GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[Wunders 397]

Frawley is fast for a big bloke - sub 3sec 20m sprint test (2.98sec) was a highlight of his performance at the draft back in the day (source: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2006-11-23/phantom-draft-vii-2006-phantom-afl-draft).

That is one asset i don't think our current backmen have. Especially when one out in the goal square, none really have that closing down raw speed (e.g. Mcdonald against Nth when left one out).

Something to consider..

[rpfc 28,417]

RPFC - he had to be replaced in the backline because he was needed forward. Tom Macs development was always going to be better in the long run by leaving him in the backline, Garland was unavailable due to injury, and Dunn, well, he was moved forward as well.

As it has turned out, the backline has worked bloody well without Frawley, mainly because they had to.

Frawley is our best defender, and our backline is a far better place with him in it.

I can't believe your argument is that "it's functioning well without him". Is that your ceiling? I get excited about thinking about the level it could go to with him back down there. It could be the difference between a finals backline compared to a premiership backline.

Surely even you can see the point now?

I have always seen the point and I made it early - is he stays around in 2015 he will go back and he will make the backline better, but 2014 is showing you that he is far from integral to our backline.

The bigger point is that the club may not see $700k spent on making our defence slightly better a good investment. Throw that money at a midfielder and the gains are astronomically larger.

That is essentially stmj's argument and one I largely agree with, save for the fact that there are no guarantees we can lure that $700k midfielder or turn that compensation pick into that midfielder.

As RobbieF said - it's better to have one bird in the hand than worry about the theoretical bush.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We've won 4 games out of 13, we sit 15th on the ladder, and you think an AA quality defender isn't an integral part of our backline?

The question is how much would he improve our backline. The club will have a fair view of that, you have your opinion, I have mine. Is he worth $700k? Is that his asking price? You are making assumptions on nothing other than a newspaper article.

Frawley's even admitted himself that it is incorrect, so given you are taking his word for everything else, it would make sense that you do with this too.

[beelzebub 23,370]

you know...they say you only ever as good as your last (insert point of context )

Been a while since the ol' Chipper was AA....just saying

[rpfc 28,417]

We've won 4 games out of 13, we sit 15th on the ladder, and you think an AA quality defender isn't an integral part of our backline?

The question is how much would he improve our backline. The club will have a fair view of that, you have your opinion, I have mine. Is he worth $700k? Is that his asking price? You are making assumptions on nothing other than a newspaper article.

Frawley's even admitted himself that it is incorrect, so given you are taking his word for everything else, it would make sense that you do with this too.

Actually I believe the article mentioned $800k...

And he obviously is not an integral part of the backline. We have shaved 7 goals from last year and the I50s conceded still remain very high.

The proof is in reality, Billy.

That backline doesn't need Frawley. I didn't think I would be saying that a year ago but here we are. It would improve with him but enough to justify the investment of the wage Frawley is seeking (whatever number that may be)?

I guess the club has to make a decision aswell as James - ironically, his recalcitrance is helping the club make a more rounded decision.

Delay is sometimes good for all parties.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I would imagine if Frawley said "let's talk", we'd be all ears.

Using the stat of how many goals we have shaved off this year isn't 100% due to our backline. It has just as much to do with a much improved midfield unit that is pushing back and helping out. I'd be interested to know how many more scoring shots our opponents have had this year compared to last.

To say the backline doesn't need Frawley is obviously 100% correct - they are operating without him, and are surviving. Clearly, you're happy to survive rather than take it to higher levels, as you and I both know, he would make it significantly better.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Both Cloke and Boak waited until the end of the year to re-sign. It's a myth that all players who wait are gone. Jonesy, Pav and Nick Riewoldt all had thoughts of leaving their clubs at some point.

[rpfc 28,417]

Both Cloke and Boak waited until the end of the year to re-sign. It's a myth that all players who wait are gone. Jonesy, Pav and Nick Riewoldt all had thoughts of leaving their clubs at some point.

Maybe it's the US sports fan in me that this stuff doesn't bother me.

Le Bron opted out of a contract but may remain with Miami.

Just today, a few blokes were selected by NBA teams in the draft and then traded minutes later. Do one interview with one hat on, do the next with a different hat.

Free Agents are not allowed to sign until the window opens, even if they are re-signing with their own team.

