Maybe his task was to keep away from the ball.

He's a decoy

We've looked too slow and certainly Roos is looking to bring in leg speed - Mitchie, Grimes, McKenzie all one paced. Had the feeling Jamar coming under pressure - rag dolled by Mumford in 2nd half and destroyed last week - playing for Casey this week so he's dropped and not rested. I like Spencer - still raw but has pace and a crack. i think Grimes is stiff though - be good to know what Roos thinks his deficiencies are - not enough bulk / skill to mix it in midfield and poor disposal to sit off hbf I would assume.

Wow controversial changes

Feel for Grimes. Confused about Jamar.

This team is definitely not very strong. I was hopeful of having a chance if Viney and Jetta were to return. But now I don't think we can win.

Might give waking up in the middle of the night to catch this match.

I also question what Watts has to do worse to get dropped.

I saw most of the Casey game v Collingwood several weeks ago and Stretch really appealed as someone who can actually provide pace and skill (and courage) vis-a-vis the other players we have on our list who unfortunately do turn it over and regularly kick it OOB or to the opposition.....at trade time if we can nab my personal favourite A Treloar and another UFA mid plus bring on ANB and Petracattack (I sense he will be really good) we are starting to get there....God it's hard work following the Dees but it's in my blood.

Grimes & Mckenzie were set up to fail.

The most moronic comment I have read on this site and that is saying something.

Reckon Viv is stiff. 17 touches at DE of 88% (best). The most disposals 21. Ran with Fyfe for two quarters and whilst beaten provided contest. Certainly was not the worst out there last week by a long shot. His game the week before was exceptional. Think giving a bloke 2 games, one against the best in the competition is pretty poor.

Remind me again how many tackles Viv had? Oh yeah that's right, none. His opponent often ran straight away from him without much of a chase,,,,

Surely Jamar is being rested as he has no decent back up ruck and is coming off a 6 day break.

Grimes was not great last week, Michie hasn't separated himself from that group of players that can play a similar role, and Jordie still looks the same poor decision maker he has been.

We're tanking.

Some will laugh but this is what tanking is made up of; the net removal 13 years and 178 games of experience...

I think the FD have a definitive idea of who will be at the club next year and this selection is geared toward next year as opposed to next Saturday.

That being said - I would hope that Toumpas and Stretch are more adventurous and willing to run than I have seen from a few of those that are seemingly not apart of the future...

I think Michie listed as no tackles contributed to his demotion. Jamar got monstered last week and struggles to get around the ground which I think was predictable as Mumford and Sandilands have had the wood on him in the past but he plays well against Maric and beat the young talls at Gold Coast. With Frost out and only Fitzy at Casey we are seriously short of key position players and a class ruck man. Garland, Dunn, Pederson and Howe at 191, 192, 193 and 190 are the same height as the Freo midfield. Watts at 196 will never be a key position player

Anyone that read the Casey report would have to be stunned at the inclusion of Toumpas. Plapp described him in a polite way as having a crap game. I thought roos was all about not gifting youngsters games based on potential?

Toump was sent to casey with particular areas to work on in his game, it's possible he was always seem as best 22 and the coaches are now satisfied he has improved those areas?

Spencer needs a few chances. He's 25 and could give us 5 or so years service as a decent back up ruck option if he's up for it. Or he could be delisted and we can start again with more talented rucks. The sooner we find out the better.

We are a developing side, that's not an excuse for performance, but we need to get young talented players in to develop now!

I think you are spot on here 'George', we know what we've got with Jamar and he's at the end.

This is the final chance for Spencer I would say, he's in good form at Casey so there are no excuses the ruck position is his for the taking...

In Round 1, this was "the strongest team we've fielded in years".

In Round 6, we're suddenly "not a very strong team".

Jamar is 30+ years old. We need to prepare for life after Jamar. Spencer and Gawn *need* to play and find a place in AFL football. We don't have another choice. Jamar has been dropped. He hasn't been rested. What does he do that's any better than what Spencer can do? Let's not pretend like Jamar has ever been a turning point in a match for us. We need to find a way to get experience into our ruckmen. Spencer has played 5 seasons.

Let's compare him to Jamar's first 5 seasons.

