19 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Of course, but when Jones, Viney or Oliver etc get a little aggressive it probably works because when it's their turn to go they'll go. If players want to waste their time trying to rough those guys up then good luck to them.

Watch the faces of the players Melksham tries to niggle. They're usually laughing because they know on a footy field his bark is bigger than his bite.

Melksham could be an important player because he has good size for a flanker, good aerial ability, really nice speed/endurance combination and length and penetration to his kicking. If that's what we got him for he might work. If Goodwin or anyone else is a fan of his tough guy shtick or decision making under pressure then good luck to them, I'm not buying it.

The Hawks dominated because of their anti social footy - Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Franklin, Rioli etc were intimidating players. Look at what happened when North tried to copy it with the likes of Lindsay Thomas, Scott Thompson etc. They got found out against the big boys in finals.

Yeah, fair enough. I reckon "tough guy shtick" is neither here nor there, it doesn't make any difference either way. If any oppo player is stupid enough to get taken in by it, they're begging to be targeted.

The point is that every team has a few - for us, Bernie & Bugg are strangely effective at getting under the skin of opponents. And as you say, most of the good nigglers can back it up with good hard play (which excludes Norf for a start), but Melksham seems OK with this, he laid a couple of good hard-but-not-dangerous bumps.

I'm just wondering why, out of all the nigglers in the AFL, you pick out Melksham. I agree that he's not the complete player (I'm concerned about him in one-on-ones, for example) and his game was just OK, but he's just not nearly as bad as you make out because he makes a couple of mistakes.

I repeat: all players make mistakes. It's the amount of good things they do that keeps them in the team.

48 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Even in peak fitness Kent hasn't shown he has the tank for repeated defensive efforts like ANB. There's no way if ANB is playing well with the ball that Kent takes his spot unless he's on fire in the VFL.

Ken'ts problem is that "Jimmy" Hannan is now in front of him.

 

BenKen and JKH should be even more worried.

1 minute ago, Ted Fidge said:

Ken'ts problem is that "Jimmy" Hannan is now in front of him.

 

BenKen and JKH should be even more worried.

I think that Hannan is more of a combo forward. He plays as a lead up forward as well as a crumbing forward. He would also be an effective wingman. I actually think that he takes VDB's role. I even think that he could play Watts' role up forward, but can't pinch hit in the ruck.

45 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Goodwin says: Oscar just oozes leadership with the way he goes about his business on a day-to-day basis, which is really exciting.  He prepares extremely well and he trains to a high level every session.  For a player of his age to be able to play that way has been really exciting for the club.

 

36 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I wonder if Goodwin actually said these things ..

 

Well, he's hardly going to say "Oh, Oscar. Well.... he's got promise but gee, he's not exactly Matt Scarlett is he? Christ, I hope we don't have to play him too often this season."

It's all pre-season fluff and can't be taken seriously.

O-Mac had a great passage of play that could have set the scene for our comeback. Check out the lead-up play to Watts's goal.

Hunt wins the ball at half back, turns around and kicks it to T-Mac in back pocket. O-Mac runs to the other pocket as soon as he sees Hunt turn, and gets the switch kick from T-Mac.

There's nobody free, but instead of bombing it to a contest (this is right after quarter time, remember), he waits, is told to play on, but Lewis has made position on the boundary line and he hits him with a neat 20-30m pass.

Lewis too has nobody to kick to initially. But instead of just ball-watching, O-Mac has actually run about 60m (past Riewoldt on the mark, who didn't chase him) and made position on the boundary line 30m downfield from Lewis, who hits him with the pass. O-Mac plays on immediately, and with a beautiful zone-splitting angled 40m pass he hits Petracca on the front corner of the square. Petracca plays on quickly and belts it over the back of the zone where Watts, who started running towards goal as soon as he realised it was Petracca, takes an unopposed mark & slots it.

O-Mac's play here converted a back-pocket stalemate into a goal in the first minute of the second quarter. Sure, others played an important part, but it was O-Mac who set up the play. And it was at a crucial time in the game, when we had to make a statement after the first quarter. I'm saying that 9 out of 10 defenders wouldn't have bothered running to make position, and none of them would have attempted, let alone executed, such a brilliant attacking pass that split the defence.

I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, or hesitate, or turn it over. But he does do some really good things too, which I'm sure the coaching staff would notice. He gets no credit on here for the good things he does.

