On 30/04/2015 at 03:22, ManDee said:

SPR Reductio ad absurdum does not help your argument.

My uncle smoked until he was 90 and then tripped on a barbell and died from complications does not mean that exercise kills and smoking is healthy.

Because a player rarely misses a game (Stynes or N Jones) does not mean they must be soft, that argument is absurd.

My point is that there are a lot of players (most clubs) who lose many games to top players from impact injuries. Like (Ablett, Chapman, Lonergan, Harbrow Wallis) to name a few.

To say that the foot injuries to Clark were not from an awkward landing after crashing a pack is ignoring the facts. Viney's broken leg did not come from soft play.

To play well first you must play.

Hahahah

fact, you do not have to be playing AFL football to have an injury to your lisfranc or Navicular,

Jack Viney copped an unlucky kick to the leg, that could have happened to anyone, obviously they would need to be in general play, but every player at AFL level is exposed to the same risks, it's not an injury that could only effect players like Jack Viney.

  On 30/04/2015 at 01:50, ManDee said:

Hard at it players, Viney, Trengove, (Mitch Clark) miss many games through injury. How useful are they injured? How many does Watts miss?

I'd rather have a list full of hard players as the ones you mentioned & others, than watch, 'ring,ring@rosy' ,played before my very eyes.... if I wanted to watch that sort of game, I'd go & watch netball.... at least they have short skirts to add more interest.

.............. the emasculating of our society & of our cherished game is turning males into servants.

when will there be balance? why does it always have to be 'all, or nothing at all' ???

  On 30/04/2015 at 03:41, jabberwocky said:

Thread has got bizarre.

Watts has that effect on people.

  On 30/04/2015 at 03:22, ManDee said:

SPR Reductio ad absurdum does not help your argument.

My uncle smoked until he was 90 and then tripped on a barbell and died from complications does not mean that exercise kills and smoking is healthy.

Because a player rarely misses a game (Stynes or N Jones) does not mean they must be soft, that argument is absurd.

My point is that there are a lot of players (most clubs) who lose many games to top players from impact injuries. Like (Ablett, Chapman, Lonergan, Harbrow Wallis) to name a few.

To say that the foot injuries to Clark were not from an awkward landing after crashing a pack is ignoring the facts. Viney's broken leg did not come from soft play.

To play well first you must play.

did he drawback, mandee?

  On 30/04/2015 at 04:43, dee-luded said:

I'd rather have a list full of hard players as the ones you mentioned & others than see ring a ring a rosy played before my very eyes. if I wanted to watch that sort of game, I'd go & watch netball.... at least they have short skirts to add more interest.

.............. the emasculating of our society & of our cherished game is turning males into servants.

when will there be balance? why does it always have to be 'all, or nothing at all'?

Look I don't know why I am even arguing this as I would prefer the hard players myself.

As for netball its has a higher rate of injury than AFL but below NRL and NRU

Jack Watts (99 games) average AFL Fantasy points are 65.5.

Heritier Lumumba (203 games), Premiership player (5th in pies B&F last year) average AFL Fantasy points are 66.5.

Looks like Jacks not Robinson Crusoe in being sub-par...

Maybe "H" need to go down to Casey rebuild his confidence?

we need a quote from guru bob and we need a new topic to rattle on about.

  On 29/04/2015 at 23:35, Mad_Melbourne said:

This made me laugh, his average is skewed from one performance as he was able to contribute two goal assists compared to the per game figures of Watts and JKH

You are right on this one Mad Melbourne. A batsman in his first test makes 100 in both innings and has an average of 100. Gives him a better average than that bloke called Bradman!

Michael Clarke averaged 100 early days and was described by some journalists as the next Bradman. Not quite so I would reckon. He will have to make a hell of a lot more runs I reckon to even average 50.

Congratulations to Jack on 100.

  On 30/04/2015 at 05:46, hemingway said:

we need a quote from guru bob and we need a new topic to rattle on about.

Take your pick:

"A rabbit cannot ride a horse.

You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need.

And once you've got what you need, you can swap it for what you want."

