Jack Trengove re-injures his navicular (2014) - trade deal off

[beelzebub 23,383]

Melb's batting 1/61...taking lunch

[Macca 17,034]

Geez theres a lot of people about to have a cardiac arrest here, bloody settle down!

Just because we failed at the draft in the past doesn't mean we will now!! BP has gone, a whole new admin & coaching dept. Also a new recruiter.

Its now a great to look at top end talent from the draft & back ourselves in with all these new fresh people. We need more talented kids, we haven't got much.

As for Trengove, I'd get the best in a trade for him in a heartbeat, as I would Watts. Both mentally scarred & the club needs to move on from this era of weakness in the mind. Its not entirely their fault, but we will get better quicker if we don't have relapses.

Fresh people may not make an ounce of difference with regards to picking top end talent from the draft. Our top end draft picks from the past were almost universally accepted as the best picks (I'm specifically talking about our top 5 picks)

Those who want to continually blame those who were picking those universally accepted picks are continually ignoring what the actual truth is - that the draft is flawed and is largely a lottery.

Many here have convinced themselves that Petracca & Brayshaw will be stars but those same people "probably" say the same thing every year about the "popular" picks. I guess if it's said enough times, they're bound to get a few right.

I expect our club and other clubs to continue to pick "busts" because of the nature of the draft. It stands to reason. There are no guarantees when picking top end speculative prospects - no matter who is picking them.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,970]

Melb's batting 1/61...taking lunch

Where's Dank when you need him?

[Weekends at Bernie's 64]

Isn't it Friday 2.00 PM?

It was scheduled to finish Friday 2pm, however etihad stadium was booked out on Friday for some Jehovah witness conference.

So they brought it forward a day

Edited October 12, 2014 by The Toump 5

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

Fresh people may not make an ounce of difference with regards to picking top end talent from the draft. Our top end draft picks from the past were almost universally accepted as the best picks (I'm specifically talking about our top 5 picks)

Those who want to continually blame those who were picking those universally accepted picks are continually ignoring what the actual truth is - that the draft is flawed and is largely a lottery.

Many here have convinced themselves that Petracca & Brayshaw will be stars but those same people "probably" say the same thing every year about the "popular" picks. I guess if it's said enough times, they're bound to get a few right.

I expect our club and other clubs to continue to pick "busts" because of the nature of the draft. It stands to reason. There are no guarantees when picking top end speculative prospects - no matter who is picking them.

So you're saying it was development then, not the picks. If that's the case & even if it isn't I will back these new coaches, admin etc to develop them properly, unlike the past.

Yes all clubs have busts, its a lottery yada yada. However the good teams with good people in charge don't have as many blunders as poorly managed teams. No matter what the past says, you need to back yourself in to develop a superstar or two eventually.

I'm tipping it'll be Brayshaw/Petracca, Brayshaw/McCartin & Lever/??

I respect your opinion, but I'll stick with mine, thanks.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Tyson_Viney_Toumpas

[thevil1 421]

Beams has continually stated he wants to be traded so he can live near his dad in Qld

If we sign him up to what will be a huge long term contract, we will have to worry about him asking for a trade to Brisbane at the end of every season

I want stability at the MFC not highly paid players who are a flight risk each trade period, like Beams would be

Hope we steer well clear

Where has it continually been stated by Beams??? Pls do tell?

Maybe one of the blokes who liked your post can provide some evidence also?

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

Melb's batting 1/61...taking lunch

Just tell me this. Is Trenners out there batting with a runner or not?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,970]

Where has it continually been stated by Beams??? Pls do tell?

Maybe one of the blokes who liked your post can provide some evidence also?

Exactly, he hasn't been quoted once saying he wants to go to Qld let alone 'continually.'

[Macca 17,034]

So you're saying it was development then, not the picks. If that's the case & even if it isn't I will back these new coaches, admin etc to develop them properly, unlike the past.

Yes all clubs have busts, its a lottery yada yada. However the good teams with good people in charge don't have as many blunders as poorly managed teams. No matter what the past says, you need to back yourself in to develop a superstar or two eventually.

I'm tipping it'll be Brayshaw/Petracca, Brayshaw/McCartin & Lever/??

I respect your opinion, but I'll stick with mine, thanks.

I'm not saying it's development either although it's true that development often or sometimes plays a big part. Most of the top end draft pick "busts" were always going to be busts in my opinion ... and, I'm not just talking about our picks.

Watts, Sylvia, McLean, Morton, Scully were pretty much always going to turn out the players that they are now. It's too early to tell with Toumpas and Trengove has probably had a busted foot for close on 3 years.

We draft these kids after evaluating them when they're mostly 17 years old - it's too young an age and by the way, I've had the same view ever since the draft came into being.

Superstars are mostly born that way and are self driven. Often, they don't even need to be coached (or developed) They are just naturals.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

I'm not saying it's development either although it's true that development often or sometimes plays a big part. Most of the top end draft pick "busts" were always going to be busts in my opinion ... and, I'm not just talking about our picks.

