Morton or Toumpas

[daisycutter 28,567]

why don't we all have a big cry

it will do wonders

[Sir Why You Little 34,531]

Gee you must be fun at parties...

Far mor fun than watching the MFC right now...

[jazza 1,323]

Gee you must be fun at parties...

Show's his liver transplant scars and talk's about the revolutionary skin re-attachment.

I for one quite enjoy the stories.he never breaks into footy stuff though.

[Sir Why You Little 34,531]

Show's his liver transplant scars and talk's about the revolutionary skin re-attachment.

I for one quite enjoy the stories.he never breaks into footy stuff though.

World Whiskey day

Woo Hoo

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

why don't we all have a big cry

it will do wonders

I did that last year after the GWS loss, it didn't help

[jackaub 1,402]

why don't you waste your time & take out your anger by bagging cCameron & bPrenderghast, instead of a young kid who is struggling at this point.

have a go at a 24 yr old, not a boy in a mans game, who has just ticked over 21... he has 18 months in my book to look like an AFL player.

Deluded

[P-man 13,205]

Gee you must be fun at parties...

If the party needed a broken record player he'd come in handy.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

If the party needed a broken record player he'd come in handy.

And no party needs that,,,

[Demon3 2,541]

I like to think I'm pretty considered, and when you wear a demon jumper then I will back you and back you until I can't back you anymore. Toump seems like a great Kid, and he is 20 games into a career that has so far delivered nothing. Not one game where I have thought, there is something to work with. He is not a bad player, but the trouble is he shows no signs of being a good player.

It's a bust, I know it's early, but cut our losses, let's get him involved in a trade scenario with a SA club that might become an important pawn in a Sloane type of deal.

The irony of this us that we have a player who is on our list who's start to this year has been as disgraceful as I can remember. Jeremy Howe should be dropped and not come back. At least Frawley ayes well last year. If he had Toumps attitude and personality then he would be a valuable player, right now he makes me furious every time I watch.

This club has shown improvement this year, horrible 3 week stretch against the top 3 clubs, shocking yesterday, but I have always thought this yeat is the first year of our rebuild, not last year, our best 16 is good, our bottom 6 is still weak, and our depth is shallow. But this year we have got a core group that is talented and represents the future, next year we add to that which pushes some dead weight out and then our depth runs a bit deeper, by the time Goodwin takes over we will have depth, to match our talent.

No one likes it, but this is part of the plan.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Demon3

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,157]

Talk of cutting out losses one third of the way through a season is ridiculous.

He is our scapegoat and its tiresome and short sighted.

[Demon3 2,541]

Scapegoat is the term on this site and with Melbourne supporters that does my head in the most. Toumpas is not a scapegoat, Toumpas is a young player that has so far disappointed most.Time to face facts, and mark my words, if we don't cut our losses at the end of the year, then we will regret it.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,157]

End of the year is a long way away though- so we shouldn't really be cutting out loses now should we?

[Demon3 2,541]

Yeah I see your point, but that's also my point in my argument, I don't believe he will improve enough to make it impossible for the club not to entertain trading him. I would love to be proved wrong, would love him to gave 10 games where he shows something.. But honestly, ask yourself, do you think he will do that?

[Macca 16,173]

Yeah I see your point, but that's also my point in my argument, I don't believe he will improve enough to make it impossible for the club not to entertain trading him. I would love to be proved wrong, would love him to gave 10 games where he shows something.. But honestly, ask yourself, do you think he will do that?

The draft is an ass.

You're argument seems to be based on the draft being accurate - and it's not. Never has been in fact. If you and others were to judge players as recruits only, you'd see things differently.

Are you fully capable of putting the top end draft pick number aside? ... be careful how you answer that because I've asked numerous people over the years (whether they can put a top end draft's pick number aside) and not one person is able to do it easily.

It's even hard for me and I spend a lot of time rubbishing the draft.

If you're expecting A grade from a top end draft pick you shouldn't be - the facts, data and results back up that claim ...here's an example of the drafts from 2000 through to 2009 ... Bad Luck or Bad Recruiting

I know many like to think that it's impossible to muck up so many top end picks but I see that as an unintelligent way of looking at a poor system.

Lift the draft age by 2 years to 20 and we won't see anywhere near as many busts - lower the draft age to 15 or 16 and you'd see a truckload more busts. 17 or 18 years old is just simply too young an age to get the desired results from the draft.

Blame the system.

[Demon3 2,541]

I never mentioned the number he went at the draft, so not sure what your point is, but I agree it is hard to not factor that in when talking about expectation though.

Top 5, Top 10 or top 50.. The realisation should be starting to set in that Toumpas will end up being regarded as a waste choice.

[praha 10,283]

He's not AFL ready. I certainly can't see him ever being AFL ready, because he panics. Someone here called him Jimmy "Tampon". Seems about right.

I think that above all else, he doesn't have the mental capacity to make it at the top level. I don't question his skills or commitment, but the mind is a crazy thing and if you're mentally drained or incapable, you can be the most talented player ever and it won't matter, you'll crumble.

Seeing him cry, seeing him absolutely break down whenever there is the chance of contact, he simply does not have the mind of an AFL footballer.

If you can't see that, you're delusional.

