• We have an easy draw
• We have the best culture building coach in the league who has had a season to repair us
• We showed massive improvement at times last year and had a couple of losses that should have really gone our way
• We have plenty of early draft picks as a result of the 8 years of meritocracy who are now in the right environment and are ready to go
• Harry O and Garlett are both great players in their own right but also play roles we desperately lacked last season
• Hogan won the b&f at Casey as a 17 year old power forward. That is unprecedented. I stand to be corrected but I don’t think Dermie even won the b&f as at 18 year old when he played the season in the reserves and then debuted for the Hawkes in the finals and dominated.
• Petracca and Brayshaw are built and skilful enough to play roles and have an immediate impact.
• We now have almost no “project” players taking up room on the list. There is real competition for spots.
• We have been terrible at winning stoppages and clearances over the last 5 years. We have addressed that and now have a stockpile of extracting / ball winning midfielders who will get it out to Salem, Watts and Toumpas
• Garland was in our top 3 players 2 years ago but never got going this year after having an injury interrupted pre-season and season proper. He will be like a new recruit
• Tyson and Viney will both improve
• Essendon will likely be penalised so there is one less team to contend with
• It is not uncommon for a team to go from near the bottom and charge right up the ladder. We did it under Daniher.

_{Oops wrong board. Can this be moved please?}

Off season talk. Love the optimism but lets wait till the end of round one before we get our hopes up.

We are coming from a long way back. Let's not forget that.

My optimism for 2015 extends to thinking we will get out of the bottom four, with a comfortable win or two coming amongst the likes of St Kilda, Carlton and Footscray. I also expect the Etihad curse to finally be broken.

I've been burned too many times in the last years to do anything but hope that we win what we should, one or two we shouldn't, and don't get beaten up by the big boys.

But if I haven't kicked my TV in by the 20 minute mark of the 2nd Q, round one, then I might just jump on board that train Wrecker.

Come on pessimists (I know, long term Demon fans have become attuned to this) - it is preseason. Let's just enjoy the possibilities. After all, all teams are 0-0 at this stage for 2015.

I love it haha - there is no difference between delusion and hope at this time of year, bring on the Gold Coast in round 1!

• We have an easy draw
• We have the best culture building coach in the league who has had a season to repair us
• We showed massive improvement at times last year and had a couple of losses that should have really gone our way
• We have plenty of early draft picks as a result of the 8 years of meritocracy who are now in the right environment and are ready to go
• Harry O and Garlett are both great players in their own right but also play roles we desperately lacked last season
• Hogan won the b&f at Casey as a 17 year old power forward. That is unprecedented. I stand to be corrected but I don’t think Dermie even won the b&f as at 18 year old when he played the season in the reserves and then debuted for the Hawkes in the finals and dominated.
• Petracca and Brayshaw are built and skilful enough to play roles and have an immediate impact.
• We now have almost no “project” players taking up room on the list. There is real competition for spots.
• We have been terrible at winning stoppages and clearances over the last 5 years. We have addressed that and now have a stockpile of extracting / ball winning midfielders who will get it out to Salem, Watts and Toumpas
• Garland was in our top 3 players 2 years ago but never got going this year after having an injury interrupted pre-season and season proper. He will be like a new recruit
• Tyson and Viney will both improve
• Essendon will likely be penalised so there is one less team to contend with
• It is not uncommon for a team to go from near the bottom and charge right up the ladder. We did it under Daniher.

Excuse me for stating the obvious...but these great points are stating the obvious. I think at this time of year we are all afflicted by the opposite of MFCSS. Something like 'Off Season,Trade and Draft Euphoria"! OFTDE!! (Except 'Old Dee' he has suffered from MFCSS for so long he doesn't allow himself to hope too much. )

I would be terrified if we didn't improve significantly because so will the other 17 teams. How many extra wins this translates to only time will tell. So I fluctuate between MFCSS and OFTDE regularly atmo.

Am expecting for 2016 or 2017 to be our 'break-out' year. Just not enough talent/experience in the 23 to 25 age/100+ game group for it to be 2015.

Excuse me for stating the obvious...but these great points are stating the obvious. I think at this time of year we are all afflicted by the opposite of MFCSS. Something like 'Off Season,Trade and Draft Euphoria"! OFTDE!! (Except 'Old Dee' he has suffered from MFCSS for so long he doesn't allow himself to hope too much. )

I would be terrified if we didn't improve significantly because so will the other 17 teams. How many extra wins this translates to only time will tell. So I fluctuate between MFCSS and OFTDE regularly atmo.

Am expecting for 2016 or 2017 to be our 'break-out' year. Just not enough talent/experience in the 23 to 25 age/100+ game group for it to be 2015.

Well LH you have no idea how close both our feelings are in late November 2014.

Close very close

I hate Hawthorn supporters because they didn't know the draft was on.

Melbourne supporters look forward to it every year.

I look forward to next year finishing 9th and not knowing when the draft is on.

