Post Match Discussion - Round 8

[Pennant St Dee 11,323]

Ordinary. Stopped Griffen killing us but gave nothing the other way. He isn't a midfielder. Roos knew this when he put him in the backline for this season, but seemingly thought it was worth a go for this game. I doubt he'll try it again any time soon unless we are really short on mids.

IMO Griffen can hurt a side a lot more than Grimes can and I would call this a break even at least

[DemonOX 8,540]

I think you will find Tommy Mc has aspirations for the Leadership group at Melbourne, that should keep him in place

And dunny?

[Slartibartfast 15,799]

come on BB.

you have been a better judge of football in the past than that. of the 3 options which do you think it is? if you remember the moment, the player with the ball was actually holding it for a fair while as no players were free. But surely you have watched enough footy by now that if a player is manned up, they usually try to break off and get a step in front of their opponent dont they? this isnt me bashing on watts, he is a good kid and he had some good moments for the game. what i did say, if you read my post like you mentioned, was that it showed the difference in effort between the 2. one, a 70kg first year player who puts his body on the line whenever he needs to and works hard at every contest, vs a 6th year 196cm player who still isnt quite able to deliver intensity for 4 quarters.

wouldnt you prefer BB if we could both watch and know every player is giving everything and working hard at every contest, not just occasionally?

Look I just don't believe Watts didn't lead because he is a good for nothing lazy footballer, it just doesn't make sense. And if he was lazy then I'd expect him to be dropped this week because Roos won't put up with that. It also doesn't sit comfortably with the rest of his game which contained two memorable run down tackles that saved goals and a load of off the ball running.

I've only watched the first half again and if the incident is the one with about 7min 50 to run in the second quarter I think Watts knew that to kick it to him one out was the wrong play. The MFC player was a long way from Watts, perhaps 65 metres and the chances of hitting Watts was small Watts was one out and the cost of a turnover was high. I think Watts knew it was the wrong option.

The reality is that neither you or I know why he didn't lead. Your proposition is it was because he is lazy. Mine is that it's likely to be something else. I just found it disappointing that in an otherwise positive post you spent so much time and effort criticising DL's favourite kicking boy when there was a lot in his game to like.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Baghdad Bob

[nutbean 8,837]

Chap, I have already covered this, Nev is playing a specific role at the moment with specific instructions to keep it simple, Roos wants the defensive bit ingrained, ie it just happens, then when he has 22 all on the same page we will start to look at the offense, if you listen to him on any media, you will hear him say this....think a lot of it is to do with if Nev goes on a run, we have a midfielder going in behind him so if we unfortunately turn it over the opposition don't score from it and we can get it back..we still don't do this enough at the moment as the midfielders are getting used to working both ways

Agreed - I have heard Roos say defense first and then offense will come.

I applaud his defensive efforts. Even before Roos came besides one game and a couple of cameo's I haven't seen Nev being particularly offensive. Looking forward to seeing it - thats all I am saying (chap)

[SPC 2,822]

I live overseas and this was my first game for the year live. I watched Watts on numerous occasions not give an option on the wing from a ball coming out from the backline. You could argue that Watts had pushed hard from a previous contest, but aren't AFL footballers in the system as long as Jack supposed to make contest after contest. For me he just chooses when to go hard and that concerns me. Guys like Cross just go hard at every contest and that is the non negotiable that Roos will push in all his players. I am not sure Jack has the courage to push, when he is spent!

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

Agreed - I have heard Roos say defense first and then offense will come.

I applaud his defensive efforts. Even before Roos came besides one game and a couple of cameo's I haven't seen Nev being particularly offensive. Looking forward to seeing it - thats all I am saying (chap)

Nev is another one who has had a blighted 5 years, injury, suspension, mulitiple coaches, in and out of the team, different roles and positions, Roos loves identifying a player who he thinks can play a particular role, putting them in it and watching them blossom, (I am astonished as everybody at Pedersen's rise), Nev is a few weeks behind, but is actually loving what he is being given by the coaching staff, is fit and confident

This is why he was drafted in the first place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42TRYTJ0pc

[nutbean 8,837]

Nev is another one who has had a blighted 5 years, injury, suspension, mulitiple coaches, in and out of the team, different roles and positions, Roos loves identifying a player who he thinks can play a particular role, putting them in it and watching them blossom, (I am astonished as everybody at Pedersen's rise), Nev is a few weeks behind, but is actually loving what he is being given by the coaching staff, is fit and confident

This is why he was drafted in the first place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42TRYTJ0pc

Nice package - to be honest - every package of every draftee looks really good. Having said that, you can absolutely see what Roos is doing on getting them defensively right. I am just making the point that I am looking forward to seeing a bit more offense from players and Nev is one of them. Interestingly I have seen Ro Bail run hard forward of late in patches - nice to see.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,470]

The master didn't make a point, it was pure negativity, as for seeking feedback there is a certain group of posters on here that seek nothing of the sort, they express an 'opinion' and assume that everybody else will agree with it, and when it doesn't they go on and on as if to beat the rest into submission.......

