Tom McDonald needs to take a good hard look at himself.

[martin 727]

52 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Would love to read the posters that wrote that, wow. That's full-on.

I reckon you'll be searching the thread for a while though..

 

"I reckon you shouldn't be allowed to post an opinion unless you have demonstrated some intelligence & knowledge of the game".

 

So I guess you shouldn't be posting.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

The humorous thing about this thread is the extremities in views about yesterday's game and Tom McDonald's game.

There are those of us pointing directly at McDonald's weakness as a player and focusing on that, there are those who choose to rebut that point entirely because of the strengths he does possess as a player. Then you've got posters exaggerating the words of the critical posters, and conversely you've got the critical posters exaggerating the words of the defending posters. Right up until 'Ricky P' makes a really solid contribution: 

'Like all guns, he (McDonald) doesn't give a [censored] about the NAB cup'.

That one was particularly funny. Great job Ricky.

Here's the truth. Tom McDonald possesses some traits that would be termed 'elite' for a key defender. His contested spoiling, marking and negating are generally top level. Generally. I'm almost certain every Melbourne supporter would agree with that. These are the areas of his game that he is recognised for in the wider AFL community and are the reason he is talked up as one of the most promising young key defenders in the competition. 

If everyone is on the same page with that information and in agreeance, why in the name of the lord do posters have a problem with other posters making the most valid of points on a day in which the point had to be made: The fact that McDonald contributed three goals to the opposition team due to basic kicking and decision making skills yesterday. Something which he is notoriously known for. Below average kicking and decision making skills. When a single member of your team gives three goals away along with other scoring opportunities due to direct turnovers I think it is absolutely fair that the microscope is pointed straight at him. Especially given the history he has with these particular weaknesses. 

I cannot for the life of me understand why so many choose to vehemently defend the bloke nor can I understand why posters who should rightly point these things out are lambasted for it.

If we are serious about wanting to improve as a side, you simply cannot have a player in your team make these same errors over and over again unless you are playing at Hawthorn. That is not an exaggeration. It is the darn god truth. McDonald kicked a ball out on the full yesterday by trying to hit a target he should not be trying to hit. There were safer options for someone of his skill-level. These are things that he should know at his level of experience. If people are willing to argue against any of that, then you're literally insane. 

A kicking error here and there are absolutely forgivable. Salem, Harmes, Jones. These guys all made turnovers yesterday. 

But it's the regularity of these blunders that are genuinely worrying for McDonald. Not only that, what is equally as worrying is that he is seemingly unaware of this glaring weakness in his game. He could minimize so many of these turnovers by either giving off a handball to a player with a better kick or just generally going the safe option when he is kicking. That screams to me that he isn't very composed and struggles to think clearly when under pressure.

None of this post is pot-shotting McDonald. It's fair and it's considered. It's just being honest. And again to be clear, the 'worry' is not these isolated incidents (although three goals gifted to the opposition from one player is pretty worrying), but it's McDonald's general career to date. He has not, and is not improving these areas.

And that is [censored] worrying. 

There are others yes, and that also contributes to the 'worry'.

Edited March 7, 2016 by stevethemanjordan

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 minute ago, martin said:

"I reckon you shouldn't be allowed to post an opinion unless you have demonstrated some intelligence & knowledge of the game".

 

So I guess you shouldn't be posting.

 

Read ^^^

Would love to know what you think..

[beelzebub 23,372]

23 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Err what part of intelligence and knowledge that was needed to see in broad daylight that McDonald had about 6 kicks that resulted in direct turnovers and goals. 

I swear some of you blokes are so simple! The main subject of this topic is that how on earth for 6 years that McDonald is still a horrible kick and decision maker. He is now a senior player close to 100 games of AFL footy. It seems in fact he has gotten worse.

I have not once question his defending ability as he is nearly A grade in that department. The big problem is that he doesn't know his own limitations and by that he always undo his good work by costing us crucial goals by horrendous disposal.

My big worry is when we do play September he will cost us some very crucial goals from very bad turnovers. Instead of worrying about contracts and seeing whether Jesse Hogan will sign on maybe he needs to pull his finger out of his ass and worry about his own performance because he is just as much part of the problem.

Go and take that knowledge tests and tell us how you go.. i think even you will surprise yourself. FMD

Is very hard to argue much of this if one takes a realistic view.  ^ odd years in the system and he still cant kick  consistently well.   If we as a team are to advance we need everyone able to kick to at least a better than capable level. Not everyone will be elite and players do have off days.   They werent the best conditions for footy yesterday but EVERYONE there that was playing had the same shlt to put up with. Some are obviously far more capable at kicking than others.

Some players can allow for the 'breeze'  some just seem lost at sea. Tom needs a lot of help in the kicking dept,,,at least when hes kicking away from goals.

Like it or not he would have been our most costliest player yesterday. That needs to stop.

