16,743]

2 hours ago, america de cali said:

Carlton Coach Bolton was not happy after the game. Very Neeldesque.

Bolton is a better coach than Neeld who had no idea! That dvd before game 1 a few years ago was cringeworthy, how can you follow a bloke like that??

[picket fence 16,743]

14 minutes ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

McDonald x 2 and Jetta saved us the game, very rarely beaten all day and were able to put themselves consistently in the right spots to prevent the opposition from scoring on our turnover.

Melksham looked poor when given the opportunity to run the football out of our back half, little to no ability to intercept the football today and whilst he clearly had a more outside role, his inability to pressure opponents made for a tough time for the rest of our backline. Vince was clearly missed and played this role significantly more effectively than Melksham. Will still be given a few chances obviously, but when Hibberd returns I personally dont see a spot in the side for him.

Neal-Bullen returned to looking not up to AFL standard, whilst it is probably a little hasty dto drop him, Kent is clearly a best 22 player and has put 2 better than good VFL games together and must be brought into the side. Hannan offers more than Neal-Bullen, competed well in the air and in my opinion has more to work with.

Tyson was great apart from his 2-3 stupidly poor kicks. He really helps move the ball out of congestion and whilst Olivers hands are some of the best in the competition, Tysons ability to draw players and move the ball on is second to none.

 

We were far too slow to change the way our team was setting up, we consistently allowed the loose defender by playing with 5 forwards and the 6th coming from behind the contest, Carlton set their zone a little deeper than St Kilda and we were unable to get clean posession out of the middle meaning the rushed clearances often ended in an intercept. The last quarter we started with 6 forwards and played a majority of the centre bounces with 6 forwards and lo and behold our forward half was more competitive. 

Agree totally with all of tis summary!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 minute ago, Dante said:

Last year before the draft there were calls for Salem to be traded because he wasn't up to it and couldn't get his hands on the ball, now it's Brayshaw's turn to cop it. It was a very poor day for skills yesterday, it was quite windy and blowing all over the place with no clear advantage to either end.

We won a por game and that's all that counts, Gus was ordinary yesterday but so was Viney, he made some dreadful decisions and was really interactive, do we want him back in the two's as well?

We overused the ball, that's a given, our skills were down, that's a given, we were out coached, that's a given, we won the game, that's a given too.

I've never called for Salem to be traded because I could always see that he had the qualities to become a very good player, I don't see those same qualities in Brayshaw, yet.

 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

42 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I'd never heard of Matthew Wright until yesterday, I'm going to take it as a given that when we play Carlton some spud will stand up and kick a few, last year it was Liam Jones. Just yuk.

I'd never heard of him until last week.

[drdrake 3,126]

We got the end result but boy has it bad.  Lucky Carlton stink because we play like that against most sides we lose by 10 goals.  I think Marchbank from Carlton just stood 25m out from our goal and for 3 qtrs. we just kept kicking it to him.

Jack Watts, I noticed at the start of the match in warm up he seemed to be protecting I think his left hand thumb, not sure if he carried something into the match but is was frustrating to watch him try to mark everything on this chest.  Other parts of his game was good but his marking yesterday was extremely poor.

Take the win as frustrating as it was