Watts, Sylvia, McLean, Morton, Scully were pretty much always going to turn out the players that they are now. It's too early to tell with Toumpas and Trengove has probably had a busted foot for close on 3 years.

We draft these kids after evaluating them when they're mostly 17 years old - it's too young an age and by the way, I've had the same view ever since the draft came into being.

Superstars are mostly born that way and are self driven. Often, they don't even need to be coached (or developed) They are just naturals.

I know what you're saying mate, I just don't think we should close the door on the draft that's all

[thevil1 421]

Exactly, he hasn't been quoted once saying he wants to go to Qld let alone 'continually.'

All I can find in all the articles re Beams requesting a trade is that Connors, his manager, has said he wants to be closer to his dad as has Eddie Mc.... Yeah, like a player manager won't say whatever it takes to get his client where he wants to be & Eddie doesn't want a reason for the members that doesn't place blame on Buckley! Ha!!

He wants OUT of Collingwood (who doesn't these days), a big fat pay cheque & if possible to play with his brother. So to me, if Brissy can't get the deal done, then 2 out of 3 for Beams ain't bad.

Latest article from Age has us involved in a deal that still lands him in Brissy however.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-name-emerges-in-dayne-beams-deal-as-trades-heat-up-20141011-114s3k.html

[Macca 17,034]

I know what you're saying mate, I just don't think we should close the door on the draft that's all

And I'm not closing the door on the draft either, 'TVT' ... we still have to take chances in the draft, we have no choice. I'm just cynical about the draft and I believe my cynicism is well founded.

We could swap picks 2 & 3 for proven talent and still lose out - we could also win out ... or we could break even

Or, we could go to the draft with both picks (2&3) and win out - we could also lose out

Etc etc.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I would prefer two mids and frost is we r giving pics 3 and 12.

Yep.

I'd rather use P-3 & 23 on Shiel & Greene; & keep P-2 & a possible P-12 for the draft...................... than spend P-3 & 12 on Beams.

we could turn them into Shiel, Brayshaw, Greene, & a possible Lever/Laverde/Ahern, mix.

Edited October 12, 2014 by dee-luded

[Adam The God 30,421]

Greene is a [censored] but is also a star. He averaged 103 SC points this year (38th in the AFL and only Nathan Jones had more for MFC). Shiel averaged 94 (76th in the AFL).

He's a bloke who was suspended for his club and charged by the police, only for those charges to be later dropped. He's a risk and therefore we can use this as leverage.

[Mousey 47]

In my opinion Shiel is no chance to move.

IF there is one midfielder from GWS that could move it is Coniglio. Sure he is not from Vic but i dont think that matters to him. Best mates with Tyson, ex Pick 2. I heard rumours he was a real chance to get to the Dees earlier on in the season (rumours dont mean much i know).

Dom Tyson like trade: Pick 2 or 3 (Petracca) for Coniglio and Pick 6 (draft Lever) would seem fair to me (4 goes to the Bulldogs for Griffen and 6)

If the Trengove rumours are true, love him, but willing to back the club in the direction they want to go! If we end up with 12 or 10, take it to the draft and get one of Laverde, Pickett, De Goey, Lamb

Ideal incoming:

Coniglio, Brayshaw, Lever, Pickett, Stretch, Garlett, Lumumba, Frost

[Adam The God 30,421]

Fresh people may not make an ounce of difference with regards to picking top end talent from the draft. Our top end draft picks from the past were almost universally accepted as the best picks (I'm specifically talking about our top 5 picks)

Those who want to continually blame those who were picking those universally accepted picks are continually ignoring what the actual truth is - that the draft is flawed and is largely a lottery.

Many here have convinced themselves that Petracca & Brayshaw will be stars but those same people "probably" say the same thing every year about the "popular" picks. I guess if it's said enough times, they're bound to get a few right.

I expect our club and other clubs to continue to pick "busts" because of the nature of the draft. It stands to reason. There are no guarantees when picking top end speculative prospects - no matter who is picking them.

I agree, Macca. The thing is I think Roos agrees with you too. He'll try and take lower picks to the draft and trade off all our high picks. Can almost guarantee it.

[Adam The God 30,421]

In my opinion Shiel is no chance to move.

IF there is one midfielder from GWS that could move it is Coniglio. Sure he is not from Vic but i dont think that matters to him. Best mates with Tyson, ex Pick 2. I heard rumours he was a real chance to get to the Dees earlier on in the season (rumours dont mean much i know).

Dom Tyson like trade: Pick 2 or 3 (Petracca) for Coniglio and Pick 6 (draft Lever) would seem fair to me (4 goes to the Bulldogs for Griffen and 6)

If the Trengove rumours are true, love him, but willing to back the club in the direction they want to go! If we end up with 12 or 10, take it to the draft and get one of Laverde, Pickett, De Goey, Lamb

Ideal incoming:

Coniglio, Brayshaw, Lever, Pickett, Stretch, Garlett, Lumumba, Frost

He's a Western Australian actually. And I'd rather bring in Greene and Coniglio and not bother about Brayshaw. For me, it's a case of known quantity versus unknown.