[Deestar9 1,619]

"Fair and considered " ...yes may well be, but it is your opinion & quite frankly such "fair & considered " opinions in lengthy detail seem a mass over reaction to a NAB cup match

where the results are irrelevant. It is a bit like the people going on about 14 or so best players missing ....who cares ....I'm sure our club is still working on the makeup of our best players so happy just to get a win so players get used to winning & not losing

[beelzebub 23,372]

21 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

"Fair and considered " ...yes may well be, but it is your opinion & quite frankly such "fair & considered " opinions in lengthy detail seem a mass over reaction to a NAB cup match

where the results are irrelevant. It is a bit like the people going on about 14 or so best players missing ....who cares ....I'm sure our club is still working on the makeup of our best players so happy just to get a win so players get used to winning & not losing

anyone who thinks the disappointment in Toms game is viewed as being isolated in occasion  must have been in a cave for the last 6 years

I thought STMJ post actually hit  nail on head.

[H_T 3,047]

Yes, he's not elite when it comes to effective disposal by foot. Granted, yesterday's conditions were tricky - yet it's apparent that it can't be an excuse. There were many on both teams that missed their targets, including some MFC players who are held in high regard for their disposal.

It's a practice match. I'd prefer to look at the promising competitive form and game style they're implementing at the present time - where errors are going to come taking the game on and not wasting time - you can take that to the bank. Instead of sweating over the small stuff.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

I listened on the radio and used my live pass during breaks, so I am not allowed to comment on a public forum, interesting, wasn't defending him, -said he had an off day with his disposall, which unfortunately he still does now and again     when he has these games even I look away when he looks to dispose

The coaches are working with him, for some reason they have had their hands full in the last couple of years

He is a great one on one player and intrecept mark, as he develops will accept the 'over reaching'  he will stop more goals than he gives away 

He has still only played 80 gamesl

Perhaps you needed a new target with Jack Watts and Matt Jones playing well

Edited March 7, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Pates 9,660]

4 hours ago, ManDee said:

A pet hate of mine is when people make comments about a game when they did not see it. (I did - twice-TV only)

McDonald defended well but his disposal was not good. NB:- Salem & Watts both butchered the ball yesterday and they are elite users of the ball. I don't think we have a better key defender, perhaps Hogan but he isn't going back full time. We need to work with McDonald until someone better comes along.

I am one that has critiqued him in this post without seeing the game but it was a general critique based on what I've seen in the past. 

I should also say that at his best he is an AA defender, he was killing it last year until Cloke pulled his 1 in 22 games performance against us, he didn't seem the be able to regain his confidence. That's not an excuse by the way, the best defenders are able to shake off bad days and get on with the job. But he is very important to the team and the teams future.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Pates

[beelzebub 23,372]

5 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I listened on the radio and used my live pass during breaks, so I am not allowed to comment on a public forum, interesting, wasn't defending him, -said he had an off day with his disposall, which unfortunately he still does now and again     when he has these games even I look away when he looks to dispose

The coaches are working with him, for some reason they have had their hands full in the last couple of years

He is a great one on one player and intrecept mark, as he develops will accept the 'over reaching'  he will stop more goals than he gives away 

He has still only played 80 gamesl

Perhaps you needed a new target with Jack Watts and Matt Jones playing well

They need to work harder

[Farmer 883]

22 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Absolutely appalling today. Don't care the slightest that its a practise game. the bigger issue is he has been on our list for 6 years yet he cannot kick to save himself. He has cost us at least nearly 5 goals from direct turnovers and he will continue to kill us in games this year. Time and time again he tries to be too cute. He needs to know his limitations and keep it simple and give off the first option.

Also if he wants to hold off on extending his contract then he seriously needs to pull his finger out of his ass because he is part of the problem we are killed in games from costly turnovers.

Needs to lift, he was horrendous today.

 

Look, settle down. It was a practice match. I suspect McDonald has been working on his kicking over the summer. These are the situations in which he needs to test himself. As it turned out it was hot and blustery and many players on both sides stuffed up. If he plays v St K, let him test himself again. If it is still bad, then he knows, as an intelligent player, that once we get into R1 it has to be safety first, either a decent hand pass. , or a long kick along the lines

senior players have to try things in matches such as these or the opportunity is wasted

[beelzebub 23,372]

Oh....I get it...Its a practice match....we dont really play footy ...you can just kick like shlt because everyone has a golden ticket.

 

silly me

[nutbean 8,838]

I find Tom Mc's disposal indiscretions interesting. Give him a split second to dispose of the ball and he does alright. The minute he has time and starts to think about what he wants to do with the ball it seems to go wrong. 

[dazzledavey36 54,932]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

Look, settle down. It was a practice match. I suspect McDonald has been working on his kicking over the summer. These are the situations in which he needs to test himself. As it turned out it was hot and blustery and many players on both sides stuffed up. If he plays v St K, let him test himself again. If it is still bad, then he knows, as an intelligent player, that once we get into R1 it has to be safety first, either a decent hand pass. , or a long kick along the lines

senior players have to try things in matches such as these or the opportunity is wasted

Test himself for what exactly? You people are seriously missing the point. First of all it isn't going to change at all against St Kilda and magically start drilling low fat 40m kicks. His last 2 weeks has been appalling with his ball use. Not to mention that for 6 years he hasn't improved his kicking and decision making one bit.