I hate Hawthorn supporters because they didn't know the draft was on.

Melbourne supporters look forward to it every year.

I look forward to next year finishing 9th and not knowing when the draft is on.

I envy Hawthorn no hate!

Excuse me for stating the obvious...but these great points are stating the obvious. I think at this time of year we are all afflicted by the opposite of MFCSS. Something like 'Off Season,Trade and Draft Euphoria"! OFTDE!! (Except 'Old Dee' he has suffered from MFCSS for so long he doesn't allow himself to hope too much. )

I would be terrified if we didn't improve significantly because so will the other 17 teams. How many extra wins this translates to only time will tell. So I fluctuate between MFCSS and OFTDE regularly atmo.

Am expecting for 2016 or 2017 to be our 'break-out' year. Just not enough talent/experience in the 23 to 25 age/100+ game group for it to be 2015.

I've been around demonland awhile and still have no idea what MFCSS is ? Anyone care to elaborate ? Something about our eternal crapness I presume ?

• Essendon will likely be penalised so there is one less team to contend with

​Love the optimism, all of which sounds reasonable (but who knows), but I don't see how having one less team to contend with helps us. Same for everyone, except if Hawthorn loses to a degraded EFC team, people will just dismiss it as an aberration, but if we did, OldDee will never recover.

now is the time of optimism, pessimism is waiting in the wings for the team to have 2 or 3 floggings by 100 points which i personally think aint going to happen next year. Some teams will improve next year but some will also go backwards, I see us going onwards and upwards. We have the makings of a midfield that will win the ball far more than they did in the last couple of years. That will give our outside runners who have been starved of opportunities a chance. We have a lot more hard bodies that are more than happy to tackle the opposition and put pressure on them. We (touch wood) have a forward in Hogan though we also have some raw options in Oscar, Frost and Gawn that could potentially all go to full forward should it be required. we have a decent crumbing forward and an even better back line that this year. we have eager players who now must compete for a place in the side or else they will play VFL for the season and then potentially be traded out at the end of the year. So I would be expecting a better effort out of a lot of our players this year if they can get in another solid pre-season. And we have a pretty experienced and solid coaching staff to back up Roos. All in all we have a pretty balanced side. Quite frankly if you compare where we are with personal and attitude now with the last dark days of the Neeld reign we have made huge improvements in so many fronts. Go dees for 2015 and beyond.

• Tyson and Viney will both improve

You dont know that

I've been around demonland awhile and still have no idea what MFCSS is ? Anyone care to elaborate ? Something about our eternal crapness I presume ?

Melbourne Football Club Supporter Syndrome. MFCSS is epitomised by: whenever something good happens look out, crap is about to follow!

Could give other 'reverse' cliches: 'we find a cloud in every silver lining'; 'the light at the end of the tunnel is an on-coming train' ...etc etc!

And yes, you presume correctly re MFC eternal crapness. MFCSS kicks in by keeping the faith no matter how dark the dawn. A bit like an unhealthy addiction!

Edited November 28, 201410 yr by Lucifer's Hero

- we have a midfield.

• 1. We have an easy draw
• 2. We have the best culture building coach in the league who has had a season to repair us
• 3. We showed massive improvement at times last year and had a couple of losses that should have really gone our way
• 4. We have plenty of early draft picks as a result of the 8 years of meritocracy who are now in the right environment and are ready to go
• 5. Harry O and Garlett are both great players in their own right but also play roles we desperately lacked last season
• 6. Hogan won the b&f at Casey as a 17 year old power forward. That is unprecedented. I stand to be corrected but I don’t think Dermie even won the b&f as at 18 year old when he played the season in the reserves and then debuted for the Hawkes in the finals and dominated.
• 7. Petracca and Brayshaw are built and skilful enough to play roles and have an immediate impact.
• 8. We now have almost no “project” players taking up room on the list. There is real competition for spots.
• 9. We have been terrible at winning stoppages and clearances over the last 5 years. We have addressed that and now have a stockpile of extracting / ball winning midfielders who will get it out to Salem, Watts and Toumpas
• 10. Garland was in our top 3 players 2 years ago but never got going this year after having an injury interrupted pre-season and season proper. He will be like a new recruit
• 11. Tyson and Viney will both improve
• 12. Essendon will likely be penalised so there is one less team to contend with
• 13. It is not uncommon for a team to go from near the bottom and charge right up the ladder. We did it under Daniher.

