How about Chris Dawes for Captain

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think the ideal person for Captain next year is Chris Dawes: a premiership player, over 100 games, would be in the first ten picked every week, by all reputes someone of impeccable integrity, and smart, even before he completes his Law degree!!!

It is interesting the commentary around Dustin Martin (as much as I would be dead against him coming to the Dees).. A number of the commentators when discussing Martin coming to Melbourne say "Martin and his mob would run rings around our young and inexperienced leadership group". I think it is part of the narrative which has developed over the last three years or so of us being the laughing stock of the League. Almost painted by some as amateurs among pros. Now much of this has dissipated since Roos has arrived, but it is really important from now that everything we do is hard nosed and credible in the eyes of our opponents so they cannot any longer get a "free kick" at us from our naiveté.

As it stands, Dawes, even at 24, is the most experienced player at the club. I don't think we could do much better, and would be highly respected by the football world.

What does everyone else think?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,477]

Dawes has shown leadership in the games he played for us this year but if there is to be a change it must go to Jones. He's been busting his arse since arriving.

[dazzledavey36 55,892]

Needs to sort his body out before he is even mentioned as a potential captain.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

We need an A grade mid fielder to show us the way.

I don't know who the club is targeting, but they should be after someone who is paid unders at their club and offer him.

The captains job and the $$$ to go with it.

We have not had an A grade mid field leader since Todd Viney. Look what's happened to the club since he left.

[Deez 298]

I think nath jones is an A grader already. If we can improve our midfield, jones will be terrific.

Jones should be captain if there is to be a change but I'm all for Dawes taking a big role in the leadership group, I couldn't knock his efforts this year. He's been great.

[Notorious D 29]

I'd be happy for Grimes to keep it on his own. Think Trengove should focus on his footy for the next couple of years.

Dawes needs to focus on getting his body right, but he should still be in the leadership group.

[trout 385]

I would be more inclined in trading him than making him captain.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I think nath jones is an A grader already. If we can improve our midfield, jones will be terrific.

Jones should be captain if there is to be a change but I'm all for Dawes taking a big role in the leadership group, I couldn't knock his efforts this year. He's been great.

Nate is definitely our best midfielder, but definitely not A grade.

I reckon if you went through 17 other clubs, they would have 2 better mid fielders each that would rate better than Nate.

Collingwood: Pendles, Swan, Beam

Swans: Kennedy O'keefe Mitchell Jack

Geelong: Selwood Bartel Christensen, Stevie J the whole side

Freo: Barlow Fyfe Crowley

Hawks ; Rioli Franklin Mitchell Sewell Hodge

Richmond: Cotchin Martin Conca

PA Boak Wines

Adelaide: Dangerfield Thompson Sloane

Doggies Griffen Boyd Libba

Even Carlton: Gibbs Murphy Judd Mclean

Essendon: Watson Stanton Wunderlich Zaharakis

GWS: Ward Scully Adams

GCS: Ablett O'meara Swallow

Brisbane: Rockliff Rich

North : Swallow Thomas

Saints: Montagna Dal Santo

Eagles: Priddis Shuey Selwood

[Clayton van Oliver 1,826]

Needs to get the body right. I'd put Clark in the same bracket: huge leadership potential, but needs to stay on the park first.

[warren dean 193]

I think Roos might like Garland for the top job after reading his book and what he had to say about the decision to appoint Maxfield at the Swans. I'd still keep Grimes as well.

[Deez 298]

Nate is definitely our best midfielder, but definitely not A grade.

I reckon if you went through 17 other clubs, they would have 2 better mid fielders each that would rate better than Nate.

Collingwood: Pendles, Swan, Beam

Swans: Kennedy O'keefe Mitchell Jack

Geelong: Selwood Bartel Christensen, Stevie J the whole side

Freo: Barlow Fyfe Crowley

Hawks ; Rioli Franklin Mitchell Sewell Hodge

Richmond: Cotchin Martin Conca

PA Boak Wines

Adelaide: Dangerfield Thompson Sloane

Doggies Griffen Boyd Libba

Even Carlton: Gibbs Murphy Judd Mclean

Essendon: Watson Stanton Wunderlich Zaharakis

GWS: Ward Scully Adams

GCS: Ablett O'meara Swallow

Brisbane: Rockliff Rich

North : Swallow Thomas

Saints: Montagna Dal Santo

Eagles: Priddis Shuey Selwood

That's fine that you have that opinion, but I personally would put Nathan ahead of quite a few of those mentioned.. Certainly not j selwood or Mitchel. But better than half that list. I can't be bothered writing out the names. He would get a game at any club. Next year, hopefully he won't have to hold up the midfield himself and we will see a more free jones.

[Pates 9,678]

I like Dawes, and his leadership abilities are obvious. But I would rather we have a midfielder as a sole captain as forwards come have really quite days whereas someone like Jones you can get a guaranteed contribution even if all you see of him is his bald head diving into packs.

I also think Dawes needs to have an injury free year before we have him as our captain, same goes for Clark. Both of them ooze leadership but I just want them out on the park to start off with.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Pates

[DeeSpencer 26,301]

Nate is definitely our best midfielder, but definitely not A grade.