Hitouts:

Jamar - 11.3, 7.3, 7.5, 10.2, 9.7

Spencer - 12, 20.1, 26.6, 28.6 (didn't play in 2011)

Disposals:

Jamar - 6, 4.7, 3.4, 4.4, 6.2

Spencer - 7.5, 9.3, 10, 8

Spencer undoubtedly needs time in the AFL now. He is Jamar's replacement. Deal with it. Jamar's inclusion in the team isn't going to help us win games. What have we got to lose then? Spencer is the player we drafted to replace White, not Jamar. He's taken long to come on but his time is now. I am encouraged by him being in the side. Spencer isn't great, but Jamar is worse imo seeing as how average he has for a a player with 13 years experience.

That is rubbish

Watch last week and tell me what Grimes'opponent did. SFA is the answer. He is very stiff.

Really, if the coaching staff is serious about this year, Watts should have been dropped before Grimes or Jamar. I wonder what this does to team morale?

It seems the coaching staff don't like what Grimes did or didn't do.

Toumpas Is a dud. I have defended him in the past but he [censored] up everything he touched in the game he played as sub and simply isn't afl football standard at this stage. I hope he makes me eat my words but I see more in Brayshaw after a handful of games than I have seen in toumpas ever.vwhat does he bring to the team. Not hard. Not fast. Not clean. Not creative. What is it that the coaches see

Edited May 7, 201510 yr by Leoncelli_36

zzz... our forward line is too tall!

Its a myth mate.

It bucketed down against adelaide and we came out next week and pumped Richmond.

They have enough sport science and And technology to get this stuff right

Not so sure, isn't the AFL one sports scientist down now?

Edited May 7, 201510 yr by Rusty Nails

zzz... our forward line is too tall!

Until Kent returns I think that's something we'll just have to deal with. They will rotate one of JKH/Brayshaw/Newton through there at various stages while leaving Garlett down there to roam around at will. Watts is supposed to be the fourth tall/small who can play big and chase as a small but as well know that isn't working out at this stage.

Toumpas Is a dud. I have defended him in the past but he [censored] up everything he touched in the game he played as sub and simply isn't afl football standard at this stage. I hope he makes me eat my words but I see more in Brayshaw after a handful of games than I have seen in toumpas ever.vwhat does he bring to the team. Not hard. Not fast. Not clean. Not creative. What is it that the coaches see

I think the coaches want to see what he does on Saturday Night. This is it for Toumpas i believe. He has to show something

Not holding my breath. That said the ball is in his court.

This team looks disturbingly tall and maybe a little slow. If we're expecting rain then I would have thought Riley and Michie would have been preferred to do the grunt work of bulling the ball forward. All these talls could make us look spectacularly bad if it gets slippery and their defenders are just running away from them with the dropped ball.

I think the coaches want to see what he does on Saturday Night. This is it for Toumpas i believe. He has to show something

Not holding my breath. That said the ball is in his court.

It's his 3rd year and 20th game ... he'll get more than one more chance Wyl.

Nearly every ex footballer worth his salt will tell you that a player needs 60-70 games before they have firmly established themselves in the big time. Tom McDonald has always shown something but he's only now really starting to hit his straps - he's played 65 games.

If Toumpas can snag 15-18 possessions with a half decent DE rate he will have done well in terms of re-starting his career - others who are established in the side and the other leaders need to show the way. We have a number of players in the side who need to hit their best form.

Let's also remember he's the 21st or 22nd player picked in the side.

People here need to calm down a tad and show a degree of patience ... I understand that our patience has been tested previously but we can't lose sight of how things are normally done with draftees.

Having said all that, I'm hoping that Toumpas can be established in the side at least by year's end.

Edit: grammar

Edited May 9, 201510 yr by Macca

I think Michie listed as no tackles contributed to his demotion. Jamar got monstered last week and struggles to get around the ground which I think was predictable as Mumford and Sandilands have had the wood on him in the past but he plays well against Maric and beat the young talls at Gold Coast. With Frost out and only Fitzy at Casey we are seriously short of key position players and a class ruck man. Garland, Dunn, [Pedersen] and Howe at 191, 192, 193 and 190 are the same height as the Freo midfield. Watts at 196 will never be a key position player

McKenzie also had 0 tackle attempts. I'm calling them attempts as the "effective tackles" stat is more relevant, even though Jordie would have scored a big 0 here also. I think the coaches place alot of emphasis on pressure acts and 1%s. Pressure acts like effective tackles, effective tackles inside 50, pressure acts inisde 50 etc so this would make sense. And i'm not saying the coach & FD are lead by stats so much as they are obviously observing what's going on as the first driver with some key (coach) stats just used as a guide pre match and most match.