"If you fall off the donkey 7 times, you must bounce back up 8 times. BUT - if you fall off the donkey 10 times, you're not cut out for riding donkeys..."

I asked the Supreme Master:

"Supreme Master, why does Collingwood have any fans at all?

He replied:

"Guru Bob. Why does an ugly child, have a mother who loves it?

Think about that.

"when it's all said and done,

when it comes to the end of the day

the night comes, and then a new day begins..."

After the famous Bible story of David and Goliath, it is reported that the newspapers said the following day:

"He didn't need many possessions, but gee, his efficiency percentage was good".

It was 7th century Chinese thinker Yang Tang who said:

"you know the expression 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'?

Well, what is the point of having your cake if you can't eat it?"

The Supreme Master reminds us:

"Certain players never know when they're beaten.

Some players don't know when they're winning either.

'Cos some players have no idea of what's going on at all"

"As Agamemnon said when the Achaians drafted Achilles for the Trojan war...

'He can run around and jump up and down, but can he get the ball?'.

He turned out to be a handy player who could be used in a variety of positions."

  On 30/04/2015 at 05:32, ManDee said:

Look I don't know why I am even arguing this as I would prefer the hard players myself.

As for netball its has a higher rate of injury than AFL but below NRL and NRU

so thats it,,, it's the physical nature of it I like after all?

  On 30/04/2015 at 05:50, Robbie57 said:

Congratulations to Jack on 100.

he's not there Yet, unless you've seen the team.

  On 30/04/2015 at 06:02, The Reverend said:

Take your pick:

"A rabbit cannot ride a horse.

You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need.

And once you've got what you need, you can swap it for what you want."

"If you fall off the donkey 7 times, you must bounce back up 8 times. BUT - if you fall off the donkey 10 times, you're not cut out for riding donkeys..."

I asked the Supreme Master:

"Supreme Master, why does Collingwood have any fans at all?

He replied:

"Guru Bob. Why does an ugly child, have a mother who loves it?

Think about that.

"when it's all said and done,

when it comes to the end of the day

the night comes, and then a new day begins..."

After the famous Bible story of David and Goliath, it is reported that the newspapers said the following day:

"He didn't need many possessions, but gee, his efficiency percentage was good".

It was 7th century Chinese thinker Yang Tang who said:

"you know the expression 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'?

Well, what is the point of having your cake if you can't eat it?"

The Supreme Master reminds us:

"Certain players never know when they're beaten.

Some players don't know when they're winning either.

'Cos some players have no idea of what's going on at all"

"As Agamemnon said when the Achaians drafted Achilles for the Trojan war...

'He can run around and jump up and down, but can he get the ball?'.

He turned out to be a handy player who could be used in a variety of positions."

you've gotta love the ol' Agamemnon, doesn't look a day over 500 cycles... wasn't it he-who said ol' roma she wasn't put up in just a day

  On 30/04/2015 at 06:28, dee-luded said:

so thats it,,, it's the physical nature of it I like after all?

he's not there Yet, unless you've seen the team.

you've gotta love the ol' Agamemnon, doesn't look a day over 500 cycles... wasn't it he-who said ol' roma she wasn't put up in just a day

DL, I love your formatting, son

All the best to Watts for his 100th game on the weekend. Hope he proves the haters wrong and has a blinder.

  On 29/04/2015 at 13:25, The Reverend said:

I'm not sure that's a stat they make public.Not sure where you've gotten that one from but you're entitled to your opinion. It would be nice if you could argue with some facts though.

There's nothing to argue about. And it is just an opinion. Only Jack can shut everyone up and I would love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong. Like all supporters I support him, he frustrates me at times but I really do wish him the best.

  On 30/04/2015 at 06:02, The Reverend said:

Take your pick:

"A rabbit cannot ride a horse.

You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need.

And once you've got what you need, you can swap it for what you want."

"If you fall off the donkey 7 times, you must bounce back up 8 times. BUT - if you fall off the donkey 10 times, you're not cut out for riding donkeys..."

I asked the Supreme Master:

"Supreme Master, why does Collingwood have any fans at all?