On 3/26/2017 at 10:19 AM, Red and Blue realist said:

Not sure if I watched the same game as the rest of you. Oscar had less howlers than Lewis, Vince and Jones. He's role is the spoil and he did that really well I thought. He's not the most polished player yet but there's no doubt he'll be best 22 every week if he plays like that

It's always best to view the game R&B and make your own observations as you have done. Stats can be deceiving, but without the luxury of watching it all again here's the Clanger stats for those you mentioned.....

Lewis 6 (1st)

Oscar 4 (equal 3rd with Trac, Melk & Nev)

Vince 3 (equal 4th with three others)

Jones 1 (equal 6th with five others, all on one only)

No player had Zero clangers on the day

18 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

 

 

Well, he's hardly going to say "Oh, Oscar. Well.... he's got promise but gee, he's not exactly Matt Scarlett is he? Christ, I hope we don't have to play him too often this season."

It's all pre-season fluff and can't be taken seriously.

That's not true - if you bother to read the reviews there's varying degrees of praise.

Try Oscar v Hulett and ANB v Kennedy

Edited March 27, 20178 yr by Fifty-5

22 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Ken'ts problem is that "Jimmy" Hannan is now in front of him.

 

BenKen and JKH should be even more worried.

JHK in particular as he is injured and cannot press his case.

The fact is with Garland,Frost,Smith and Hibberd out,Omac is certain to play.

 

19 minutes ago, Akum said:

O-Mac had a great passage of play that could have set the scene for our comeback. Check out the lead-up play to Watts's goal.

Hunt wins the ball at half back, turns around and kicks it to T-Mac in back pocket. O-Mac runs to the other pocket as soon as he sees Hunt turn, and gets the switch kick from T-Mac.

There's nobody free, but instead of bombing it to a contest (this is right after quarter time, remember), he waits, is told to play on, but Lewis has made position on the boundary line and he hits him with a neat 20-30m pass.

Lewis too has nobody to kick to initially. But instead of just ball-watching, O-Mac has actually run about 60m (past Riewoldt on the mark, who didn't chase him) and made position on the boundary line 30m downfield from Lewis, who hits him with the pass. O-Mac plays on immediately, and with a beautiful zone-splitting angled 40m pass he hits Petracca on the front corner of the square. Petracca plays on quickly and belts it over the back of the zone where Watts, who started running towards goal as soon as he realised it was Petracca, takes an unopposed mark & slots it.

O-Mac's play here converted a back-pocket stalemate into a goal in the first minute of the second quarter. Sure, others played an important part, but it was O-Mac who set up the play. And it was at a crucial time in the game, when we had to make a statement after the first quarter. I'm saying that 9 out of 10 defenders wouldn't have bothered running to make position, and none of them would have attempted, let alone executed, such a brilliant attacking pass that split the defence.

I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, or hesitate, or turn it over. But he does do some really good things too, which I'm sure the coaching staff would notice. He gets no credit on here for the good things he does.

I watched the replay last night and noticed the plaudits for Lewis - which I thought sold OMac well short...even though he makes a sweat like a rockspider in a toy store.

7 minutes ago, Biffen said:

The fact is with Garland,Frost,Smith and Hibberd out,Omac is certain to play.

 

With Garland, Frost, Smith and Hibberd available O Mac is certain to play

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

He's the fake tough guy champion of the league, taking the crown from Lynden Dunn who is now the VFL champ after his Lin Jong efforts in the VFL grand final. $1.01 he drops a mark or fumbles a ground ball under pressure in the coming weeks.

Fake tough guy?  Its well know Melksham can handle himself.  Undefeated  (admittedly short) amateur boxing career before footy became number 1.

Just now, Itsabouttohappen said:

Fake tough guy?  Its well know Melksham can handle himself.  Undefeated  (admittedly short) amateur boxing career before footy became number 1.

Footy toughness. The ability to put your body on the line and win a loose ball or hold a tough mark.

No doubt he's great in the ring but as Barry Hall showed that doesn't really help you if you ever use it on the field. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Even in peak fitness Kent hasn't shown he has the tank for repeated defensive efforts like ANB. There's no way if ANB is playing well with the ball that Kent takes his spot unless he's on fire in the VFL. 

I agree at times you just have to pick the more talented guy but when the preseason focus has been on defensive pressure it certainly won't be this week. 

Our ability to pressure and spread was what really shifted the game in our favour and it was why we won at Etihad for the 2nd time in ages, because at the G we get away with less of both. ANB was crucial to that. 

Garlett, Kent, Hannan, Petracca, Watts & Hogan is now my favorite forward line (i want the forward pressure & i think hannan's skills clearly put him above VDB). Last year Kent was always the guy running from one lose defender to the next (when they had the ball and were switching) and his speed between players helped defensively pressure the kicks like essendon's tipinwoodi (however its spelt).