The Restricted Free Agent model allows a team to match a salary that another team has agreed with one of their players. So your player has signed a contract with another team but you still keep him and everyone is expected to suck it up and move on.

This is the new world that we are a couple of years into. I am happy to not read into anything personally and try to maximise as much of what is happening to the clubs benefit. This is a professional sport.

[nutbean 8,838]

Both Cloke and Boak waited until the end of the year to re-sign. It's a myth that all players who wait are gone. Jonesy, Pav and Nick Riewoldt all had thoughts of leaving their clubs at some point.

I don't think anyone said "all" - but most of the footballers who have uttered the famous words in the last year of their contract - "I'm just going to concentrate on my footy and discuss my contract at seasons end" have actual meant " pffft - Im outta here".

Pav and Riewoldt did not wait until seasons end.to re-sign - I think Jones may have two contracts ago but not the last one.

[beelzebub 23,370]

I think what causes some to wonder is it was originally mooted that much depended upon what Roos was doing. Now its just 'wait til eos'

Some are skeptical.

[nutbean 8,838]

This is the new world that we are a couple of years into. I am happy to not read into anything personally and try to maximise as much of what is happening to the clubs benefit. This is a professional sport.

I differ slightly - I read intoit but understand it is a professional and players are freer to move on.

I now only emotional attach myself to footballers who have at least 2 years to run on their contract - and anyone who refuses to sign by mid season in their final year is dead to me - dead I tells ya.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Is this the death below?

I am just curious to know what about his 'conduct' is so appalling?

I think you are comparing him to higher standard that he shouldn't be compared to.

Those players that sign up regardless during the middle of the year like Trengove did in 2011 at the peak of our nonsense, they are not the standard to hold all others to account - they are the rare exception to applaud and amaze.

Boak is the new standard for loyal leaders at a club - explore your options and make a hard decision when the time comes. He made the harder choice and it is paying off for him. But he made it late, and he made it after meeting with the coach and LG of a different club. He has stayed and is applauded by all.

Or perhaps not applauded by all?

I've not ever stated that his conduct is 'appalling' - let alone, 'so appalling'.

In fact, to the contrary, I've said that Frawley is absolutely entitled to wait until the season end and assess all offers made to him before committing to any club.

I'd suggest you read the words that are actually written and accurately reflect the position that I have quite clearly put forward, rather than simply making stuff up.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Maybe it's the US sports fan in me that this stuff doesn't bother me.

Le Bron opted out of a contract but may remain with Miami.

Just today, a few blokes were selected by NBA teams in the draft and then traded minutes later. Do one interview with one hat on, do the next with a different hat.

Free Agents are not allowed to sign until the window opens, even if they are re-signing with their own team.

The Restricted Free Agent model allows a team to match a salary that another team has agreed with one of their players. So your player has signed a contract with another team but you still keep him and everyone is expected to suck it up and move on.

This is the new world that we are a couple of years into. I am happy to not read into anything personally and try to maximise as much of what is happening to the clubs benefit. This is a professional sport.

Dante is getting $3.00M in his first season of the NBA whether he plays or not.

Not bad bickies for an 18 year old!!!!

Fmd I will be encouraging my boy to step up his training!!

[rpfc 28,417]

I've not ever stated that his conduct is 'appalling' - let alone, 'so appalling'.

In fact, to the contrary, I've said that Frawley is absolutely entitled to wait until the season end and assess all offers made to him before committing to any club.

I'd suggest you read the words that are actually written and accurately reflect the position that I have quite clearly put forward, rather than simply making stuff up.

You are questioning his leadership. Am I making that up?

What is so appalling (whatever small degree of pall that you are referring) that would cause you to question his leadership?

Are leaders not allowed to delay contract talks?

I can make the leap that he is no Trengove when it comes to sacrificing for his club, but I don't hold leaders to that exospherical standard. I want to know why Boak and Cloke are lesser leaders for their respective contract delays.

Edited June 27, 2014 by rpfc

[Tatu 416]

Roos is on record as saying , as a commentator, that he would not play anyone he knew to be leaving. I think it was in reference to $cully. So I doubt that the administration know for sure. Still think he made the decision to go ages ago as history would suggest.

When Roos made that comment in regards to Scully, free agency didn't exist... Its a different game now and I'd expect someone like Roos to evolve his thinking... Its a new world and we will need modern thinkers running the show..

Surely you wouldn't hold him to something he said years ago?

