If Dawes and Vince weren't available, would you drop Toumpas?

If so, who comes in?

Michie.

I really don't see what Michie has to offer. He can accumulate possessions without hurting the opposition, and that's about it.

As bad as Toumpas looked on Saturday, like Macca, I'd give him another game if Vince and Dawes weren't available. It just goes to show that we still seriously lack AFL standard depth. The likes of Michie, McKenzie, Bail, Riley and M.Jones will win a lot of games for Casey, but not necessarily Melbourne.

Injury only list players Macca.

We have had 3 -4 years of watching them.

They are VFL level Talents.

At least 1 more off-season old dee ... more likely 2 off-seasons (to push for top 4)

At least 1 more off-season old dee ... more likely 2 off-seasons (to push for top 4)

I think two we took nearly a decade to reach the low point of 2013.

We are only two trade periods past that VFL level list.

We still have a lot to change before finals are a reality.

I don't like the idea of someone getting the boot after only getting 20 minutes of game time. But given Vince and Dawes are likely to return, and the fact it was such a poor 20 minutes, I could understand it. But part of me wants him named, and if he is, he should start.

The dropping Toumpas/dropping the sub does mesh with a theory I've had for a while in whether we'd be better off having a near permanent sub and therefore playing our talented younger players for full games either at AFL or VFL level. I think first and second year players getting their fitness and strength up are suited to the sub role semi regularly. Salem and JKH last year, Brayshaw this year and probably a few others.

But 3rd year or beyond it's robbing them of 80 minutes they could be playing at AFL or VFL level. Done any more frequently than occasionally it's a waste. Right now there's no obvious 'super sub' on our list. But maybe we'd be better off dedicated one of the 44 for spots on an AFL list, possibly a rookie spot, for a super sub and then we get maximum value from the other 43 spots. I think Gia did a nice job for the Dogs. Matt Jones or Bail could be options, particularly later in the season.

Therein lies the problem. Jamar cannot ruck all day and Mummy will be just too strong for Frost!

Mumford can't ruck all day either. He'll get a chop out by Tomlinson at times as well who Frost will match up well on. When Frost is up against Mumford he has to try to impact the game around the ground using his superior speed and we'd be wise to use 3rd man ups and other tactics where possible to nullify the ruck duels. However they shouldn't be against each other for too much of the game.

Spencer got towelled by Mummy in the first game last year.

In the second edition the hitouts read:

Jamar - 20

Mumford - 21

Gawn - 22

Boyd - 4

I'm not sure what the split in time in the ruck was between our 2 big guys and we were brained in the game so Mummy might have been taking it easy or not at his best. Either way I expect Jamar to serve it up to Mumford. I'm more worried about GWS' mids regardless of how much good service they get.

I don't like the idea of someone getting the boot after only getting 20 minutes of game time. But given Vince and Dawes are likely to return, and the fact it was such a poor 20 minutes, I could understand it. But part of me wants him named, and if he is, he should start.

I dont like the idea ( or practice there of )

of LOSING.

it aint a benevolent social club.

so in other words you agree with me in that Dawes is coming in

just thought you would sneak a little insult jab at same time as agreeing with me

grow up

That's very rich coming from the guy who told another poster "I hate you". Sounds to me like you are the one who should grow up Curry.

No, I don't agree that it is a certainty Dawes will come in. You put words into just about everyone else's mouth to suit your point of view when it pleases.

That's very rich coming from the guy who told another poster "I hate you". Sounds to me like you are the one who should grow up Curry.

No, I don't agree that it is a certainty Dawes will come in. You put words into just about everyone else's mouth to suit your point of view when it pleases.

In his defence; that was me he said he hated...

The dropping Toumpas/dropping the sub does mesh with a theory I've had for a while in whether we'd be better off having a near permanent sub and therefore playing our talented younger players for full games either at AFL or VFL level. I think first and second year players getting their fitness and strength up are suited to the sub role semi regularly. Salem and JKH last year, Brayshaw this year and probably a few others.

But 3rd year or beyond it's robbing them of 80 minutes they could be playing at AFL or VFL level. Done any more frequently than occasionally it's a waste. Right now there's no obvious 'super sub' on our list. But maybe we'd be better off dedicated one of the 44 for spots on an AFL list, possibly a rookie spot, for a super sub and then we get maximum value from the other 43 spots. I think Gia did a nice job for the Dogs. Matt Jones or Bail could be options, particularly later in the season.

It's probably crossed Roos' mind to go down that path but I'm not sure we have the impact player (available) to play the role of the super sub. The idea has merit though.

At issue is that all our good players need to start off and because we lack quality with our depth, it ends up being one of the young blokes. It's hard to get to 30 first choice 'starting 22' players and right now, we're a fair way off that number.

It would be ideal if we were strong enough to use Vince, vandenBerg or someone like Newton as a super sub. That would also mean that we'd have quite a strong side. We may only be a year away, all the same.

Frost sub. He would literally bowl people over. Would make an impact.

