Post Match V Eagles JLT 9

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

Disposal could be better

If everyone was 5% better we win

Best part was no injuries

Bring on Rnd 1!!!

[goodwindees 2,488]

Bring on Round 2 for me. Saints are certainties at Etihad. They have what we can't handle, tall forwards and pace. 

[Adam The God 30,112]

I agree that we couldn't have played much worse and yet we were still in the game until the last 5 minutes.

The most worrying aspect of the game was our zone defence though, with the breakdown across half forward due to a lack of defensive cover and then our defenders inability to read the play.

The way our zone was carved up time and again, reminded me so much of last year. 

I think St Kilda will absolutely maul us, because their game style slices through our zone as easily as you like and we don’t seem to have addressed this glaring problem.

Aside from Oliver who is just a phenomenal talent and continues to stamp himself as my favourite player, our better players were all well down this week. Although, Spencer was also quite good tonight.

However, Gawn was ineffective around the ground and I fail to recall him taking a single contested mark.

Tyson, who I love, looked miles off it tonight. As did Petracca, Hogan and Viney. I'm not sure I've seen Viney play a worse half of footy than his first. 

And I was in the 'pump games into Oscar McDonald' camp last year, but at the moment, he struggles massively in a zone defence. Maybe in time he'll be a damaging intercept marker, but currently he's usually caught on the wrong side of the zone. I think Frost has to play in defence against St Kilda. His pace is essential.

With Lewis, Salem, Hibberd and Jones playing off half back, someone has to give. We need pace back there and Vince continues to be a liability with his momentum changing brainfades. So flashforward to a year's time and we could well see Bernie on the outter. 

All in all, a disappointing night and I think it could point to the continued failure of our zone defence. Goodwin and co's failure to improve this weakness is frustrating.

Edited March 9, 2017 by A F

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

You'll cop it for expecting Saints to smash us, but I have to say I agree somewhat. I'll be tipping Saints, but not with massive confidence. The big thing was the rebounding from defense, especially after turnovers. We attack so ferociously, but are still learning to go back the other way.

The one big thing we have in our favour is that Goody is an unknown quantity in the AFL. JLT be damned, he should bring a few new things to the game in two weeks. The Saints won't, they're in form and everyone knows what they're doing. On form, talent, maturity alone they win. But we have weapons too. They haven't got a Hogan killer anymore than we have a Riewoldt/Bruce killer. So plenty of hope. Just not a lot of confidence.

[Little Goffy 14,442]

What frustrates me is how often we get beaten as a result of giving away bursts of goals, which is clearly a problem of lapses in the zone defence and in overall play.

4 unanswered goals in 20 minutes by West Coast ended up being the difference, almost the exact margin.

So many 'dead stops', failing to score, letting goals through. It's the Demon madness. It's easy to find a host of examples from last season, even if you just go by quarters, and even if you skip the less extreme cases.

 

Round 3 - an 8 goal to 2 first quarter and 7 goal to 3 3rd quarter cost us the loss to North in a see-sawing game (well, Tasmanian wind and all) 

Round 6 - 8 goals to 3 third quarter and St Kilda have done that thing St Kilda keep doing to us.

Round 10 - 6 goal to 1 final quarter turned a close game into a solid thumping by Port, up in Darwin

Rnd 11 - failed to score a goal in the final quarter after being level with them at 3/4 time.

rnd 13 - Sydney double their goal tally, kicking 6 goals to 1, turning a dreary low-scoring slog into another of our biggest losses for the year

rnd 17 - 5 goals to nothing 2nd quarter sets up St Kilda for another solid win over us.

rnd 18 - We're six points ahead at 3/4 time, and kick exactly 2 points in the final quarter.

rnd 23 - We actually stemmed the bleeding a bit in the middle two quarters, but 8 goals against us in the first and TEN in the final quarter sure ruined the day for everyone.

There's a few other results where, even when we won, our opponents kicked a full half of their final score in a single quarter.

 

I'm not too worried about the specific result of the final game of the pre-season. It's the pattern that bugs me. Even this preseason, the Bulldogs wiped out our previous 45 minutes of work with a 15 minute burst of 4 goals late in the second quarter.

 

Right, I've got that off my chest.

[Nasher 33,607]

I missed the last quarter but Oliver looked exceptional. When the main question over him has been ability to run out games and stay involved for the duration, this was an enormous step forward.

The kick down Hogan's throat at the last second when he looked set to have a running shot on goal was fantastic. He can handball in traffic like nobody I've seen, but any question over his ball use by foot has surely been answered now - definitely better than average.