Morton showed class and skill, much in the same way Watts has. And like Watts, and he been managed better, he'd have been a champion.

Toumpas was the wrong player to bring into a fractured club, because he's a fractured player. We needed a strong body and mind of a Wines. Toumpas was the last type of player we needed. That much is clear now.

Edited May 17, 2015 by praha

[Macca 16,173]

I never mentioned the number he went at the draft, so not sure what your point is, but I agree it is hard to not factor that in when talking about expectation though.

Top 5, Top 10 or top 50.. The realisation should be starting to set in that Toumpas will end up being regarded as a waste choice.

You don't have to mention his draft pick number - it's what you're not saying about other lower placed draft picks which is the issue.

Where was all the angst over Tynan, Taggert, Davis and co? Hardly a word.

There is no denying it - we do judge young recruits according to their draft pick number - over 125 threads on Watts, another 100 on Sylvia. Trengove the same.

We drafted Jayden Hunt at the end of 2013 yet I barely ever see his name even mentioned here. Of course, he was pick 57. That must be why - yeah?

.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Macca

[Macca 16,173]

Context has to nearly always be applied in a team game - it's not golf or tennis.

We had many players who didn't give a yelp yesterday - singling out one player is just nonsensical.

In fact, I could only find 4 decent players from yesterday's debacle - so 18* players didn't do enough. Simple maths.

*Salem was injured so he's excused. 17 then.

.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Macca

[Tony Tea 2,786]

Peak Demonland.

[praha 10,283]

You don't have to mention his draft pick number - it's what you're not saying about other lower placed draft picks which is the issue.

Where was all the angst over Tynan, Taggert, Davis and co? Hardly a word.

There is no denying it - we do judge young recruits according to their draft pick number - over 125 threads on Watts, another 100 on Sylvia. Trengove the same.

We drafted Jayden Hunt at the end of 2013 yet I barely ever see his name even mentioned here. Of course, he was pick 57. That must be why - yeah?

.

Well, yeah.

Draft position determines worth. The higher you are, the more valuable you are. The more potential. Pick 57 is a filler pick. If he becomes something, awesome, if not, it's not like we expected him to.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,157]

He's not AFL ready. I certainly can't see him ever being AFL ready, because he panics. Someone here called him Jimmy "Tampon". Seems about right.

That's hilarious and insightful!

You should forward that to BT and the boys at Saturday night football... Women are just the worst aren't they?

[Adzman 2,085]

Before I get started, let me just say I'm not for or against Jimmy T. My thoughts are as follows.

We are never going to get 100 cents to the dollar return on using pick 4 on him. That being said, how much we can salvage depends on how much of a run he gets in the senior side. He hasn't set the vfl on fire, nor has he shown glimpses of being a player. However, we really won't know if he is salvageable until he strings some senior performances together. I'm against gifting games to players, but there have been others on our list who have been gifted games due to injury or being in the right place at the right time so perhaps some leniency for Jimmy for a few games might be handy from an assessment perspective. As far as a reality check goes, after this string of games if he has not shown enough the club will need to look at doing the best thing for all parties and cut ties at seasons end.

I have no idea if he will make it, but as far as the Morton comparison goes it is irrelevant. I'm interested in talking about players who can help us, not dwelling on things that haven't worked in the past. Morton is yesterday's failure, let's move on.

[Macca 16,173]

Well, yeah.

Draft position determines worth. The higher you are, the more valuable you are. The more potential. Pick 57 is a filler pick. If he becomes something, awesome, if not, it's not like we expected him to.

I'm astonished that you and others have so much faith in a poor system (the draft)

You speak with such authority too - I see your view as utter nonsense. And I've had the same view for over 20 years - the proof in the pudding is in the eating. Have a look at any previous draft and come back and tell me that it's even semi accurate.

You and many others have been collectively brainwashed.

The concession I'll make is that the top 10 picks are almost certainly better prospects than the next 10 picks (and so on and so forth) However, there are still numerous busts within those blocks of 10 picks and top players continue to be drafted outside of the top 10 picks (who ordinarily would be top 10 picks if the drafting system was accurate)

.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Macca

[praha 10,283]

That's hilarious and insightful!

You should forward that to BT and the boys at Saturday night football... Women are just the worst aren't they?

No, women are great.

But they'd get crunched in a professional AFL match.

[Macca 16,173]

Cale Morton pick 4

Mitch Thorp pick 6

There's hundreds more examples of busts like those.

Tom McDonald pick 53

Adam Goodes pick 43

There's hundreds of other examples where good to top players were picked far too late.

How is the draft anything more than a rough guide? Every club (including his own club) passed on Fyfe - should we sack every recruiter who overlooked Fyfe? If the draft is accurate, all the recruiters should be held to account on this "mistake" alone .... x 200 other such "mistakes". That's a lot of sackings.

Toumpas was never supposed* to be a top player at AFL level - nothing is definite when it comes to drafting ... originally, he might have been and he could still be a good player. People here should have sold their shares in the draft long ago - clinging on to false hope and faith is largely pointless.

*For those confused by the word "supposed", I mean it in the sense that a top junior is not automatically going to become a gun AFL player. There are no such guarantees.

.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Macca