He replied:

"Guru Bob. Why does an ugly child, have a mother who loves it?

Think about that.

"when it's all said and done,

when it comes to the end of the day

the night comes, and then a new day begins..."

After the famous Bible story of David and Goliath, it is reported that the newspapers said the following day:

"He didn't need many possessions, but gee, his efficiency percentage was good".

It was 7th century Chinese thinker Yang Tang who said:

"you know the expression 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'?

Well, what is the point of having your cake if you can't eat it?"

The Supreme Master reminds us:

"Certain players never know when they're beaten.

Some players don't know when they're winning either.

'Cos some players have no idea of what's going on at all"

"As Agamemnon said when the Achaians drafted Achilles for the Trojan war...

'He can run around and jump up and down, but can he get the ball?'.

He turned out to be a handy player who could be used in a variety of positions."

Guru Bob tells us that after Moses parted the Red Sea, he was heard to remark: "It was a very good day for the side."

I always wonder how many Jack Watts bashers actually played a game of football in their lives. Jack is what he is, a natural athlete with great skills who works hard for his team. He is not Rodney Grinter. He is not Steve O'Dwyer, he is not Ron Barassi, he is not Gary Ablett. Melbourne has been an ordinary team since the even numbered years of the Daniher reign. Players like Jack watts are never going to resurrect ordinary teams. If Melbourne keeps improving then the role of Watts will be similar to the role of a Tunbridge, a Barry Vagg.The naysayers would love him in these circumstances.

Games moved on a little since Vagg

Yes, brother, the game moves on, but there are still the troglodytes who want every Melbourne player to play like Grinter.

  On 30/04/2015 at 10:30, dieter said:

Yes, brother, the game moves on, but there are still the troglodytes who want every Melbourne player to play like Grinter.

no not like Grinter...thats ridiculous. ...but channel a little of his moxy perhaps.

  On 30/04/2015 at 10:43, beelzebub said:

no not like Grinter...thats ridiculous. ...but channel a little of his moxy perhaps.

WTF is a moxy bb? Sick [censored]?

.....................................[ pu ssy] ?

  On 30/04/2015 at 11:47, Bitter but optimistic said:

WTF is a moxy bb? Sick [censored]?

.....................................[ pu ssy] ?

when did you turn inept...Google is your mate BBO...really...it is

  On 30/04/2015 at 10:02, Chook said:

Guru Bob tells us that after Moses parted the Red Sea, he was heard to remark: "It was a very good day for the side."

"A champion team will always beat a team of champions, unless of course the team of champions is very, very good."

The evaluation of Watts' game is not really the issue here - his supporters can generally see his faults and his detractors can see those same faults. Where the evaluation differs is the expectations attached to Jack - my opinion is that it's his 7th year and what you see is probably what you're going to get. He may improve dramatically but more likely his improvement will be incremental.

His draft pick number is very difficult to ignore because of all the hype attached to top end draft picks - but it's gone way past that now. He was drafted in 2008 and is that under 18 year he had back then even relevant any more?

His team play when he has the ball in his hand can't be questioned though - he's got vision, creativity and excellent disposal skills - his team play is not in a traditional sense either - his basketball background aids his team play in the sense that players are often "released" when he gets the ball to them.

Roos just needs to figure out a way for Jack to get more of the ball.

He did get 3 clearances late in the game last week so we might see him used that way again - throwing him on the ball for periods in the 2nd half of games could be a ploy that Roos uses again.

Ahh... The footy show; including Jack Watts, pranking Bernie Vince, is the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

Rusty Nails, on 29 Apr 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

Goal Assist (averages) he ranks 3rd so far behind Michie (1 game only!!??) and JKH. Still a decent result.

  On 29/04/2015 at 23:35, Mad_Melbourne said:

This made me laugh, his average is skewed from one performance as he was able to contribute two goal assists compared to the per game figures of Watts and JKH

Yes it's quite obvious for most that it's a skewed stat and that it isn't an average (ie., a fair comparison) given i highlighted it with question marks (IN BRACKETS!) ...

~ shakes head/big sigh