NAB Challenge 2 - Melbourne v Geelong

[DeeSpencer 25,703]

Spencer had more hitouts than any other ruck on the ground on Friday. You can add up the combination of the Richmond crew but he was basically working on his own with some help by King & Pedersen neither of whom you would call ruck men at this stage.

I think Spencer has been harshly marked for that bad kick. Being at the ground I thought he did a lot of good work around the ground and held his own in the ruck.

Yeah but in his time in the ruck he would've been beaten say 30 hit outs to his 20 odd. It would be nice if that number could be level.

Besides the bad kick there was the throw to Jones he was lucky to get away with and also he cost a goal hitting the ball straight down a Tigers throat at a defensive throw in.

Overall he probably did slightly more good than bad but the problem is he works all day to do good and then takes 3 crazy moments to stuff things up so quickly. He has to contribute enough positives because in every game you can kind of count that he'll concede a goal or two just by being a unco giraffe.

[DeeSpencer 25,703]

I thought his worst moment was when Edwards made a long lead back to the goal square of 40+ metres,getting a metre or twos break initially and Strauss could not close that down over a long distance. His closing speed is just not good enough to guard any forward willing to make long leads and he is not strong enough in body on body stuff.I'm not willing to totally write him off but definitely needs to improve his closing down speed or reading the play a little better.

Which is strange because when drafted he had top quality repeat sprints. Maybe the broken leg and bulking up has hurt his speed but I get the feeling he's a bit like Watts so far in that he hasn't unleashed his real speed. I think he needs to play with more confidence which is why I'm not against giving him all the NAB challenge and 4 weeks straight without being dropped. Grimes, Terlich, Frawley, Tom McDonald all are very good attacking defenders at finding the ball but they just don't hit the targets perfectly, we need to invest some time in a skilled player back there.

[Damo 3,356]

I would like to keep playing Spencer and see if he is better second up. He doesnt get to string many together.

Keep Gawn for later on.

I reckon many remember Mark Jamar as a good ruck but forget how slow/stiff he is.

He also doesnt win many in the ruck, just negates the other ruckman IMO.

Having said that, because we have so many on the bench, NAB cup is perfect for him to only play 20-30% of the game, as I doubt if he can go much more.

Spencer has a red hot go, and its good see a big man ready to get low for a ball, not stand around waiting for it to come out.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Did you watch the entire game or just the first quarter. In the first quarter he had 2 horrendous moments. 1 when he turned the ball over flat out to a Richmond player and another when running through the centre he panicked and dropped the ball leading to a turnover. From there he bounced back and hit targets perfectly for the rest of the night. I'm willing to excuse the kicking mistakes because they happened in the first quarter of the first game of the year.

I'm more worried about his lack of defensive impact. He seems really good at trailing opponents and then trying to get a punch in and not getting it done. Mainly he has a lack of desperation. I don't think he's soft because he doesn't back away from contact but he's a bit bruise free in that he needs to dish out some bruises by going harder. Has to play like his career is on the line in defence and that every possession an opponent gets is an insult to him.

Terlich isn't much better as a small defender. He often even is further behind trailing his man than Strauss. But when the ball is on the deck or when he is in the correct spot for a spoil he'll hit it at 110%.

Clisby is the one I want to see because he has good attacking instincts and reasonable skills but I think is a slightly better defender than both Strauss and Terlich but then again he's also quite short which is a pain.

I don't think any of them will get a look in for round one, now that Georgiou has put his hand up and will IMO be promoted from the rookie list. At this stage, my round one team would be:

FB Georgiou Frawley. Pederson

HB. Grimes. McDonald. Dunn

C. Watts. N Jones. Toumpas

HF: Viney. Dawes. Hogan

FF: Howe. Fitzpatrick. JKH

Foll: Gawn. Tyson. Vince

Inter: Trengove Salem Cross

Sub: Bleese

Reserves: Mckenzie. Michie. Bail. Matt Jones. Clisby. Byrnes

Not a bad side. Even better when Clark and Garland are available

[Disco Demons 92]

Roos will protect the younger players and push the older boys.

Protecting the kids will help them develop. Something we've not had the luxury in recent times.

Cross, Vince have started supremely. Gives blokes like trengove support.

I'm optimistic about our form this year. Think the depth will help unearth talent faster

[hulkhogan666 142]

I don't think any of them will get a look in for round one, now that Georgiou has put his hand up and will IMO be promoted from the rookie list. At this stage, my round one team would be:

FB Georgiou Frawley. Pederson

HB. Grimes. McDonald. Dunn

C. Watts. N Jones. Toumpas

HF: Viney. Dawes. Hogan

FF: Howe. Fitzpatrick. JKH

Foll: Gawn. Tyson. Vince

Inter: Trengove Salem Cross

Sub: Bleese

Reserves: Mckenzie. Michie. Bail. Matt Jones. Clisby. Byrnes

Not a bad side. Even better when Clark and Garland are available

Garland should be available for Rnd 1, in saying that I'd send Salem to the reserves (depending how he performs against Cats), but he's just too young to play AFL level week in week out, and how will Georgiou be available? Aidan Riley LTI?