I don't know if he should come in this week, but i see Kent in the team by the week after if not.

change for Blues

Blue back back for red

Clanger Totals

6 - Lewis

5 - Oliver,  T-Mac

4 - Melksham,  Jetta,  Petracca,  O-Mac

3 - Hunt,  Vince,  ANB,  Gawn.

2 - Smith,  Garlett,  Salem,  Hannan,  Hogan

A total of around about 22 clangers were made by backline players other than the Mac bros.

However, mistakes made anywhere on the ground can in turn result in an opposition score.  Even an easy missed shot on goal can result in an 11 or 12 point swingaround (coast to coast goals) 

But it goes further than that of course ... for instance, in the first quarter and a bit of Saturday's game, our non-switched-on midfield cost us dearly on the scoreboard. 

Not getting to a contest or not making a contest can also be extremely costly ... and some clangers are often quite inconsequential. 

But despite all of the above, we won the game in impressive fashion. 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited March 27, 20178 yr by Macca

On 26/03/2017 at 11:23 AM, TRIGON said:

Don't see him as uncoordinated, am concerned about his speed of thought.

His a good backman PF is one of those posters who has a belief about a player and no matter what they do they will never be good enough, I mostly take those sort of posters with a grain of salt,  any player can improve and OMAC will became a handy backmen.

44 minutes ago, Akum said:

O-Mac had a great passage of play that could have set the scene for our comeback. Check out the lead-up play to Watts's goal.

Hunt wins the ball at half back, turns around and kicks it to T-Mac in back pocket. O-Mac runs to the other pocket as soon as he sees Hunt turn, and gets the switch kick from T-Mac.

There's nobody free, but instead of bombing it to a contest (this is right after quarter time, remember), he waits, is told to play on, but Lewis has made position on the boundary line and he hits him with a neat 20-30m pass.

Lewis too has nobody to kick to initially. But instead of just ball-watching, O-Mac has actually run about 60m (past Riewoldt on the mark, who didn't chase him) and made position on the boundary line 30m downfield from Lewis, who hits him with the pass. O-Mac plays on immediately, and with a beautiful zone-splitting angled 40m pass he hits Petracca on the front corner of the square. Petracca plays on quickly and belts it over the back of the zone where Watts, who started running towards goal as soon as he realised it was Petracca, takes an unopposed mark & slots it.

O-Mac's play here converted a back-pocket stalemate into a goal in the first minute of the second quarter. Sure, others played an important part, but it was O-Mac who set up the play. And it was at a crucial time in the game, when we had to make a statement after the first quarter. I'm saying that 9 out of 10 defenders wouldn't have bothered running to make position, and none of them would have attempted, let alone executed, such a brilliant attacking pass that split the defence.

I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, or hesitate, or turn it over. But he does do some really good things too, which I'm sure the coaching staff would notice. He gets no credit on here for the good things he does.

Brilliant pick up. I noticed that on the replay and thought 'was that Oscar again out on the wing taking the Lewis kick?'. . spotted up Petracca beautifully too. Was at a critical time when we were trying to swing the momentum our way.

He has potential no doubt. Im just still scared when he has the ball under any sort of pressure.

Oscar was almost a weekly debate in the changes thread last season. Best to just accept that he isn't going to be dropped. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on. It simply isn't going to happen, especially with the lack of defensive depth atm.

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

That's my favourite stat ever.

Honestly. What is that telling us? That the opposition are entering our forward 50 an awful lot under little pressure meaning Oscar will be subject to more contests?

I really don't care for much of what the prospectus says because it discounts so many factors/variables that contribute to these isolated stats.  

If someone paid me, I'd review the entire game and look closely at every contest, possession and disposal Oscar was apart of and critically analyse whether it was effective or not. And my memory of what I saw on Saturday tells me that he contributed far more inneffective pieces of play compared to effective ones.

All I imagine that you and others would see is an elementary spoil made against his opponent and go on to congratulate him on a solid game.

I think you misread, but the stat indicates that his percentage of one v one losses was 7th in the league for anyone who competed in over 30 contests. So it's a pretty good stat, but your keen eye for detail would definitely be highly sought after in a game review. 

 

It you actually did have a good look at the footage you could from the replay, I'd hazard a guess and say you would see 3-4 critical errors in the first quarter and significantly less for three quarters of football, possibly 1-2. 