Having said that, McKenzie had 7 effective disposals with a TOG% of only 42% against the next equal or worst ranked players of Garland (7), Grimes (7) Jamar (6) , Salem# (6) , Watts (5) and Garlett (4) all had full games.

# The exception was Salem who only managed a TOG% of 48.

Oh, and pretty much everyone gets monstered by Sandilands Older D

Edited May 7, 201510 yr by Rusty Nails

Surely Jamar is being rested as he has no decent back up ruck and is coming off a 6 day break.

Grimes was not great last week, Michie hasn't separated himself from that group of players that can play a similar role, and Jordie still looks the same poor decision maker he has been.

Some will laugh but this is what tanking is made up of; the net removal 13 years and 178 games of experience...

I think the FD have a definitive idea of who will be at the club next year and this selection is geared toward next year as opposed to next Saturday.

That being said - I would hope that Toumpas and Stretch are more adventurous and willing to run than I have seen from a few of those that are seemingly not apart of the future...

Yes, although i would turn this around and say & his FD are waiting desperately for next year in order to avoid a selection dillema like this again!

None of the "ins" are deserving IMO apart from Stretch and i wouldn't include him for his first try out against anyone in the top 8 with this list. A stronger list like Norf, Port, the Pies etc.... but not us and certainly not against a rampaging Swans on the rebound. Reminds me of the inclusion of Watts against the Pies so many years ago

Happy to see Toumpas break back into the time.

Surprised to see Grimes dropped. he may not be a superstar, but he did a decent job on Ballantyne and was probably one of our best. It's sad how his career is panning out as he is such an enthusiastic Melbourne man and he was very good earlier in his career.
Surprised also to see Jamar dropped. While he hasn't been great he has still battled alone in the ruck this year and hasn't been our worst.

VERY happy to see Stretch debut. I've written on here multiple times that I think he's going to be a great player for us. He's got good pace, good endurance, good kicking skills, is a decent mark for his small size, and most importantly finds the ball. I think he's going to own a wing of the MCG for the next 10-12 years and be our Isaac Smith/Brad Hill type. Best of luck to the kid!!

Happy to see Toumpas break back into the time.

Surprised to see Grimes dropped. he may not be a superstar, but he did a decent job on Ballantyne and was probably one of our best. It's sad how his career is panning out as he is such an enthusiastic Melbourne man and he was very good earlier in his career.

Surprised also to see Jamar dropped. While he hasn't been great he has still battled alone in the ruck this year and hasn't been our worst.

VERY happy to see Stretch debut. I've written on here multiple times that I think he's going to be a great player for us. He's got good pace, good endurance, good kicking skills, is a decent mark for his small size, and most importantly finds the ball. I think he's going to own a wing of the MCG for the next 10-12 years and be our Isaac Smith/Brad Hill type. Best of luck to the kid!!

Grimes was on Mayne for 3 qtrs who had his best game in years. He also had 4 clangers from his 10 disposals. He is no longer best 22. That is why he was dropped. Its quite sad to see his demise as he has been a favourite of mine for years, but i feel his papers have been stamped already and if he is not traded he may end up delisted.

Looking forward to seeing Stretcher, hope he has the same impact that Brayshaw has had in his first few games!

Yes, although i would turn this around and say & his FD are waiting desperately for next year in order to avoid a selection dillema like this again!

None of the "ins" are deserving IMO apart from Stretch and i wouldn't include him for his first try out against anyone in the top 8 with this list. A stronger list like Norf, Port, the Pies etc.... but not us and certainly not against a rampaging Swans on the rebound. Reminds me of the inclusion of Watts against the Pies so many years ago

Saw the second half of final Casey praccy match and I was impressed by Stretch. Natural footy smarts.