Corr Davis Bugg

Haynes Patful Shaw

Thats the backline they started with last week.

I really don't see what Michie has to offer. He can accumulate possessions without hurting the opposition, and that's about it.

As bad as Toumpas looked on Saturday, like Macca, I'd give him another game if Vince and Dawes weren't available. It just goes to show that we still seriously lack AFL standard depth. The likes of Michie, McKenzie, Bail, Riley and M.Jones will win a lot of games for Casey, but not necessarily Melbourne.

It's not quite as bad when you consider that as of round 1 2016 we should see Trengove and Petracca and another kid maybe from about pick6 working their way into the side.. and if Roos smashes another one out of the park , like he has the last 2 trade periods, we should see more of the likes of Vince, Cross, Tyson, Vandenburg, Lumumba, Garlett and Newton into the side

If Frost is on the bench, he would give Jamar a chop-out for 10 mins a quarter.

Then give each of the tall forwards (Dawes, Hogan & Watts) a rest for 10 mins each across the game.

That's getting about 70% game time without having 4 tall forwards on the ground at the same time. So there's a way to play both Dawes & Frost without getting top-heavy up forward.

He's also our best back-up if one of our key talls (say, T-Mac or Jamar) get pantsed or (God forbid) injured.

Malceski played badly so Kent gets credit for it, interesting

Are you trying to tell me he didn't have the job to try and stop Malceski? They just let Malceski run loose did they?

Toumpas had limited game time but he will clearly make way for Vince.

Dawes will come in, but who goes out wont be a like for like and will be very unlucky. THIS is a good thing for us, I'm expecting it to be Brayshaw, Kent or JKH whos is unlucky this week... my gut feel is Brayshaw as JKH and Kent have more stamina to get through a game at this early stage of all their respective careers.

I'm expecting Brayshaw will be dissapointed and I wouldn't want to be going up against him as Casey's opponent.

Roos loves defensive pressure. Brayshaw 9 tackles, JKH 1. I also saw him chase Saad and the effort was pretty poor. JKH is talented but he needs to work on his defensive skills it's why I think he has to make way for Dawes.

THE TEAM

B: JETTA, DUNN, GARLAND

HB: HOWE, T.MCDONALD, SALEM

C: LUMUMBA, N.JONES, CROSS

HF: KENT, HOGAN, VANDENBERG

F: WATTS, DAWES, GARLETT

FOLL: JAMAR, TYSON, VINEY

IC: VINCE, NEWTON, FROST

SUB: BRAYSHAW

EMERG: KENNEDY-HARRIS

In Vince

Out Toumpas

Sub Cross

Close tag Viney on rat face - with extreme prejudice.

Let Dawes hold some grabs / kick a bag in the 2s.

I liked the speed on the ground last week.

Could not see any reason to drop JKH.

Roosy rang me for a bit of advice and initially I told him to go the extra tall but after we all had dinner at Satys it was decided that we needed run and carry.

OUT: Toumpas, JFK

IN: Vince, Dawes

Garland was great in the 1st half, but once the Suns went small in the 2nd half, Garland was manned up on either Ablett or Jack Martin and got touched up.

Bullshite

Frost sub. He would literally bowl people over. Would make an impact.

Too important to structure right now. Who'd back up Jamar in the ruck?

Vince for Toumpas for mine, otherwise no change if Vince isn't fit. I personally wouldn't mind seeing Dawes have another week off and really earn his spot because for me, he was pretty underwhelming a lot of last year and didn't exactly do much more than Frost or Hogan did on the weekend.

Corr Davis Bugg

Haynes Patful Shaw

Thats the backline they started with last week.

Would be hard to drop Kent, keep him in to do another shut down on Shaw.

I'd be very tempted to have three talls and watts, I think gws lack some height down back and if we can get it in there we could easily get a hold of them, Davis probably takes hogan but if he can drag him up the ground Dawes, frost and watts should have a field day

In Vince

Out Toumpas

Sub Cross

Close tag Viney on rat face - with extreme prejudice.

Let Dawes hold some grabs / kick a bag in the 2s.

I liked the speed on the ground last week.

Could not see any reason to drop JKH.

Roosy rang me for a bit of advice and initially I told him to go the extra tall but after we all had dinner at Satys it was decided that we needed run and carry.

I assume 'rat face' is the HWSNBN $6m man? If so, Viney would have no greater pleasure than tackling him (legally) into the turf for crapping on his beloved Demons. However, 'rat face' isn't good enough to have Viney on him, mores the pity as that match-up would be one to relish.

I'd be very tempted to have three talls and watts, I think gws lack some height down back and if we can get it in there we could easily get a hold of them, Davis probably takes hogan but if he can drag him up the ground Dawes, frost and watts should have a field day

I think we need to be very careful not too go tall against GWS as that was our problem in their home game last year.

I think we need to be very careful not too go tall against GWS as that was our problem in their home game last year.

Yep, but that was with big Max in the mix. Frost is a different player and very mobile, Dawes would be the only monster.