Have The Hawks become flat track bullies that wilt under pressure?

[rjay 24,923]

Hodge, Lewis, Frawley, lake.

Take the equivalent of those four out of any team and they will struggle.

Spot on. Like I said after game one when most were talking about the Hawks going through the season undefeated. Injuries will play a big role, I didn't expect stupidity (Hodge/Lewis) to add to it.

You could add Mitchell & Gibson missing the Essendon game.

The Hawk list is getting older they will need good luck with injury at the end of the season to win it again.

[Seraph 1,824]

The Hawk list is getting older they will need good luck with injury at the end of the season to win it again.

Just like Brisbane in 2003?

[Adzman 2,154]

The Hawks are showing signs of slowing down, but until we show signs of playing 4 quarters we shouldn't be thinking we can beat anyone.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Credit due to giants also

[jackaub 1,402]

Credit due to giants also

The Giants are ahead of us in development and hardness/ They can play 4 quarters and they have genuine stars!

Melbourne needs to come out next week and start well and maintain it for 4 quarters and not drop their bundle when the pressure builds.

I have serious concerns about the mental toughness exhibited by the team and this needs to be addressed.

[Little Richard 6,262]

Of the three games against Freo, Sydney and Hawthorn, the Hawks are who we have the best chance of beating. Mainly because of Hodge and Lewis being out of course.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

The Giants are ahead of us in development and hardness/ They can play 4 quarters and they have genuine stars!

Melbourne needs to come out next week and start well and maintain it for 4 quarters and not drop their bundle when the pressure builds.

I have serious concerns about the mental toughness exhibited by the team and this needs to be addressed.

That's not hard to do when you get years worth of high draft picks and extra salary cap room to throw money around. Even we would be half decent with all the concessions they've had over the last few years.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

Jumping the gun, Hawks are still a scary good side, just copped a few injuries

[jackaub 1,402]

That's not hard to do when you get years worth of high draft picks and extra salary cap room to throw money around. Even we would be half decent with all the concessions they've had over the last few years.

We have had plenty of concessions and financial support from the AFL

The problem has been that we wasted the opportunties afforded to us

[Macca 16,967]

We have had plenty of concessions and financial support from the AFL

The problem has been that we wasted the opportunties afforded to us

You also need luck with top end draft picks - we've had very little luck.

GWS were almost certainly going to draft A graders with the block of top end picks that they had - the luck was on their side. They had the probability factor in their favour.

The drafting system we have is not a great one - in fact, there's not that many good players to come out of any given draft.

Anyway, our luck seems to be turning and it will be some other club's turn to draft busts. Richmond went through it before us and their luck turned eventually. The Cats aren't drafting A graders like they once did despite having the same bloke in charge of recruiting - Stephen Wells.

Eventually, more people here will come to terms with the drafting system. Right now, it just doesn't work in the way that people want it to work.

It's just easier for people to point an accusing finger - apply logic and common sense and you'll see different outcomes.

[poita 3,902]

I think you'll find that the Hawks will travel in third gear until the middle of August. They'll vary their training loads, rest players and do whatever is necessary to have them primed for September. If that means losing a few games on the way through, so be it. The other side of the equation is that they'll probably unearth a few players, like Langford last year, who will be pretty important for them when it matters.

Can we beat them? No, not in a million years. Not until we start doing the simple things well, ie kicking goals from 20 metres out, being accountable for an opponent, making tackles stick.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

The hawks had plenty of injuries last year with a tough draw as well. They have very good depth

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

You also need luck with top end draft picks - we've had very little luck.

GWS were almost certainly going to draft A graders with the block of top end picks that they had - the luck was on their side. They had the probability factor in their favour.

The drafting system we have is not a great one - in fact, there's not that many good players to come out of any given draft.

Anyway, our luck seems to be turning and it will be some other club's turn to draft busts. Richmond went through it before us and their luck turned eventually. The Cats aren't drafting A graders like they once did despite having the same bloke in charge of recruiting - Stephen Wells.

Eventually, more people here will come to terms with the drafting system. Right now, it just doesn't work in the way that people want it to work.

It's just easier for people to point an accusing finger - apply logic and common sense and you'll see different outcomes.

Can't agree with this logic you keep bringing up Macca.

The draft system is fine.

The MFC were incompetent and plain wrong in how they used it?

[monoccular 17,428]

That's not hard to do when you get years worth of high draft picks and extra salary cap room to throw money around. Even we would be half decent with all the concessions they've had over the last few years.

We have had a fair bit of help over the years but, until recently, have not used them well.

That said, it was unfortunate that we were down and in need just when these two artificial teams were being built the AFL, getting the cream of several drafts.

[Macca 16,967]

Can't agree with this logic you keep bringing up Macca.

The draft system is fine.

The MFC were incompetent and plain wrong in how they used it?

So the draft system is fine is it? Are you being serious?

Kindly explain the hundreds of anomalies then ...

I don't even know where to start but let's go with a biggie ... Chris Grant at pick 105

Please explain

After you're done trying to explain that little beauty I've got another 300 examples to throw at you

Hope you've got plenty of time on your hands

.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

So the draft system is fine is it? Are you being serious?

Kindly explain the hundreds of anomolies then ...