He also said he'd never coach again... I'm not going to hold him to that...lol..

Edited June 27, 2014 by tatu

[chook fowler 19,458]

When Roos made that comment in regards to Scully, free agency didn't exist... Its a different game now and I'd expect someone like Roos to evolve his thinking... Its a new world and we will need modern thinkers running the show..

Surely you wouldn't hold him to something he said years ago?

He also said he'd never coach again... I'm not going to hold him to that...lol..

I'm not holding Roos to anything or suggesting that he shouldn't play Chip - many on this forum are suggesting Frawley should declare his intentions. You can see why he wouldn't. The system seems to encourage deception. However I'm not sure that Roos views would have altered his opinion despite free agency. Team loyalty and cohesion are his trademark.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

After having a good think about it, who could blame Chip for leaving?

he's been through a few false dawns, put up with the clubs constant off field mistakes, tanking saga, winning 33 games in 6 years or whatever It was, constant big losses, high draft picks failing to come on over and over

[KingDingAling 3,758]

After having a good think about it, who could blame Chip for leaving?

he's been through a few false dawns, put up with the clubs constant off field mistakes, tanking saga, winning 33 games in 6 years or whatever It was, constant big losses, high draft picks failing to come on over and over

No one will blame Chip for leaving. Considering the compo we'll receive - we are in a win/win situation.

[Robbie57 2,020]

His agent has spoken to Geelong and I'd say that means it's on the cards. Mind you I think Geelong are on the slide unless they get some top young mids. Frawley could find himself playing finals for one year only.

I'd prefer him to stay.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

What will be will be.

I am long past being emotionally attached to players.

Footy is a business, they get rid of players to improve their lists.

Just as they recruit to improve their lists.

The midfield is still where we lose games. Get a great bunch of midfielders and you can work with a group of second rate defenders.

If he stays that would be good, If he goes, no big deal.

[DemonOX 8,791]

What will be will be.

I am long past being emotionally attached to players.

Footy is a business, they get rid of players to improve their lists.

Just as they recruit to improve their lists.

The midfield is still where we lose games. Get a great bunch of midfielders and you can work with a group of second rate defenders.

If he stays that would be good, If he goes, no big deal.

We are going down exactly the same path as rugby league which I hate but don't forget the players wanted FA.

For some players it's all about them and not the club.

I realise that our club has been diabolical over the last 7 years but IMO I would take a lot more satisfaction with bringing the club out of the deeps of despair and into finals. CLEARLY we r on the improve and NOW have the best coach in the league.

IMO chip has had enough.

Who do u think would be more excited or satisfied with say either a premiership or finals win Jones or Chip (at another club)?

I know who I think would be.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

You are questioning his leadership. Am I making that up?

What is so appalling (whatever small degree of pall that you are referring) that would cause you to question his leadership?

Are leaders not allowed to delay contract talks?

I can make the leap that he is no Trengove when it comes to sacrificing for his club, but I don't hold leaders to that exospherical standard. I want to know why Boak and Cloke are lesser leaders for their respective contract delays.

You're not the only one who holds such views. They're legitimate views, although I have a different view.

And as to any further discussion on this topic with you, I'm tapping out. It's boring.

[Guest]

Geelong, as I am reading on the AFL website, would not be a good option for Chip.
While commentators, who like to hear the sound of their own voice, ramble about how amazing Geelong are (and they have been), the reality is is that they are reminding me of Hawthorn in 1993/94: a very handy club who have the potential to crack the top four but who in reality are in the middle of a slide. Watch that game last night and tell me that was a club who is going to win a premiership in the next 5 years.
Sure they have some decent youngsters but put bluntly, a lot of those blokes aren't going to become the next Gary Ablett Jr., Stevie J or Matty Scarlett. At their best they will probably make the finals every now and again and be a decent club.
I don't blame Chip for leaving as I think we are two years away from finals. However, Geelong isn't Shangri La and while it might feel good for a couple of years, he may end up disappointed that he didn't stay a one club player.

[Ted Lasso 19,516]

On the leadership point

How can one lead if he does not believe in the direction enough to commit to it?

I'm sure chip i a decent leader but to me its a strange position for him to be in

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

I don't think Chip is a leader at all.

He is a shy country kid who can play football.

I hope Roos coaches him for more than one year. But it lookes doubtful to me at this point.