I reckon if you went through 17 other clubs, they would have 2 better mid fielders each that would rate better than Nate.

Collingwood: Pendles, Swan, Beames. Can't argue with that

Swans: Kennedy, Jack, o'keefe. Add Hannebery, on par with O'Keefe I'd say

Geelong: Selwood, Stevie J, probably on par with Kelly, then they use a lot of young guys and guys like Bartel, Chapman and Corey in rotation which makes them hard to judge

Freo: Barlow Fyfe Crowley add Mundy.

Hawks ; Rioli Franklin Mitchell Sewell Hodge, the forwards dont count. Mitchell and Hodge obviously then he's be about equal with Lewis and Sewell

Richmond: Cotchin Martin Conca, he's got Conca covered, not sure he's much off Martin. Richmond's midfield strength is its depth

PA Boak Wines. Better than Wines, but on par with Ebert and Hartlett who has more upside than Jones, so does Wingard

Adelaide: Dangerfield Thompson Sloane. Probably equal with Thompson who's on the decline this year. But Couch is rising fast

Doggies Griffen Boyd Libba, Jones is probably gone past Boyd but I'll give you the other 2

Even Carlton: Gibbs Murphy Judd Mclean. Jones is equal at least to Brock, better than Gibbs and Judd is slowing down (Except in finals against Richmond)

Essendon: Watson Stanton Wunderlich Zaharakis. Obviously Watson. Jones might be close to Heppell and Goddard. Zaharakis doesn't have consistency yet. Winderlich is a forward pocket now

GWS: Ward Scully Adams. Jones is far superior to Scully and Adams! Ever seen Adams tagged? Ward has a slight edge and guys like Shiel are coming

GCS: Ablett O'meara Swallow. Better than Swallow and more consistent than O'Meara, Prestia is the one who is nearly on par with Jones after this year I'd say

Brisbane: Rockliff Rich. Add Redden who's close to Jones and Hanley. Brisbane have a great top 4

North : Swallow Thomas. Thomas is a forward? And Jones is better than Swallow. Level with Wells. Ziebell is North's best mid. Cunnington not bad. And Boomer Harvey

Saints: Montagna Dal Santo. Fair call although Dal had minimal impact this year. Add Jack Steven who is their best player now

Eagles: Priddis Shuey Selwood. No Priddis. Probably not Selwood either. There Jones' level. Shuey has potential but hasn't put it together

So in all you are right, about 2 per club. But it's not a linear correlation. I'd say the Hawks only have 2 in Mitchell and Hodge who are clearly better than Jones, but then they have a super even spread of guys like Rioli, Burgoyne, Lewis, Sewell, Shields, Smith. Where as Freo have the 4 in Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe and the tagger Crowley. The rest of their midfield with Hill being the best but Suban, Mzungu, Pearce, Sheridan, Neale aren't such big names as the hawks.

I've got no doubt if we developed some depth which we have some building blokes for and we stumbled along stars - be they Taylor Adams, Dustin Martin, Jack Viney even if they aren't super stars and are just Jones level then the team will be right up there.

Roos won his premiership at Sydney without a heap of star factor. Barry Hall (who was good but no Wayne Carey) and Goodes (who was a star but I'd argue not quite a Chris Judd level even though he won Brownlows) were the star factor. After that the next biggest star was Leo Barry after he took that mark.

[Pitchy 196]

Do a side by side Chris Dawes and Brad Miller over their careers. Same player, same statistics. 11-13 touches 1 goal per game. I'm guessing Dawes is better schooled, and obviously a stronger leader, because he has everyone thinking he is gods gift. There is a reason Pies let him go in favour of Q-Stick. Dawes is a servicable second string tall when we have injuries to our forward line talent - no more.

(And I didn't like the way he stood up for Neeldy ad nauseum. Writing articles about how its all the players fault... laughably wrong in that situation)

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Nathan Jones is our heart and soul spiritual leader, he doesn't need to be captain to be a leader but i think his being our best player for the last few years and leading the way he has earns him the right to be our captain in 2014.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Nathan Jones is our heart and soul spiritual leader, he doesn't need to be captain to be a leader but i think his being our best player for the last few years and leading the way he has earns him the right to be our captain in 2014.

if it were up to me no other consideration would go anywhere even close, N.Jones sole captain for 50 good reasons

[Chook 15,023]

Do a side by side Chris Dawes and Brad Miller over their careers. Same player, same statistics. 11-13 touches 1 goal per game. I'm guessing Dawes is better schooled, and obviously a stronger leader, because he has everyone thinking he is gods gift. There is a reason Pies let him go in favour of Q-Stick. Dawes is a servicable second string tall when we have injuries to our forward line talent - no more.

(And I didn't like the way he stood up for Neeldy ad nauseum. Writing articles about how its all the players fault... laughably wrong in that situation)

It IS the players' fault. Effort comes from just one place, and it isn't the coach.

[Pitchy 196]

It IS the players' fault. Effort comes from just one place, and it isn't the coach.

