AFL vs EPL

[Demonsone 2,037]

The EPL often gets labelled that it's dominated buy3-4 teams & it's about the $$$ they can buy players etc vs the Afl who have equalisation policies .. Let's compare over the last decade below!

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

Dominance in an equal competition is not that hard (perhaps even easier) when some are more equal than others. You just need an edge

Interstate teams = Home ground advantage

Top teams = ability to retain players who are willing to take a few dollars less to be part of  a winning team

Wealthy teams= just that little bit more support/comfort for the player

Teams with high membership numbers= ability to sell reserved seats= higher revenues

Successful teams = TV coverage/ratings = sponsors

Hard for the lesser bracket to get a run

[Chris 2,892]

The period you have looked at for the AFL is heavily skewed by the effect of the two new teams. If you do the same thing going back 25 years (around when the draft and cap came in) then you get a very different picture, which is closer to what the AFL will be like once it settles again. That is if free agency doesn't stuff everything, which it may do. 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

This week it's Port v Hawthorn then Geelong v Sydney in the Thursday-Friday night games.

Next week's it's Sydney v Hawthorn and Fremantle v Geelong.

Can't wait.

And by "can't wait", I mean "can't wait for a fixture where prime time games aren't just 5 or 6 clubs playing each other every week.

[Demonsone 2,037]

L

10 minutes ago, Chris said:

The period you have looked at for the AFL is heavily skewed by the effect of the two new teams. If you do the same thing going back 25 years (around when the draft and cap came in) then you get a very different picture, which is closer to what the AFL will be like once it settles again. That is if free agency doesn't stuff everything, which it may do. 

Numbers don't lie & the 90s I dare say was perhaps the most even with more teams wing flags.. 

[Demonsone 2,037]

Since the failed merger Hawks 4 flags & 5 GFs vs MFC 1 gf .. Very sad!

[John Demonic 5,797]

4 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Since the failed merger Hawks 4 flags & 5 GFs vs MFC 1 gf .. Very sad!

They have our ex-players to thank for all of those flags! I consider those premierships to be a like a Melbourne guernsey with a velcro Hawk

Edited July 7, 2016 by johndemons

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

26 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

L

Numbers don't lie & the 90s I dare say was perhaps the most even with more teams wing flags.. 

The 90's featured two interstate startup teams and the usual suspects from Victoria.  Essendon, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Carlton all had wins.  The only outlier was North.  Seems to me that the status was pretty damn Quo back then as well. 

Then of course we hit the Naughties, where we had the Bombers again, then six years of interstate super-teams before the Geelong/Hawthorn era kicked in. 

[Deefiant 441]

1 hour ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

The 90's featured two interstate startup teams and the usual suspects from Victoria.  Essendon, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Carlton all had wins.  The only outlier was North.  Seems to me that the status was pretty damn Quo back then as well. 

Then of course we hit the Naughties, where we had the Bombers again, then six years of interstate super-teams before the Geelong/Hawthorn era kicked in. 

You've named 10/16 teams in that statement... I'm guessing you would be pleased if they gave a premiership at the start season to the next team alphabetically. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Deefiant

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

6 minutes ago, Deefiant said:

You've named 10/16 teams in that statement... I'm guessing you would be pleased if they gave a premiership at the start season to the next team alphabetically. 

I have.  I have also categorised them. We have a group of traditionally wealthy Victorian clubs, and we have whichever interstate side is getting a leg-up at the time. Anyone else has to be damn lucky to get a shot.

[praha 11,240]

Since 1990:

Grand Finals

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 2

Collingwood - 5

Essendon - 4

Fremantle - 1

Geelong - 7

Hawthorn - 6

Melbourne - 1

North - 3

Port - 2

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 3

Sydney - 5

West Coast - 6

Bulldogs - 0

 

Premierships

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 1

Collingwood - 2

Essendon - 2

Fremantle - 0

Geelong - 3

Hawthorn - 5

Melbourne - 0

North - 2

Port - 1

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 0

Sydney - 2

West Coast - 3

Bulldogs - 0

 

I don't know, I don't think it's that "skewed". Geelong didn't win a flag for 40 years and superb drafting and patience paid off. Hawthorn was the same. Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton have been okay, not great, and all have been down for long periods between flags. North has been consistently good and always kind of relevant, Port managed a flag as a minnow club, St Kilda has 26 spoons but someone manages to rebuild and make Grand Finals. Melbourne had its chance in 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, but either bad luck, bad scheduling or just [censored] managed ruined it. It happens. We've had our chances, and we didn't take them.

We're seeing now that the teams that are "up", are "up" for longer because it's easier for them to attract agents and retain players. What this does is ensure clubs like Melbourne are accountable for their finances and the way the club is managed. Can you imagine Cameron Schwab getting away with what he did between 2009 and 2013 for any longer than 12 months these days? The scrutiny is far more intense, there is zero room for error. If Melbourne can't build a finals-caliber side with the rebuild, it will need to start again. You need to fail quickly in this league the way it is, otherwise you can't bounce back. 

Adelaide has lost so many players and yet are genuine flag contender this year. They're just a superb club. The Saints know how to managed rebuilds and they always find a way out. The Bulldogs were a nothing club two years ago and they're set for a flag in the next 2-3 years. 

GWS and GC have hurt teams like Melbourne, and imo they have contributed more to Hawthorn's, Geelong's and Sydney's recent dominance than any other league changes. 

[Chris 2,892]

10 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

L

Numbers don't lie & the 90s I dare say was perhaps the most even with more teams wing flags.. 

Oh yes they do. You can make numbers say what ever you like by selecting the ones that support your argument. That is what has happened here, probably not consciously though. If you want to look at the right sample look at the whole period the equalisation has been in place, not the period where it is compromised by other factors. 