He is not an intelligent player at all. Why? because he is yet to understand his limitations and tries to bite off more then he can chew.

[waynewussell 5,746]

I can't read some of the 'analysis' here... but at the risk of repeating someone else's post, here's a few facts.

Tom McDonald had more disposals on Sunday than any opposition player bar one!

Tom McDonald will be highly sought after by many opposition clubs, including top four clubs, as soon as he becomes available!

The MFC will have the retaining of Tom McDonald very high on it's list of priorities moving forward.

Yes, we are aware of some weaknesses with disposal, but they have been blown out of all proportion here!

 

[beelzebub 23,372]

7 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

I can't read some of the 'analysis' here... but at the risk of repeating someone else's post, here's a few facts.

Tom McDonald had more disposals on Sunday than any opposition player bar one!

Tom McDonald will be highly sought after by many opposition clubs, including top four clubs, as soon as he becomes available!

The MFC will have the retaining of Tom McDonald very high on it's list of priorities moving forward.

Yes, we are aware of some weaknesses with disposal, but they have been blown out of all proportion here!

 

And Footscray say Thankyou very much !!  

[Ethan Tremblay 30,859]

7 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

I can't read some of the 'analysis' here... but at the risk of repeating someone else's post, here's a few facts.

Tom McDonald had more disposals on Sunday than any opposition player bar one!

Tom McDonald will be highly sought after by many opposition clubs, including top four clubs, as soon as he becomes available!

The MFC will have the retaining of Tom McDonald very high on it's list of priorities moving forward.

Yes, we are aware of some weaknesses with disposal, but they have been blown out of all proportion here!

 

I agree with everything you've posted here Wayne except for the last line. Nothing here as ever been blown out of proportion. Ever.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, martin said:

There are those who love every player that has ever worn a Melbourne jumper,no matter what. Blinkered.

Yes, I'm sure there are people like that.

There are also poor, misguided souls such as yourself that are ready to draw and quarter a player after a bad practice match.

Yes, he has deficiencies. But you know what? 

He's also a 23-year-old key defender who has twice finished top 3 in the Best & Fairest and last year was in contention for All-Australian, despite us again conceding an exorbitant amount of inside 50s. 

Get a grip.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Scythe

[Slartibartfast 17,274]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Test himself for what exactly? You people are seriously missing the point. First of all it isn't going to change at all against St Kilda and magically start drilling low fat 40m kicks. His last 2 weeks has been appalling with his ball use. Not to mention that for 6 years he hasn't improved his kicking and decision making one bit.

He is not an intelligent player at all. Why? because he is yet to understand his limitations and tries to bite off more then he can chew.

Dazzle would you delist him?

[BAMF 4,352]

8 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Happy to wait and judge him after a few games in the home and away season. I'm not going to get carried away and call for his head after two NAB practice games.

Yep.

Or we could get upset because he missed targets at practice and needs to work on his kicking at practice. Even though he made the mistakes at practice. Wait a min.....

[dazzledavey36 54,932]

4 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Would you delist him?

That's just a stupid question mate hence why I didn't answer the first time

Of course you wouldn't 'delist' him. No one would. But he has a big weakness that he needs to work on.

Pretty simple really.

Edited March 7, 2016 by dazzledavey36

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

That's just a stupid question mate hence why I didn't answer the first time

Of course you wouldn't 'delist' him. No one would. But he has a big weakness that he needs to work on.

Pretty simple really.

As do most 23 year old key position players. Do you think he isn't?

Young player, has a deficiency, is working on it. No need for hysterics.

Pretty simple really.

 

[BAMF 4,352]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

That's just a stupid question mate hence why I didn't answer the first time

Of course you wouldn't 'delist' him. No one would. But he has a big weakness that he needs to work on.

Pretty simple really.

So he needs to work on his kicking at practice? You do realise that is exactly what he was doing on the weekend? His kicking is terrible. But its not going to get better unless he improves at training and then test it out in PRACTICE games. Sunday was not a good sign but at least he is working on it. Lets cool the jets until he does it in the main event.

[Ted Lasso 19,517]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

As do most 23 year old key position players. Do you think he isn't?

Young player, has a deficiency, is working on it. No need for hysterics.

Pretty simple really.

 

He just needs to understand he isn't a great kick, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good player, he just needs to take the first option rather than trying to do to much 

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Peter Griffen said:

He just needs to understand he isn't a great kick, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good player, he just needs to take the first option rather than trying to do to much 

I'm sure he does understand that, and I'm sure the coaches do too, which is why I'm sure he's still working on it.

As I said earlier, I rate TMac's work ethic right up there with our captain's, and his skills were pretty poor up until about the age 25, so let him keep working away.