Nope. Read up on the impact of 'culture' on organisations. The coaches are and bosses are paid the most for a reason. You can't tell me the players enjoy looking like fools week in week out? Players always desperately wanted to win, the tone is set from above and also the onfield leaders (culled by Neeld).

Saying 'it's the players not trying hard enough' is to say that we may as well get rid of all coaches and management.

Just watch them grow and bust a gut under Roos. Coach and CEO change has been what we have needed. We have that now, unfortunately it will take a little longer to show as it might've as Neeld tore holes in our list but anyway we are on the right track.

Glad you agree with my other point thought that Dawes is only a small step above spud level.

[Chook 15,023]

Nope. Read up on the impact of 'culture' on organisations. The coaches are and bosses are paid the most for a reason. You can't tell me the players enjoy looking like fools week in week out? Players always desperately wanted to win, the tone is set from above and also the onfield leaders (culled by Neeld).

Saying 'it's the players not trying hard enough' is to say that we may as well get rid of all coaches and management.

Just watch them grow and bust a gut under Roos. Coach and CEO change has been what we have needed. We have that now, unfortunately it will take a little longer to show as it might've as Neeld tore holes in our list but anyway we are on the right track.

Glad you agree with my other point thought that Dawes is only a small step above spud level.

Geelong's fantastic culture is player driven, just as all great cultures are. In fact, the is no such thing as culture unless it refers to what the majority are doing.

There are instances of what you call "cults of personality," where strong individuals are able to change the behaviour of large groups of people. But 99% of the time, changes in culture only occur by consensus of the majority. In this case, the players are responsible for the culture of the club, and if it does change it will likely be a player-driven thing.

I'm sure you're aware of the concept of a scapegoat. There are no bigger scapegoats in any organization I've ever seen than the senior coaches of football clubs. Even Roos has said that his role will be to oversee a team of coaches. The team is the most important thing, and if Roos has a strength it's that he sees that better than most.

And no, Chris Dawes is not a spud. So there's that.

[Pitchy 196]

Geelong's fantastic culture is player driven, just as all great cultures are. In fact, the is no such thing as culture unless it refers to what the majority are doing.

There are instances of what you call "cults of personality," where strong individuals are able to change the behaviour of large groups of people. But 99% of the time, changes in culture only occur by consensus of the majority. In this case, the players are responsible for the culture of the club, and if it does change it will likely be a player-driven thing.

I'm sure you're aware of the concept of a scapegoat. There are no bigger scapegoats in any organization I've ever seen than the senior coaches of football clubs. Even Roos has said that his role will be to oversee a team of coaches. The team is the most important thing, and if Roos has a strength it's that he sees that better than most.

And no, Chris Dawes is not a spud. So there's that.

Hold on, it wasn't the players initially at Geelong. Geelong is an example of where the 'Leading Teams' concept was executed to perfection. The players famously became empowered by the process which was instigated... by management! Ablett became the champion we know and love and the true leaders spoke out and were supported and became footballing legends. Melbourne's leading teams report was hidden by Cam Schwab cos it criticised him. The senior players and coach were then systematically hunted down by the CEO and then booted by Neeld. Neeld brought hacks in and his coaching record speaks for itself - no scapegoating needed. Our leaders were delisted, demoted or had walked out by the time Dawesy walked in, and the playing list was all at sea.

Of course players need to try hard, that is a given. But the point I was making is that with the level of rubbish heaped on them prior to Chris Dawes arrival (on an inflated salary for his moderate talent mind) it was a bit rich of Dawesy to start writing articles about how it's not the coaches and the players need to put in more effort.

Just watch this space and see what 'effort' they muster with Peter Jackson and Paul Roos at the helm. With a supportive culture they wont know themselves.

[nutbean 8,838]

It IS the players' fault. Effort comes from just one place, and it isn't the coach.

I am with you. I have no doubt that Neeld was detrimental to the players performances and development but they didn't fair all that much better under Craig. At the end of the day it is the players responsibility for kicking the damn footy and blaming the coaching for the players putrid efforts is giving the players a get out of jail free card.

[Juicebox 629]

Do a side by side Chris Dawes and Brad Miller over their careers. Same player, same statistics. 11-13 touches 1 goal per game. I'm guessing Dawes is better schooled, and obviously a stronger leader, because he has everyone thinking he is gods gift. There is a reason Pies let him go in favour of Q-Stick. Dawes is a servicable second string tall when we have injuries to our forward line talent - no more.

(And I didn't like the way he stood up for Neeldy ad nauseum. Writing articles about how its all the players fault... laughably wrong in that situation)

No it wasn't. I always find it refreshing to see a Melbourne player wanting to show some accountability for their poor performance.

Too many excuses over the years.

[Redleg 41,952]

I prefer my Captains to actually play most games.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I prefer my Captains to actually play most games.

sheesh the bloke played 23 out of 25 in 2012, this year he had a few injuries.. that happens in football.. there is no reason to suggest it will happen again

[DeeSpencer 26,301]

I do not understand why everyone is so keen for one particular captain. It's crazy when we don't have the guy. Jones, Dawes, Grimes, Trengove, Garland. Pick 2-3 of those 5 depending on preseason and go with it.