[Chris 2,892]

29 minutes ago, praha said:

Since 1990:

Grand Finals

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 2

Collingwood - 5

Essendon - 4

Fremantle - 1

Geelong - 7

Hawthorn - 6

Melbourne - 1

North - 3

Port - 2

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 3

Sydney - 5

West Coast - 6

Bulldogs - 0

 

Premierships

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 1

Collingwood - 2

Essendon - 2

Fremantle - 0

Geelong - 3

Hawthorn - 5

Melbourne - 0

North - 2

Port - 1

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 0

Sydney - 2

West Coast - 3

Bulldogs - 0

 

I don't know, I don't think it's that "skewed". Geelong didn't win a flag for 40 years and superb drafting and patience paid off. Hawthorn was the same. Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton have been okay, not great, and all have been down for long periods between flags. North has been consistently good and always kind of relevant, Port managed a flag as a minnow club, St Kilda has 26 spoons but someone manages to rebuild and make Grand Finals. Melbourne had its chance in 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, but either bad luck, bad scheduling or just [censored] managed ruined it. It happens. We've had our chances, and we didn't take them.

We're seeing now that the teams that are "up", are "up" for longer because it's easier for them to attract agents and retain players. What this does is ensure clubs like Melbourne are accountable for their finances and the way the club is managed. Can you imagine Cameron Schwab getting away with what he did between 2009 and 2013 for any longer than 12 months these days? The scrutiny is far more intense, there is zero room for error. If Melbourne can't build a finals-caliber side with the rebuild, it will need to start again. You need to fail quickly in this league the way it is, otherwise you can't bounce back. 

Adelaide has lost so many players and yet are genuine flag contender this year. They're just a superb club. The Saints know how to managed rebuilds and they always find a way out. The Bulldogs were a nothing club two years ago and they're set for a flag in the next 2-3 years. 

GWS and GC have hurt teams like Melbourne, and imo they have contributed more to Hawthorn's, Geelong's and Sydney's recent dominance than any other league changes. 

The first bolded bit contradicts the last and the second bolded bit shows the evidence of it. 

The league has been skewed int eh last 6-7 years because the tool to do a rebuild were removed from the bottom clubs, this meant the clubs who were at the top then had an easier time of continuing their dominance. That is what you have said as well. It is starting to go back to normal now with the dogs rising, and us and the Saints slowly rising too. 

This bias wasn't anywhere near as obvious with the new clubs in the 90's as they didn't get anywhere near the same start up benefits. 

[Chris 2,892]

34 minutes ago, praha said:

Since 1990:

Grand Finals

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 2

Collingwood - 5

Essendon - 4

Fremantle - 1

Geelong - 7

Hawthorn - 6

Melbourne - 1

North - 3

Port - 2

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 3

Sydney - 5

West Coast - 6

Bulldogs - 0

 

Premierships

Adelaide - 2

Carlton - 1

Collingwood - 2

Essendon - 2

Fremantle - 0

Geelong - 3

Hawthorn - 5

Melbourne - 0

North - 2

Port - 1

Richmond - 0

St Kilda - 0

Sydney - 2

West Coast - 3

Bulldogs - 0

 

You missed Brisbane as well. 4 GF's and 3 flags. 

All in all over a 25 year period 14 of 16 clubs have made a GF and 12 of 16 have won at least 1. That isn't bad going at all. 

[P-man 13,366]

It's not perfect, certainly not over the last decade. No doubt there are improvements that can be made.

However, the AFL is far more, and I mean FAR MORE, equal than the EPL. There is no comparing the two.

[DubDee 25,886]

I think what the OP shows is that the AFL may be trending towards power clubs. Free agency is the main reason behind this I think - imagine if the Hawks didnt keep topping up their list, no way they would have still won 3 in a row. Will we see the hawks out of the finals in the next 5 years?  if not, the system is broke

The EPL is trending the other way which is great (still massively dominated by certain clubs).  this is mainly do to the mid tier clubs getting taken over. West Ham, Stoke, etc are attracting great players so it great for the league over there

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney, who were already at the top of the table, basically had any opposition slaughtered by the concessions gifted to the two new teams.

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

Ok... here's one minor equalization goal

If we have to play in far away places such as Darwin and NT... why are those games not scheduled as Friday (I'd accept Thursday) night games with national free to air coverage. Could not be any worse than some of the games in those scheduled times this year

Small thing but compare it to Port playing in China... no home game loss ( we lose two home games)... a season opener with a big break afterwards and of course mega coverage for their sponsors.

As I contend .........some clubs are more equal than others

Perhaps the Bulldogs will buck the system but like the Saints my gut feeling is that they will be bridesmaids. The Saints had Riewoldt....one of the greatest players in the last twenty years and yet ??

North, the MFC, Bulldogs, Saints ........... we are all TV fodder to make up the numbers for the Foxtel deals

The next set of draft concessions will go to Brisbane (one can feel it)

 

 

[stuie 7,374]

EPL players pretend they're hurt, AFL players pretend they're not.

There's your difference...

 

[Demonsone 2,037]

13 hours ago, P-man said:

It's not perfect, certainly not over the last decade. No doubt there are improvements that can be made.

However, the AFL is far more, and I mean FAR MORE, equal than the EPL. There is no comparing the two.

Numbers don't lie .. Hawks,cats,swans have won 9 out of the last eleven flags! 

Leicsester were facing relegation & then won the Title a year later! 

Afl have  draft & salary cap to even the competition out & it was set up in 1986 to stop clubs going broke & stop the dominance by power clubs.. Currently it's not working!

Edited July 8, 2016 by Hogan2014