I don't even know where to start but let's go with a biggie ... Chris Grant at pick 105

Please explain

After your done trying to explain that little beauty I've got another 300 examples to throw at you

Hope you"ve got plenty of time on your hands

How about you telling us all how you would fix it up rather than just making excuses for our DEPLORABLE RECRUITING over the last decade.

[rjay 24,923]

The hawks had plenty of injuries last year with a tough draw as well. They have very good depth

They were lucky with the timing of the injuries last year.

If Hodge, Mitchell and or Lewis missed a final it would be very difficult to near on impossible for them to win. Depth can't replace champions, if it could the depth players wouldn't be depth.

[Macca 16,967]

How about you telling us all how you would fix it up rather than just making excuses for our DEPLORABLE RECRUITING over the last decade.

There is no easy fix - I accept the draft for what it is. You want it to be something it can't be

Try answering the question on Grant.

[deanox 9,915]

Regardless of what the end result is this week, we need to come out with physical intent from the get go.

Bump and rough before the bounce, hit the early contests hard. Back each other up and don't be afraid to knock them over, even if or means giving away the odd free.

We can't afford to let them hit hard and first.

[sue 9,104]

You also need luck with top end draft picks - we've had very little luck.

GWS were almost certainly going to draft A graders with the block of top end picks that they had - the luck was on their side. They had the probability factor in their favour.

.,..

Agree. I'm not saying we haven't done poorly, but those who praise the GWS recruiting over ours need to look at the statistics. GWS got a very large number of high draft picks, we got a few. Given that not that many top picks end up top players, the more you have the better your chances. It is not like tattslotto where buying 4 tickets does increase your chances by a factor of 4, but your odds are still bugger-all.

[Macca 16,967]

Agree. I'm not saying we haven't done poorly, but those who praise the GWS recruiting over ours need to look at the statistics. GWS got a very large number of high draft picks, we got a few. Given that not that many top picks end up top players, the more you have the better your chances. It is not like tattslotto where buying 4 tickets does increase your chances by a factor of 4, but your odds are still bugger-all.

Some here just want to lash out at the club in a senseless fashion.

Drafting is such an inexact science - it is never consistently going to be what people want it to be.

We could draft well for the next 5 years and I wouldn"t change my stance ... unless, in the meantime, the draft was overhauled

[ManDee 7,145]

Some here just want to lash out at the club in a senseless fashion.

Drafting is such an inexact science - it is never consistently going to be what people want it to be.

We could draft well for the next 5 years and I wouldn"t change my stance ... unless, in the meantime, the draft was overhauled

Macca, how would you propose modifying the draft?

Perhaps a bigger problem is with selection rather that the draft itself. If Grant can be a late pick that is not a draft problem per se it is a selection problem, all clubs missed him several times. Players improve at different rates at different ages. Great juniors sometimes have reached their potential. I have not checked this but I would think most of the best 20 players in the comp would be top 20 pick. (excluding father sons)

[Macca 16,967]

Macca, how would you propose modifying the draft?

Perhaps a bigger problem is with selection rather that the draft itself. If Grant can be a late pick that is not a draft problem per se it is a selection problem, all clubs missed him several times. Players improve at different rates at different ages. Great juniors sometimes have reached their potential. I have not checked this but I would think most of the best 20 players in the comp would be top 20 pick. (excluding father sons

Goodes 43, S Black 31, Hird 64, A Lynch 50, Tingay 50, T-Mac 53, Chapman 35, Fyfe 20 ... there are numerous other examples as well as being 2-4 busts out of the top 10 picks in any given draft we've ever had (busts - in terms of expectations)

I don't profess to have all the answers nor do I believe anyone has those answers. With all the hundreds of drafting anomalies, we can either blame all the recruiters over the years as being largely incompetent (and we have to blame all of them) ... or we blame the system. To me, it's a no-brainer.

My argument is not centered on our club either ManDee, I'm more looking at things from an overall perspective

Those wanting to scream like banshees at our drafting decisions can go on screaming till their hearts are content - it won't do them any good. They may as well be howling at the moon.

Lifting the drafting age might help considerably ... League Considering Draft Age Rise: McLachlan (whether anything comes of all this is another matter)

"[it was a] pretty consistent theme that it takes a couple of years to reprogram these talented kids," McLachlan said, adding that there seemed to be an industry push for the draft age to be examined as the gap between the feeder competitions and AFL clubs widens.

"I think it is a real issue. There is a big lead time now between bottoming out and your chance. If there are opportunities to accelerate that we will explore them."

[Macca 16,967]

Barry should have shown a bit of foresight shouldn't he?

I mean, we all knew that Scully was a C grader before we drafted him didn't we? We also all knew that he was going to take off to GWS after 2 years for 6 million bucks.

What were you thinking Barry?

As for Trengove --- how did dear old Barry not realise that Jack was going to break his navicular bone on numerous occasions? You've just gotta know these things if you want to be known as a top recruiter.

On a serious note, It's hard to believe that Morton ticked all the same sort of boxes as Judd & Hodge. But he did.

Highly touted junior exhibit A - Fails in the big time.

Highly touted junior exhibit B - Exceeds in the big time.

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

Of the three games against Freo, Sydney and Hawthorn, the Hawks are who we have the best chance of beating. Mainly because of Hodge and Lewis being out of course.

Mainly because we haven't been beaten yet.