For Salem I'd send Viv right in, I'd send Pederson to the reserves also, M Jones replaces him, I want Clisby to have more game time too, but he's still probably a little young, as is Toump but we all have bigger expectations for him.

On his form the other night I'd love to give Bail another roll of the dice, he really impressed me the other night, he might have taken himself off the hitlist at the end of the year if he keeps that type of form up.

[Webber 10,468]

Spencer had more hitouts than any other ruck on the ground on Friday. You can add up the combination of the Richmond crew but he was basically working on his own with some help by King & Pedersen neither of whom you would call ruck men at this stage.

I think Spencer has been harshly marked for that bad kick. Being at the ground I thought he did a lot of good work around the ground and held his own in the ruck.

Dead on. He has high expectations of himself and I think it tripped him up a bit. First hit out, he's allowed some mistakes, as are the others. He will be our no.1 ruck this year

[CBDees 3,167]

I don't think any of them will get a look in for round one, now that Georgiou has put his hand up and will IMO be promoted from the rookie list. At this stage, my round one team would be:

FB Georgiou Frawley. Pederson

HB. Grimes. McDonald. Dunn

C. Watts. N Jones. Toumpas

HF: Viney. Dawes. Hogan

FF: Howe. Fitzpatrick. JKH

Foll: Gawn. Tyson. Vince

Inter: Trengove Salem Cross

Sub: Bleese

Reserves: Mckenzie. Michie. Bail. Matt Jones. Clisby. Byrnes

Not a bad side. Even better when Clark and Garland are available

Although this is meant to be about Geelong/Melbourne where there are extra subs [c'f' Round 1), I don't mind the way you have nominated Salem as i too like the guy's approach and talent. Not sure why you have nominated Pederson [who has been training with the Forwards] in the back pocket in lieu of Terlich and that is one change that i would easily make. As regards the Geelong/Melbourne match [which this thread relates to] of would go with your team, with Terlich instead of Pedersen and Bail and Michie as the two additional interchange which we are allowed.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Just remember, Jamar is the tap out king. While he might not really offer much more than that, with a functioning midfield he could prove to be highly effective.

[old dee 23,791]

Just remember, Jamar is the tap out king. While he might not really offer much more than that, with a functioning midfield he could prove to be highly effective.

If he ever gets on the park again!

[rjay 24,927]

Just remember, Jamar is the tap out king. While he might not really offer much more than that, with a functioning midfield he could prove to be highly effective.

If he can't do anything around the ground it puts us one man down in the midfield. We need someone in the Cox mould who can get the ball around the ground, Neither of our 3 big options can do this, Gawn has the ability to but not the tank. Clark can, Fitz may develop and King looks likely in a few years.

[stuie 7,374]

Ask Ablett, he will tell you.

Really? We hanging our hat on one game now are we? Long gone are the days of the pure tagger, especially now that we actually have some decent midfielders.

Needs to learn how to kick and how to make space, otherwise we're a man down whenever we have the ball.

[stuie 7,374]

Yeah but in his time in the ruck he would've been beaten say 30 hit outs to his 20 odd.

So we're making up stats now?

[stuie 7,374]

Just remember, Jamar is the tap out king. While he might not really offer much more than that, with a functioning midfield he could prove to be highly effective.

Highly effective.... in say 1995.

Ruckmen need to give you more than hitouts these days.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Which is strange because when drafted he had top quality repeat sprints. Maybe the broken leg and bulking up has hurt his speed but I get the feeling he's a bit like Watts so far in that he hasn't unleashed his real speed. I think he needs to play with more confidence which is why I'm not against giving him all the NAB challenge and 4 weeks straight without being dropped. Grimes, Terlich, Frawley, Tom McDonald all are very good attacking defenders at finding the ball but they just don't hit the targets perfectly, we need to invest some time in a skilled player back there.

I agree completely - thought the same thing re Watts. Strauss is fast (I have seen it at training) he just hasnt been able to use it in game. I like strauss but can accept that his one on one work is just not acceptable. Although he always seems to be on his man (something Terlich doesnt do) he is always one metre behind. Part of me hopes that this is due to a lack of consecutive games at AFL level. Give him consecutive games (4) and it could pay off (like Fitzy) - if not then I will accept that he has had enough chances.

IMO - he is worth persiting with because he has some great attributes.

If he can adapt to AFL level and find some confidence then the skies the limit.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Young Dee

[deeko 952]

So we're making up stats now?

Not sure where people are pulling there stats from but the match centre stats on the AFL's web page has Spencer with 17. Hampson & Steff had 14 each and Griffiths 12. Melb had King and Pedro with a handful each.

Highly effective.... in say 1995.

Ruckmen need to give you more than hitouts these days.

Agree but Spencer doesn't give anything other than the occasional chase and tackle. For someone as big and strong as he is I would love him to crash a few more packs and take the occasional contested grab which I am yet to see.

