Aish or Martin

[tonatopia 278]

Pick 2 for scharenberg.

I am rarely wrong.

If only the recruiters would listen.

We also must try to pick up;

Zak jones

Liam Jurrah, again

And our forward pocket midfielder, garlett.

We can snare Martin outside the draft.

I would then be happy

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I'm a billings fan.

Only based on what I've seen

[dazzledavey36 48,924]

Aish can bulk up once drafted.

Has elite agility, good quickness, good decision-making, good skills, decent athleticism, reads the play well, wins his own footy.

Dunstan has a good tank but is a plodder, bigger than other kids his age and should dominate more than he does considering, doesn't win enough of the footy, not great at reading the play,

Kicking underwhelming - nowhere near as good as billed.

A bit like Tapscott with a tank, but not as physically imposing at the junior level nor as good a kick.

What the club needs has no bearing on where Dunstan should be selected, nor is your assessment of what we need correct.

Bulked up like Morton, Scully. It will make him slightly bigger thats it.

Elite skills, quick agility blah blah i have heard that with Watts, Cook and Morton.

Aish cant deal with a tag it showed at the championships when he had low numbers of disposal. So to say dunstan cant win his own ball is crock [censored] compared to Aish.

. Dunstan was getting tagged and still won alot of the ball. And like i said your basing your View on watching SA championships. I have seen. SANFL footage of Dunstan winning his ball, crashing packs and actually having very deceent disposal and speed.

Glen Bartletf said we need mongral in our side, well Dunstan is a mongral. Aish is a mouse.

[DeeZee 6,776]

Hogan seems to think we should pick up Sheed.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Hahaha Luke Dunstan better than Aish??

Most overhyped ordinary player since Serhat Temel and Matthew Panos.

Don't forget Casey Sibosado.

[Ted Lasso 16,875]

I'm a billings fan.

Only based on what I've seen

I really like Billings also, but Roos said the other day he thinks we have alot of flankers who can rotate through the midfield and not alot of genuine mids and that's a huge issue for us, so i think this will count against Billings.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

I dont understand the hype. Soft stick figure who plays outside when obviously our needs are tough inside mids to help Jonesy and Viney.. Luke Dunstan fit that bill. Strong, a maniac at the contest, leadership outstanding captained SA, can play half forward and kick goals, and jsuch a physical beast.

We went for Toumpas last year , as you have said.... Time to add more grunt.

[Return to Glory 7,746]

Pick 2 for scharenberg.

I am rarely wrong.

If only the recruiters would listen.

We also must try to pick up;

Zak jones

Liam Jurrah, again

And our forward pocket midfielder, garlett.

We can snare Martin outside the draft.

I would then be happy

I have wondered about the machinations of picking up Martin outside of the draft. Is that a possibility?

[hayz 27]

Hogan seems to think we should pick up Sheed.

I do too! I hope we get Sheed over Dunstan.

[MFC-1858 2]

What [censored] wouldn't draft based on potential?

One of the most perplexing statements I've seen on this forum.

Do you even understand what you said?

Higher Ceiling is probably a better way to describe it. I am not trying bash Aish, and if we end up with him i wont b complaining. All i am saying is in the latest drafts we have missed on guys who have a perceived greater ceilings instead of drafting more of a 'sure thing'.

Watts before Rich (Bris)

Cook before Darling (WCE)

Toumpas before Wines (Port)

Morton before ANYBODY

[Dees2014 2,377]

Talk of what to do with pick two and Roo's public interest in Martin for pick two has disturbed me.

Roos is presumably around for two to three years and maybe sees value in trying to civilize Martin. But after that he is gone and we could have a Scully part 2 problem on our hands.

Pick two is a treasured pick. We don't just want a good midfielder. Premiership teams have elite midfielders. Our search must be for a few elite ones. I know there are no guarantees with any pick, but the conventional wisdom says trust your high draft picks.

With Boyd presumably going at pick one, then that leaves us with the chance to pick the best midfielder out of this years pack.

I want this years best junior midfielder, not a problematic ex tiger.

It is interesting you know, but if GWS can't afford Martin as a result of salary cap issues from the Buddy Franklin deal, we do not need to use pick two for Martin, we can snare him in the pre-season draft. Under those circumstances, he certainly would be a steal, although I still have serious issues on how his recruitment sits with Roos' "no [censored]" policy, as Dimetriou opined on "Talking Footy" last night.

He would be a great pick up though at number 2 in the PSD - another astute Roos move?

Edited September 17, 2013 by Dees2014

[corowa 216]

Higher Ceiling is probably a better way to describe it. I am not trying bash Aish, and if we end up with him i wont b complaining. All i am saying is in the latest drafts we have missed on guys who have a perceived greater ceilings instead of drafting more of a 'sure thing'.