Hahaha oh god, and all said without a hint of irony!!

[DeeSpencer 23,175]

Who said he was the most valuable player, I didn't, you can't have misquoted to make a point surely?....I said he was a valuable player at the moment. I wasn't one calling his future, you will find it is not a majority on Demonland who do this, but a small minority of footy genii

Master, I wear 39 on my jumper, I do watch Nev closely, not sure you do, that bolded comment is rubbish, he wouldn't be in the team if he did that, I have tried explaining a myriad of times but to no avail, his instructions at the moment, similar to a few other players, is not to try too much, Roos is trying to eradicate the stupid turnovers and it's working....solid foundations then you can add the decoration

Well we must be watching a different Nev Jetta.

Can you explain his 8 touches despite playing high half back or is that just part of his role as well?

There is a difference between trying too much and being overly attacking from the backline and aggressively running (often unrewarded) to help spread and get the ball moving. Everything I've seen in games and training tells me Roos doesn't want the first but he certainly wants the second.

Especially if Grimes and Howe stay in the backline and there are minimal injuries then I'm predicting that some time in the next couple of months despite good defensive footy Jetta will return to Casey if he doesn't increase his ability to find the ball.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,235]

It was the loss we had to have.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

Well we must be watching a different Nev Jetta.

Can you explain his 8 touches despite playing high half back or is that just part of his role as well?

There is a difference between trying too much and being overly attacking from the backline and aggressively running (often unrewarded) to help spread and get the ball moving. Everything I've seen in games and training tells me Roos doesn't want the first but he certainly wants the second.

Especially if Grimes and Howe stay in the backline and there are minimal injuries then I'm predicting that some time in the next couple of months despite good defensive footy Jetta will return to Casey if he doesn't increase his ability to find the ball.

According to that logic he should be dropped this week then, we shall wait and see

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

Hahaha oh god, and all said without a hint of irony!!

Gonz, nice to hear from you, bit of slow read today, we moved on from that chap, try staying on topic, we are discussing how valuable role players are in the team at present

[rjay 23,922]

Shoot me for saying this but if he can get 15% Bennell into him he would immeasurably better. Jetta does all the really hard stuff well but needs to get some easy ball and thus get involved. Bennell didnt do much hard stuff but looked good getting into space.

I don't know about this 'nut', one of Bennells problems was getting enough ball when he was with us. He seems to be getting a bit now but it has taken him a long time. Jetta has missed a lot of footy, I like that he is tough over the ball and hard to beat. His strength in the air is a bonus, Bennell could take a big grab over a pack but not a strong contested grab. Jetta was picking up a lot of ball at Casey before coming in so lets wait and see what consistent game time does for him.

[DeeSpencer 23,175]

According to that logic he should be dropped this week then, we shall wait and see

Um no. Because his Adelaide game was fantastic defensively and featured some rebounding and intercept marks it certainly brought him a few weeks in the side. But a middle of the road defensive performance and zero attacking was a step backwards. I predict it will the traditional Jetta pattern of one step forward (Adelaide game) followed by 3 or 4 slow steps backwards until the coaches look elsewhere.

[binman 38,363]

It was the loss we had to have.

I'll preface this post by saying that i really. really, really wanted us to win Saturday night. I also believe contrary to some others we should have won - we were the better side but our inside 50s really let us down and when we pushed we gave up some easy/lucky goals that meant we couldn't get a 2 goal buufer.

But i'm not gutted we didn't win.

Why? One, as Roos has said whilst wins are important this year they are not the main thing. Development, building a successful, strong culture, competitiveness and learning the Roos game are the the main things. The game would have helped those things and were certainly evidence of them.

Second , it will help us next time we are in a similar position. It would have stung the players and they will perhaps learn more from the loss that a win, particularly how to deal with the Dogs niggle.

Lastly (and i'm preparing for the attacks) whilst wins are always best we will be battling with 2-3 teams for the bottom rungs of the ladder, including Dogs. A loss might mean we end up with the 2 or 3rd pick in in the draft not 5th or 6th. That has double meaning if Frawley goes as if we get say pick 2 we would also get pick 3 as compo. No i'm not advocating tanking and wins are what build culture but higher picks won't hurt.

[rjay 23,922]

Um no. Because his Adelaide game was fantastic defensively and featured some rebounding and intercept marks it certainly brought him a few weeks in the side. But a middle of the road defensive performance and zero attacking was a step backwards. I predict it will the traditional Jetta pattern of one step forward (Adelaide game) followed by 3 or 4 slow steps backwards until the coaches look elsewhere.