Edited October 12, 2014 by AdamFarr

[Fat Tony 5,272]

In my opinion Shiel is no chance to move.

IF there is one midfielder from GWS that could move it is Coniglio. Sure he is not from Vic but i dont think that matters to him. Best mates with Tyson, ex Pick 2. I heard rumours he was a real chance to get to the Dees earlier on in the season (rumours dont mean much i know).

Dom Tyson like trade: Pick 2 or 3 (Petracca) for Coniglio and Pick 6 (draft Lever) would seem fair to me (4 goes to the Bulldogs for Griffen and 6)

If the Trengove rumours are true, love him, but willing to back the club in the direction they want to go! If we end up with 12 or 10, take it to the draft and get one of Laverde, Pickett, De Goey, Lamb

Ideal incoming:

Coniglio, Brayshaw, Lever, Pickett, Stretch, Garlett, Lumumba, Frost

Coniglio hasn't shown enough for that IMO. He is worth about #10.

[Little Richard 6,265]

If it played out something like this, I'd have no complaints at all:

- Trengove and 23 for 12 and 30-odd from Tiges.

- 3 and 12 + steak knives (Blease etc) for Beams and Lumumba

- Clark to Geelong for their second rounder + Taylor Hunt

- Frost in the PSD

- Use pick two on Brayshaw.

Granted, none of that will likely happen, but it's a reasonable hypothetical.

In total, it would be:

Out: Clark, Frawley, Trenners, Pick 23, Pick 12, pick 69 or whatever it was for Garlett, and Pick 3

In: Brayshaw (p2), Beams, Lamumba, Garlett, Frost, Hunt and Richmond + Geelong's second rounders.

Would take that in a heartbeat

I believe the Lumumba, Clark and Varcoe deal is virtually done, according to Balme.

If Trenners were to go to Richmond, I'd definitely want their second rounder back with 12. Better yet, we should get Adelaide involved. I'd much, much rather see him playing there than at Richmond, if he goes.

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

Coniglio hasn't shown enough for that IMO. He is worth about #10.

Dom Tyson showed a lot less and we used pick 2 on him.

Coniglio potential could be far greater then Tyson.

I would do it in a heartbeat. I rate him very highly.

[Macca 17,034]

I agree, Macca. The thing is I think Roos agrees with you too. He'll try and take lower picks to the draft and trade off all our high picks. Can almost guarantee it.

Yep, and ... what if we pass on Petracca & Brayshaw and both turn out to be stars? lol

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place or perhaps we've got the choice of 2 great outcomes. Roos may go the drafting path if suitable trades don't eventuate.

I tend to agree with the bit I've highlighted from your post, all the same. We need to improve our chances of winning games right now and Roos knows that and will probably act accordingly.

He may also know that passing on Petracca and/or Brayshaw may not hurt us in the short term. Or ever hurt us if we trade well.

An example of that is the Tyson/Salem deal - right now, we're in front and the deal "looks" great. Kelly could still emerge though and Salem still has to prove himself (I reckon Salem will prove himself - maybe not A grade but he could be a very good player)

What's this got to do with Trengove? - the extra pick may well land us a big fish and if that happens, I'd possibly have my mind changed for me. Regrettably.

Can't deal with Jack playing well for the Tigers though

[KingDingAling 3,758]

I think the Crows will pull the trigger on this trade.

It is unlikely they'll get Durdin at 10 - especially if the Bullies remain at 6.

So Trengove will appeal to them, they might have an SA kid at 23 in their sights.

Trengove looked the best junior to come out of SA since Buckley - Adelaide will remember Trenners junior days.

[Mousey 47]

He's a Western Australian actually. And I'd rather bring in Greene and Coniglio and not bother about Brayshaw. For me, it's a case of known quantity versus unknown.

Yep i know that but like i said, i don't think it matters with him.

Coniglio hasn't shown enough for that IMO. He is worth about #10.

Shown just as much as Tyson did at GWS. Coniglio, Brayshaw and Lever is > Brayshaw and Petracca IMO anyway.

Looking forward to the end of this haha IN ROOS WE TRUST!

[Demoneyes 562]

People need to stop referring to the past and how we stuffed up picks etc. Our development of those players was terrible, not necessarily the picks. George Stone and co have the runs on the board in nthe development of players so I have full trust that whoever we pick for whatever reason will be great players for the Dees!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Coniglio hasn't shown enough for that IMO. He is worth about #10.

We are merely moving down 3 spots in the draft while getting an excellent midfielder who, before an injury interrupted pre-season, had shown plenty in his first few years at the club. Would be a good get... but I can't see GWS moving him on.