[stuie 7,374]

Not sure where people are pulling there stats from but the match centre stats on the AFL's web page has Spencer with 17. Hampson & Steff had 14 each and Griffiths 12. Melb had King and Pedro with a handful each.

Agree but Spencer doesn't give anything other than the occasional chase and tackle. For someone as big and strong as he is I would love him to crash a few more packs and take the occasional contested grab which I am yet to see.

Talking about where someone was mentioning stats by saying "probably this" and "I think that"... Happy to talk opinions or stats, but don't get them confused.

I don't think Spencer is a star by any stretch, but modern footy demands the ruckman does more than tap it at the centre then stand around and wait. That's why, at this stage, I would much rather Spencer than Jamar in the team.

[old dee 23,791]

Talking about where someone was mentioning stats by saying "probably this" and "I think that"... Happy to talk opinions or stats, but don't get them confused.

I don't think Spencer is a star by any stretch, but modern footy demands the ruckman does more than tap it at the centre then stand around and wait. That's why, at this stage, I would much rather Spencer than Jamar in the team.

Me too, I also think that having the best tap Ruckman is not the be all.

We beat Richmond in spite of the fact that it would appear Richmond won more hit outs than the Dees.

Hawthorn won a grand final last year with ordinary Ruckmen.

[deeko 952]

Talking about where someone was mentioning stats by saying "probably this" and "I think that"... Happy to talk opinions or stats, but don't get them confused.

I don't think Spencer is a star by any stretch, but modern footy demands the ruckman does more than tap it at the centre then stand around and wait. That's why, at this stage, I would much rather Spencer than Jamar in the team.

I can understand that as he definitely puts more pressure on then Jamar but I just back the Rush as I think the quality of his hit outs are of a higher quality. I think we all just hope that Gawn comes on quickly and passes them both.

I'm excited to see how he (Rush) goes under Roos. He was clearly in the offside group with Neeld (best mates with Moloney and dropped from the leadership group) and I wonder if that impacted the way he played/wanted to play.

I have faith he will return to some good form this year.

[stuie 7,374]

I can understand that as he definitely puts more pressure on then Jamar but I just back the Rush as I think the quality of his hit outs are of a higher quality. I think we all just hope that Gawn comes on quickly and passes them both.

I'm excited to see how he (Rush) goes under Roos. He was clearly in the offside group with Neeld (best mates with Moloney and dropped from the leadership group) and I wonder if that impacted the way he played/wanted to play.

I have faith he will return to some good form this year.

I've got Gawn and Clark in the same book at the moment. Not expecting, and trying to keep my hopes down, thinking of them as a bonus if they get up and about.

[deeko 952]

I've got Gawn and Clark in the same book at the moment. Not expecting, and trying to keep my hopes down, thinking of them as a bonus if they get up and about.

I think we are all in the same boat.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

[old dee 23,791]

I think we are all in the same boat.

Hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Unfortunately it would seem deeko that in recent years we have planned for the best and got the worst.

[DeeSpencer 25,703]

So we're making up stats now?

Do they keep stats on hit outs against for each ruck? As they don't to my knowledge and I knew Spencer had around 20 (it was 17) and the Tigers 3 bigs had 40 between them.

Do the maths from there you see that as Spencer rucked around 80% of the game it would be likely for his time in the ruck he lost the hit outs at about 30-17. So 30-20 is about fair.

Either way against a combination of Stephenson, Griffiths and Hampson he got first hands on the ball at about 40% of the time. I would like him to get that up to above 50% which as he's taller and stronger than a lot of opponents he will face is not unreasonable. Greg Stafford has a heap of work to do.

One thing i will say for Spencer is that at least when he does take a proper leap at a hit out and win it he can hit the ball to more directions than Jamar who because of his lack of height or jump is really forced to just knock the ball backwards. Gun midfielders will feed too easily off that predictability as they have ever since we lost Moloney who just sat under Jamar's left hand and copped whatever heat was thrown at him. In 2012 and 2013 Jamar's once strong hit out ability has become rather useless. He just gets credit for not letting the opposition win rather than actually winning himself. Stripping a few kg's off him and making him fitter might see him returning to a more athletic approach in the ruck that could result in better hit outs. Will Minson showed in 2013 you don't have to be tall and athletic to get the ball where you want it to the midfielders if you really attack the contests not just aim to draw them.

[Elwood 3184 1,301]

Melbourne's 2014 Community Camp is taking place in Alice Springs ahead of Friday's NAB Challenge match against the Cats.

The Demons will be running activities on Thursday and the game should be a major boost for footy in the country's centre.

The Central Australian Redtails Football Club has had two trial seasons in the NTFL and is set to be a full member of the competition in 2014-5. The club announced last week that Hollywood movie star Chris Hemsworth has been named its national and international ambassador - Chris Hemsworth named ambassador of the Redtails.

On a sadder note, the Liam Jurrah saga just gets sadder and sadder - Former AFL footballer Liam Jurrah appears in Alice Springs court looking frail and exhausted.

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

Well in regards to the rucks, v Geelong it will be slightly easier, Vardy has done his ACL in training.

Hope he gets back with no lasting problems.