On track to be our best player, and soon. No pressure though

[sisso 2,577]

The effort was ok but our ball use was horrible. Watts, Salem and Oliver were good in this respect but most of our other guys took a flamethrower to the footy. Need to tighten this up big time on the fast deck at Etihad or we'll get cut up.

 

Got a good lesson from the Eagles as it didn't look like they were going in that hard, but their superior skills set up simple shots at goal time and time again, at times they picked our zone apart with ease. I think we'll be a side that is in most matches this year through effort but we need a big lift in execution to challenge the big boys.

[Upper Combukta West 48]

Oliver is a gun!

I love his kicking when he's on the run. He winds up like he's going to kick it 60m but then weights it perfectly for 15, 20, 30m kick like the one to hogan mentioned above. Great to watch and it seemed like the oppo and even our players fall for the big wind up every time. 

[The end is nigh 366]

I've always thought highly of garlo's spoiling and closing speed, but when he gets sucked in to trying to being an extra man on a tackle and leaves his man wide open inside 50, I really get annoyed. It was a major fault of the whole backline years ago and he is the only component left of that time. Sorry old yeller but IMO it's past your time. Good luck at Casey this year, I hope you win a flag. 

(Hope this isn't a derailer, just from last nights observations I got viscous flashbacks)

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

There were 2 really frustrating points from yesterday.

Our poor skills which butchered our scoring opportunities which then lead to the eagles running and overlapping which lead to their easy scoring shots

I was excited about this game because it is a great preview for us to round 1. Sadly i think the saints domination will continue.

But im not jumping off us just stating the obvious.

We need to find balance between attack and defencem im happy we have Lewis on board to help.... I've got a feeling we're going to disappoint in a few games this year but overall it still should be quiet exciting 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Unleash Hell

[chook fowler 19,444]

Apart from Oliver the standout for me was Hunt - 27 disposals, plenty of dash and a super goal.

[jackaub 1,402]

Can somebody please gag Dermot before the season starts and keep him gagged 

His inane chatter and over analysis drives me insane

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Tyson gets a pass because it's his first game back after an injury in pre-season.

But if he plays like that again I think I'll turn on him quickly. His turnovers last night were awful and cost us goals.

Very encouraged by Oliver and Hunt last night. Guns.

[watchtheeyes 1,417]

Everyones being a bit too bearish about the Saints game for my liking. I don't disagree that we get opened up and the Saints have been major perpetrators of that, but so much of it comes down to ball use.

The Eagles cut us open whenever we missed a target as all of our players are streaming forward leaving the saints forwards behind us. When we kick it down their throats we're all caught on the wrong side of the player. Our ball use was pretty good the first two games, so I'm choosing to remain positive.

Clean up our ball use, prevent the turnover goals. Simples.

Oliver, what an absolute jet. The way he rides contact is beautiful, and he just moves so well. Brownlow conversation in years to come.

Also thought Melksham's game was a real positive!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

Turnovers! Turnovers! Turnovers!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I could be wrong, but I don't feel as though the breakdown of the zone will be as bad on a smaller ground.  Subiaco is much wider and therefore a team like West Coast know how to find the gaps easier, which they did when we turn it over.  When we've played on smaller ground in the first two rounds our zone defence has been great and, even when there has been a turnover, we've had the rebound generally covered.  Granted, one of those games was against an extremely average Carlton side, but you could see what we were doing.  The Eagles just had too much space on the bigger ground and we kept giving them easy goals through preventable turnovers.

The one thing in our favour, at the minute, is our midfield.  I think we won more than our fair share of the ball and, when we used it well, we looked dangerous.  The addition of a Kent/Garlett will also help our cause down there and I think it's an area that we have the Saints covered in.

Hopefully this is a great learning experience and that we now have 2 weeks to tighten the screws and iron out some of the kinks we found last night.  I'm happy for us to have it happen in JLT3 than Round 1... as long as don't make the same mistakes again!

[dazzledavey36 54,215]

Going by Goodys press conference i don't think Jetta is in his best 22..

[The Chazz 4,077]

4 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Can somebody please gag Dermot before the season starts and keep him gagged 

His inane chatter and over analysis drives me insane

Presuming you were watching the Dogs/Suns game, considering he didn't commentate ours.

Anyway, this was the loss we needed to have, and I'm glad it was a JLT game and not for premiership points.

I'm more disappointed that I sat up and watched the whole game, rather than going to bed earlier.  Bloody tired today, stupid 8:40pm games played in Perth on a weekday (other than a Friday).  Bring on the coffee.