 

All im stating is that his supposed weaknesses in the contest is a misconception and whilst I don't believe everything from the prospectus it does give a good analysis on the whole. 

 

 

Ive always wanted to watch football with you or a few others on here, to try and understand how you actually watch a game of football and what you actually look for. It probably would not be fun on the whole but I'm intrigued about how you process things

44 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

It's always best to view the game R&B and make your own observations as you have done. Stats can be deceiving, but without the luxury of watching it all again here's the Clanger stats for those you mentioned.....

Lewis 6 (1st)

Oscar 4 (equal 3rd with Trac, Melk & Nev)

Vince 3 (equal 4th with three others)

Jones 1 (equal 6th with five others, all on one only)

No player had Zero clangers on the day

Clanger stats are a poor measurement of performance. They only relate to disposals that directly end up in the hands of the opposition. Oliver had 5 clangers, which were all probably misdirected handballs under pressure. That happens often with mids. In the case of O Mac, It doesn't include his dropped marks, which were howlers, or missed spoil.

Mav Weller's 3 missed set shots for goal were the biggest clangers in the match, yet aren't registered as such.

3 minutes ago, P-man said:

Oscar was almost a weekly debate in the changes thread last season. Best to just accept that he isn't going to be dropped. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on. It simply isn't going to happen, especially with the lack of defensive depth atm.

Yes. It is also worth noting while Oscar did make some awful mess-ups, his opponent Bruce had almost zero impact on the game.

 

4 minutes ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

I think you misread, but the stat indicates that his percentage of one v one losses was 7th in the league for anyone who competed in over 30 contests. So it's a pretty good stat, but your keen eye for detail would definitely be highly sought after in a game review. 

 

It you actually did have a good look at the footage you could from the replay, I'd hazard a guess and say you would see 3-4 critical errors in the first quarter and significantly less for three quarters of football, possibly 1-2. 

 

All im stating is that his supposed weaknesses in the contest is a misconception and whilst I don't believe everything from the prospectus it does give a good analysis on the whole. 

 

 

Ive always wanted to watch football with you or a few others on here, to try and understand how you actually watch a game of football and what you actually look for. It probably would not be fun on the whole but I'm intrigued about how you process things

I have the same view about Tom McDonald's disposal. His ungainly (OK, awful) kicking action puts heart in mouth, but I'm not convinced the end result statistically is much different to most other players. It's just that when he misses a target he gets pounced on more than others.

55 minutes ago, Akum said:

O-Mac had a great passage of play that could have set the scene for our comeback. Check out the lead-up play to Watts's goal.

Hunt wins the ball at half back, turns around and kicks it to T-Mac in back pocket. O-Mac runs to the other pocket as soon as he sees Hunt turn, and gets the switch kick from T-Mac.

There's nobody free, but instead of bombing it to a contest (this is right after quarter time, remember), he waits, is told to play on, but Lewis has made position on the boundary line and he hits him with a neat 20-30m pass.

Lewis too has nobody to kick to initially. But instead of just ball-watching, O-Mac has actually run about 60m (past Riewoldt on the mark, who didn't chase him) and made position on the boundary line 30m downfield from Lewis, who hits him with the pass. O-Mac plays on immediately, and with a beautiful zone-splitting angled 40m pass he hits Petracca on the front corner of the square. Petracca plays on quickly and belts it over the back of the zone where Watts, who started running towards goal as soon as he realised it was Petracca, takes an unopposed mark & slots it.

O-Mac's play here converted a back-pocket stalemate into a goal in the first minute of the second quarter. Sure, others played an important part, but it was O-Mac who set up the play. And it was at a crucial time in the game, when we had to make a statement after the first quarter. I'm saying that 9 out of 10 defenders wouldn't have bothered running to make position, and none of them would have attempted, let alone executed, such a brilliant attacking pass that split the defence.

I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, or hesitate, or turn it over. But he does do some really good things too, which I'm sure the coaching staff would notice. He gets no credit on here for the good things he does.

Good to see some others noticed this. Was a pin point and brave kick. He is actually a pretty good kick above 30m it's just the chip passes that he seams to struggle with. It's only confidence holding him back. Dropping him wont help with that.

6 minutes ago, P-man said:

Oscar was almost a weekly debate in the changes thread last season. Best to just accept that he isn't going to be dropped. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on. It simply isn't going to happen, especially with the lack of defensive depth atm.

The same was said about Garland this time last year, after his top 10 finish in the B&F the previous year and appointment into the leadership group. 

I think it's a legitimate discussion when Goodwin openly said in his presser of the problems when O Mac was isolated, and that other players had to help out.