I'm not sure he's ever really had the chance of 3 or 4 steps backwards before. He's been a bit of a yoyo, in and out...and not being at the game on Saturday from what I could see a lot of Dahlhauss' possessions came up the ground when he went into the midfield, he didn't hit the scoreboard. Did Jetta have Hunter for a period of time?

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

Um no. Because his Adelaide game was fantastic defensively and featured some rebounding and intercept marks it certainly brought him a few weeks in the side. But a middle of the road defensive performance and zero attacking was a step backwards. I predict it will the traditional Jetta pattern of one step forward (Adelaide game) followed by 3 or 4 slow steps backwards until the coaches look elsewhere.

Ah, so now you have moved the goalposts, it doesn't buy him a few weeks, which bit of the Roos philosophy don't you get, you are in the side as long as you play the role you are given, my understanding is that Nev did that at the weekend, if he is not in the side against Richmond it will mean the FD didn't think so, not supporters....if he is dropped I'll go to training and get an explanation as to why

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

I'm not sure he's ever really had the chance of 3 or 4 steps backwards before. He's been a bit of a yoyo, in and out...and not being at the game on Saturday from what I could see a lot of Dahlhauss' possessions came up the ground when he went into the midfield, he didn't hit the scoreboard. Did Jetta have Hunter for a period of time?

Yes, Nev took whoever the small forward was, swapping with Terlich until he went off, Cross dropped back then to share the load, but then again they are facts not conjecture and we can't have them clouding opinion

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

On a note by the way, I did ask Burgo whether we could get a AFL review like the VFL review, he did say the players get similar, but it would be a 'courageous' move to publish, leave it to Roos in his pressers

[ManDee 7,089]

[nutbean 8,837]

I don't know about this 'nut', one of Bennells problems was getting enough ball when he was with us. He seems to be getting a bit now but it has taken him a long time. Jetta has missed a lot of footy, I like that he is tough over the ball and hard to beat. His strength in the air is a bonus, Bennell could take a big grab over a pack but not a strong contested grab. Jetta was picking up a lot of ball at Casey before coming in so lets wait and see what consistent game time does for him.

I agree that Bennell didnt find the ball enough but the only time he did find it when he was a defender was as a "receiver". He ran off and got a handpass or chipkick ( rarely a hard ball).

Thats what i would like added to Nev's game. More two way involvement.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

No sorry wrong reference point, Fellini's Satyricon, which is based on the work by Petronious......

Petronius's original text survives only in fragments. While recuperating from a debilitating illness in 1967, Fellini reread Petronius and was fascinated by the missing parts, the large gaps between one episode and the next.^[19] The text's fragmentary nature encouraged him to go beyond the traditional approach of recreating the past in film: the key to a visionary cinematic adaptation lay in narrative techniques of the dream state that exploited the dream's imminent qualities of mystery, enigma, immorality, outlandishness, and contradiction.^[19] In Comments on Film, Fellini explained that his goal in adapting Petronius's classic was "to eliminate the borderline between dream and imagination: to invent everything and then to objectify the fantasy; to get some distance from it in order to explore it as something all of a piece and unknowable."^[2

^{Demonland on a good day}

[rjay 23,922]

I agree that Bennell didnt find the ball enough but the only time he did find it when he was a defender was as a "receiver". He ran off and got a handpass or chipkick ( rarely a hard ball).

Thats what i would like added to Nev's game. More two way involvement.

I would too, I think Roos will give him the time to develop that part of his game. I hope he can.

[ManDee 7,089]

No sorry wrong reference point, Fellini's Satyricon, which is based on the work by Petronious......

Petronius's original text survives only in fragments. While recuperating from a debilitating illness in 1967, Fellini reread Petronius and was fascinated by the missing parts, the large gaps between one episode and the next.^[19] The text's fragmentary nature encouraged him to go beyond the traditional approach of recreating the past in film: the key to a visionary cinematic adaptation lay in narrative techniques of the dream state that exploited the dream's imminent qualities of mystery, enigma, immorality, outlandishness, and contradiction.^[19] In Comments on Film, Fellini explained that his goal in adapting Petronius's classic was "to eliminate the borderline between dream and imagination: to invent everything and then to objectify the fantasy; to get some distance from it in order to explore it as something all of a piece and unknowable."^[2

^{Demonland on a good day}

I was looking for a Norman Lindsay painting, didn't find one. The band has a demonic bent so I went with that.

[rjay 23,922]

On a note by the way, I did ask Burgo whether we could get a AFL review like the VFL review, he did say the players get similar, but it would be a 'courageous' move to publish, leave it to Roos in his pressers

Yep, if we think the injury reports are a smoke screen these ones would be very interesting to see.

I think the FD will let other clubs do their own scouting and we can make up are own as usual on here that may or may not bear any resemblance to the real thing.

Edited May 14, 2014 by rjay