Top four teams can afford to take a punt on players like Vickery. We're too young and don't have players who regularly stand up in tough games, we can't afford to take a punt on these sort of players.

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

One reason Clarko is a genius is because he's trained up a fleet of flexible players whilst also creating a lot of set roles and patterns of play that disguise limitations of players. 

Puopolo, Breust, McEvoy, Frawley, there's plenty who have simple jobs and excel at parts of the game plan. 

Vickery is 26 so he's young enough to find a bit of improvement, young enough to find a bit in the body whilst old enough to have AFL fitness under his belt. He's 200cm so he can pinch hit in the ruck. He's big and strong enough to attack the ball as a deep forward. He'll do all of that and with better training, fitness, standards etc he'll probably do it well. 

Most importantly he's a free agent so if the compo is right and Richmond don't match he'll be free! That means the Hawks can spend big on Mitchell or O'Meara and don't have to worry about replacing Roughy or Ceglar for the year.

The Hawks since about 2010 have been the masters of spending big on blue chip prospects and finding what they need elsewhere for budget price. That's where Vickery fits.

Clarkson also invented hack football. Don't bother contesting under extreme pressure. Keep moving the ball along anyway you can. They structure well for the chaos ball. No other club does it. Leadership, discipline and organisation they have in bucket loads.

Edited September 1, 20168 yr by america de cali

42 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Top four teams can afford to take a punt on players like Vickery. We're too young and don't have players who regularly stand up in tough games, we can't afford to take a punt on these sort of players.

I don't see Vickery as a punt, clubs by now know what they're getting.

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

Clarkson also invented hack football. Don't bother contesting under extreme pressure. Keep moving the ball along anyway you can. They structure well for the chaos ball. No other club does it. Leadership, discipline and organisation they have in bucket loads.

You mustn't have seen the 1988 GF.

Although it was probably more bulldozer football. I remember a centre bounce they just pushed the ball forward, no possession until the goal.

2 hours ago, rjay said:

The Hawks don't get them all right either...so hold that thought.

Hawthorn really have to punt on everyone likely in FA.  Their list is going off a cliff and it only costs them salary cap which they'll have plenty of.

18 minutes ago, rjay said:

You mustn't have seen the 1988 GF.

Although it was probably more bulldozer football. I remember a centre bounce they just pushed the ball forward, no possession until the goal.

I was at that nightmare. Can't  remember that play well as I was behind the goals on the other side. They crunched us in every other way also.  This style of football has only come back in recent years and only they seem to be doing it as a deliberate tactic. Look at Sam Mitchell, he hacks the ball everytime to avoid a hard contested possession whilst our Jones always takes possession and gets buried by tacklers.

Edited September 1, 20168 yr by america de cali

How do people rate Vickery compared to Pedders and Dawes? Ultimately that's those are the two players he would be competing for a spot for. 

Depending on his asking price I see him as an option to look at, I'd have him at least on par with both of them with probably more scope for improvement. 

Still feels like a no for me, but wouldn't surprise me if we're considering him. 

I think the Hawks may be losing the plot. Vickery might have been carried by them last year but not from next year onwards. 

A poor player

4 hours ago, DubDee said:

I think the Hawks may be losing the plot. Vickery might have been carried by them last year but not from next year onwards. 

A poor player

that's pretty much why i am happy for them to take him - he's not going to help keep them as a topline club, because he's never shown the ability to do anything other than flash in, flash out - never any consistency, and his workrate from contest to contest let alone game to game is abysmal.

 

the hawks are looking to bring in tom mitchell and tyrone vickery as their big signings next year. it's not exactly shaun burgoyne and jack gunston, is it?

May say more about the chances of Roughy coming back.

Some of these posts make it sounds like we must have one of Vickery or Dawes!

We don't have to have either, one is on our list currently, the other is not. If we get rid of Dawes it doesn't mean we must now have Vickery.

 

On 3 September 2016 at 6:27 AM, hells bells said:

May say more about the chances of Roughy coming back.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when Vickery's name came up.

Hope Roughy's responding well to treatment. 

Richmond might match Hawks offer to Vickery:  http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/richmond-is-considering-matching-hawthorns-free-agent-offer-for-tyrone-vickery-to-force-a-trade/news-story/c2825a5bf80032344307ae64a8fc66cf

Doesn't sound like they really want to keep him - just scared that the Hawks offer to him is so low they won't get a decent compensation pick. 

If they match the offer it forces Hawks into a trade.  It puts a spanner in the works of Hawks recruiting plan if they have to trade for him - they will have less to use for Mitchell and O'Meara.

A bit like the Dangerfield/Geelong situation - By matching the offer it forces the receiving club to 'pay' for the player rather than get them 'free' as an FA.

A reasonable ploy by Tigers.  I like it - anything that makes the top clubs pay for their FA's is a good thing.

On 9/2/2016 at 6:07 AM, america de cali said:

Clarkson also invented hack football. Don't bother contesting under extreme pressure. Keep moving the ball along anyway you can. They structure well for the chaos ball. No other club does it. Leadership, discipline and organisation they have in bucket loads.

Good post, but I reckon there's a lot of Brisbane Lions 2001-04 in that tactic.  Interestingly, that's who Clarkson wanted to model his list on when he first started. 

I personally wouldn't mind Vickery at the Dee's. Watts will get killed one day in the ruck. Pederson and Dawes not up to it. Spencer is no good up forward. 

Would have liked Gawn playing 75% ruck time and Vickery maybe 25%. How hard would Gawn be to match up on as a forward?  Might throw a few teams out. 

We need someone to help in the ruck, I've never rated Vickery but as a free agent he must be worth a look in.

Prefer we recruit smart footballers instead.

9 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We need someone to help in the ruck, I've never rated Vickery but as a free agent he must be worth a look in.

Reading between the lines of Mahoney on Trade Radio today, it sounds like we'll be targeting a forward/ruck type in the trade/FA period, and that will determine whether Dawes gets offered a contract.

 

Edited October 3, 20168 yr by stuie

zac clarke or ty vickery?

I think a forward/ruckman is essential. Vickery is inconsistent but I would like to see is make a strong play for him. He would improve our list, our flexibility and gives Gawn support. That or Tippett where Sydney still pays 40% of the salary (they may go for it to retain Mitchell).

future first round pick i'd imagine for tippett? he's clearly the superior footballer to vickery or clarke, but he's also on double the wage.

1 minute ago, Choko said:

I think a forward/ruckman is essential. Vickery is inconsistent but I would like to see is make a strong play for him. He would improve our list, our flexibility and gives Gawn support. That or Tippett where Sydney still pays 40% of the salary (they may go for it to retain Mitchell).

Living in sydney i have seen a bit of Tippett. First he does cop a few injuries but this year he was more than handy for the swans. He really is a forward who has had to ruck. The swans have so much mid talent the have got away without a top ruck for a while. I think he would be a plus to us however it doed underline the importance of mids mids mids.

23 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

future first round pick i'd imagine for tippett? he's clearly the superior footballer to vickery or clarke, but he's also on double the wage.

I'd offer up a third round pick.

Something tells me he might be a good pick up. Strange feeling as I have never been a  fan.

But he fills a huge need for us.

1 minute ago, Petraccattack said:

Something tells me he might be a good pick up. Strange feeling as I have never been a  fan.

But he fills a huge need for us.

He could not fill the same need at the Tigers why would he at the MFC?