1. Is true but has been true for a long time

2. Agree, should result in some improved performance

3. A little. We hit form and won 4 of 10 games in the middle of the year, if we kept it up we could've won 6-8 for the season

4. Not so convinced on that. Toumpas is the only one who's been so far below par that a jump could be expected.

5. Garlett is a question mark, H Lumumba should help fill a need

6. Hogan should give us something, but Frawley was better than people realised fwd last year

7. The draftees should give us immediate excitement, but maybe not impact

8. Yes, competition should help

9. Not really. Petracca, Newton and Brayshaw might not give us much at stoppages in their first seasons at MFC

10. Yes, Garland back to his best should help

11. No, Tyson was amazing last year, it's unfair to expect improvement, Viney, maybe a little, but he also played some good games

12. Who knows with Essendon

13. History doesn't actually mean anything will happen

In terms of players:

Getting 22 fit and able competitors out on the field should help. Watts, Bail, Grimes and Matt Jones were unquestioned for most of last year. This year they should have pressure. JKH and Salem got games for the sake of it last year, this year should see them fitter and ready to perform. You can add plenty to that list - Kent, Riley, Michie etc. Lumumba, Garlett, Newton, Petracca and Brayshaw. 5 immediate competitors for those spots in the team.

Hogan and Frost for Clark and Frawley certainly makes us younger and less credentialed in the talls stakes. Especially without much back up to either of those guys. It will still be Fitzy and Pedo forward and going small or Oscar McDonald down back. So far Jamar is at least fit and Spencer and Gawn aren't too far from it. Last year Jamar was a long way off and Gawn was working his way back.

In terms of other factors:

- Roos has the game plan implemented already this year

- Less new faces expected to be in the best 22 in important roles (as Cross, Tyson and Vince were)

- A year of a steady culture

- A boosted development team

- Another year of Dave Misson, it's hard to judge how well we are prepared but at least we have continuity

- Better start to preseason health wise this year

I said this to my brother when he said he wanted the footy back. Off-season is a Melbourne fans favourite time of the year, we have all the hope and optimism in the world!

That said, I was looking at our round 1 team (assuming little to no injuries) and it was getting hard to find spots for players that you'd consider hole fillers who were actually regulars last year. Harsh as it is for Peders (who was great for much of the year) I can't see him getting in the side without significant injuries. Matt Jones, who was a very good role player will be up against kids with so much talent and hopefully lots to prove. Bail is in the same camp.

We should definitely improve next year.

I'm so burnt from the past couple of years, especially the last 3 first rounds that I don't hold the expectation I have over that period.

While we are improving so are all the teams above us. The difference is they haven't totally F'ed up their rebuilds like we have. I think Saints are doing a great rebuild without the shocking drafting clangers we made.

There is no doubt in my mind we will be better next year but I'm not that optimistic about how much better. I'm really not sure who we are going to beat. There isn't a team that is a standout where I can say no worried beating them. That includes the Saints, if we couldnt' beat them last year, who knows next year.

I think, like many, that next year will be another tough year of picking ourselves off a very low base. Hopefully they have a much better capacity to execute the game plan in it's second year which will hopefully result in a reduction in those shocking turnovers that do everyone's heads in. Hopefully the forward structure will be much stronger and with forward targets will allow the team to become more attacking. Hopefully the second and third year players and some older ones such as Watts finally click. That's a lot of hopefuls.

Will this all translate into wins. I dont know and I don't care. If most of all of that happens I will have hope that 2016 will show us a transformed team. Hopefully with Jeremy Cameron at Full Forward/Centre Half Forward. (Hey, I can dream.)

I'm so burnt from the past couple of years, especially the last 3 first rounds that I don't hold the expectation I have over that period.

While we are improving so are all the teams above us. The difference is they haven't totally F'ed up their rebuilds like we have. I think Saints are doing a great rebuild without the shocking drafting clangers we made.

There is no doubt in my mind we will be better next year but I'm not that optimistic about how much better. I'm really not sure who we are going to beat. There isn't a team that is a standout where I can say no worried beating them. That includes the Saints, if we couldnt' beat them last year, who knows next year.

I think, like many, that next year will be another tough year of picking ourselves off a very low base. Hopefully they have a much better capacity to execute the game plan in it's second year which will hopefully result in a reduction in those shocking turnovers that do everyone's heads in. Hopefully the forward structure will be much stronger and with forward targets will allow the team to become more attacking. Hopefully the second and third year players and some older ones such as Watts finally click. That's a lot of hopefuls.

Will this all translate into wins. I dont know and I don't care. If most of all of that happens I will have hope that 2016 will show us a transformed team. Hopefully with Jeremy Cameron at Full Forward/Centre Half Forward. (Hey, I can dream.)

I've been burn't for about 50 seasons Time. The only thing that will fire me up is getting 4points on a regular basis.

I've been burn't for about 50 seasons Time. The only thing that will fire me up is getting 4points on a regular basis.

You are little over the top there bbo

we have 6 or 7 good ones over the half century

- we have a midfield.

Do we?

- we have a midfield.

Like so many years before we have the makings of a midfield, nothing more. Just like this time last year we had the makings of a powerful forward line, I don't think I have to go into detail about what happened there.

I've been around demonland awhile and still have no idea what MFCSS is ? Anyone care to elaborate ? Something about our eternal crapness I presume ?

every cloud has a tin lining