[Lucifers Hero 39,505]

6 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Turnovers! Turnovers! Turnovers!

Yep, apparently 12 of their 14 goals were from our turnovers.

Climate and conditions aside as both teams played them, the culprits:  skill errors and poor decisions. 

Lots of work to do on the former, tough to fix the latter.

[loges 6,767]

How did Weideman go and is he up to it for round 1?

[watchtheeyes 1,417]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Yep, apparently 12 of their 14 goals were from our turnovers.

Climate and conditions aside as both teams played them, the culprits:  skill errors and poor decisions. 

Lots of work to do on the former, tough to fix the latter.

You fix the later by changing players.

I love Harmes, I really want him to do well, but his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. Vince is becoming a serial culprit as well. ANB has all the enthusiasm in the world, but you can put him in this bucket as well.

I generally rate Garlett's decision making, so him coming back in should help when delivering inside 50. Hibberd in the back half for sure.

[John Crow Batty 8,860]

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I could be wrong, but I don't feel as though the breakdown of the zone will be as bad on a smaller ground.  Subiaco is much wider and therefore a team like West Coast know how to find the gaps easier, which they did when we turn it over.  When we've played on smaller ground in the first two rounds our zone defence has been great and, even when there has been a turnover, we've had the rebound generally covered.  Granted, one of those games was against an extremely average Carlton side, but you could see what we were doing.  The Eagles just had too much space on the bigger ground and we kept giving them easy goals through preventable turnovers.

The one thing in our favour, at the minute, is our midfield.  I think we won more than our fair share of the ball and, when we used it well, we looked dangerous.  The addition of a Kent/Garlett will also help our cause down there and I think it's an area that we have the Saints covered in.

Hopefully this is a great learning experience and that we now have 2 weeks to tighten the screws and iron out some of the kinks we found last night.  I'm happy for us to have it happen in JLT3 than Round 1... as long as don't make the same mistakes again!

Subiaco is significantly narrower than the MCG or most typical AFL grounds. Like about 18-20 metres. But it is much longer. Only other comparable ground is Skilled Stadium. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by america de cali

[jnrmac 20,053]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Yep, apparently 12 of their 14 goals were from our turnovers.

Climate and conditions aside as both teams played them, the culprits:  skill errors and poor decisions. 

Lots of work to do on the former, tough to fix the latter.

This stat is a bit misleading. They only score goals 3 ways: turnovers, stoppages and from kick ins. So t/o's will always be a major scoring issue.

I confess that I only listened to the apallingly biased commentary on radio but it seemed that many of the turnovers were deep within our forward line. This suggests lack of small forwards and our inability to keep it in there as well as missing targets. We will always have turnovers but we need to be able to shut it down quickly when we do. That seemed to me what was missing. around 72% of their goals started from deep within their defence I believe.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I could be wrong, but I don't feel as though the breakdown of the zone will be as bad on a smaller ground.  Subiaco is much wider longer and therefore a team like West Coast know how to find the gaps easier, which they did when we turn it over.  When we've played on smaller ground in the first two rounds our zone defence has been great and, even when there has been a turnover, we've had the rebound generally covered.  Granted, one of those games was against an extremely average Carlton side, but you could see what we were doing.  The Eagles just had too much space on the bigger ground and we kept giving them easy goals through preventable turnovers.

The one thing in our favour, at the minute, is our midfield.  I think we won more than our fair share of the ball and, when we used it well, we looked dangerous.  The addition of a Kent/Garlett will also help our cause down there and I think it's an area that we have the Saints covered in.

Hopefully this is a great learning experience and that we now have 2 weeks to tighten the screws and iron out some of the kinks we found last night.  I'm happy for us to have it happen in JLT3 than Round 1... as long as don't make the same mistakes again!

Thank god someone else sees that. Subi is longer not wider but your point is right. Our pressure was ok but the Eagles were just able to spread so much on the really long ground in any other stadium the would have run our of space. Its the reason they are so dominant at home and so poor away.

Funny how the Hawks who have been the best ball users of the comp for the past 5 years are the ones who can consitantly beat the eagles over there. Dogs in the EF and Adelaide late in 2016 both had really low turnover numbers in their wins over there. 

[dazzledavey36 54,215]

2 minutes ago, loges said:

How did Weideman go and is he up to it for round 1?

Nope he needs time in the VFL. The 3 JTL games were perfect experience for him. Now id much rather him continue to develop in the VFL and use Pedersen/Spencer as our tall forward.