Watts before Rich (Bris)

Cook before Darling (WCE)

Toumpas before Wines (Port)

Morton before ANYBODY

Drafting seems to be an art that we (MFC) have failed to achieve.

Some ordinary players but a lot of selections that fail to make the grade or certainly not meet the potential they showed.

Discussion here has thrown up several youngsters that posters believe we should take with pick 2. Aish, Billings, Dunstan, Sharenberg and Sheed are five of these.

Going on past form there is no guarantee that our repeated 'poor' drafting choices will not reoccur this year.

Relinquishing selection 2 for a proven mid-fielder might be a wiser choice than using it on a kid with potential but with no guarantee that he will meet that potential.

Whether pick 2 is used on Dustin Martin - he can play, but he does come with 'baggage', or another proven player is open to conjecture and is one of the reasons why Paul Roos is being paid such a big salary.

I don't envy him his choice. I do hope he makes the right decision.

[Machsy 2,858]

This time last year Oliver Wines was also big for his age and a bit of a plodder. Toumpas had similar traits to that of Aish. In regards to talent, skill set and need I would take a Sheed or Dunstan over Aish any day.

EDIT: phone typo

Simplistic assessment.

Incorrect imho.

[rjay 23,930]

Most people here, including myself don't know enough about Aish. We only hear and read about how great he is via a game of Chinese whispers, by the end we think he's the next big thing or God's gift and like most years regarding the top 3 selections they fail to live up to those expectations within their first two years. It will usually take anywhere from 3-5 years before we see the true signs as to how great they will or won't become (consistency within their game).

Aish is very overated.

Luke Dunstan will be a far more better player and long career.

Finally someone game enough to say it, agreed! Be wary of the pitchforks

You don't know enough about Aish but know that he is overrated and that Dunstan will be a better player???

I dont understand the hype. Soft stick figure who plays outside when obviously our needs are tough inside mids to help Jonesy and Viney.. Luke Dunstan fit that bill. Strong, a maniac at the contest, leadership outstanding captained SA, can play half forward and kick goals, and jsuch a physical beast.

If you want hard at the ball, tough and clearance machine then it is hands down Crouch, a much better prospect than Dunstan.

[MFC-1858 2]

Drafting seems to be an art that we (MFC) have failed to achieve.

Some ordinary players but a lot of selections that fail to make the grade or certainly not meet the potential they showed.

Discussion here has thrown up several youngsters that posters believe we should take with pick 2. Aish, Billings, Dunstan, Sharenberg and Sheed are five of these.

Going on past form there is no guarantee that our repeated 'poor' drafting choices will not reoccur this year.

Relinquishing selection 2 for a proven mid-fielder might be a wiser choice than using it on a kid with potential but with no guarantee that he will meet that potential.

Whether pick 2 is used on Dustin Martin - he can play, but he does come with 'baggage', or another proven player is open to conjecture and is one of the reasons why Paul Roos is being paid such a big salary.

I don't envy him his choice. I do hope he makes the right decision.

Thats why in my opinion, many Demons supporters wouldn't be against using the pick on a proven commodity in Dustin Martin. It also comes down to Roos. I think a lot more will become evident if and when we sure up the Sylvia and Watts situation. I like Martin but would prefer spedning the pick on Scott Selwood who comes without the baggage and has more leadership qualities, but thats for another forum p

[dazzledavey36 48,924]

Jack Watts, Cale Morton, Bryce Gibbs, Tom Scully, Jimmy Toumpas and Sam Blease What do they all have in common?

Daniel Rich, Patrick Dangerfield, Joel Selwood, Dustin Martin, Luke Shuey and Oliver Wines have in common?

Notice the difference?

[tonatopia 278]

Jack Watts, Cale Morton, Bryce Gibbs, Tom Scully, Jimmy Toumpas and Sam Blease What do they all have in common?

Daniel Rich, Patrick Dangerfield, Joel Selwood, Dustin Martin, Luke Shuey and Oliver Wines have in common?

Notice the difference?

Barrell chests vs light physiques.

Scharenberg!!!!

[Whispering_Jack 28,010]

This time last year Oliver Wines was also big for his age and a bit of a plodder. Toumpas had similar traits to that of Aish. In regards to talent, skill set and need I would take a Sheed or Dunstan over Aish any day.

Better still, if we get a priority pick which some believe we shouldn't have even requested, we could probably get both an Aish and a Sheed.

[dazzledavey36 48,924]

Barrell chests vs light physiques.

Scharenberg!!!!

Yes scharenberg has the body to build up to a pretty solid midfielder.

Barrell chested blokes have made an impact at AFL.

The light physics were all outside highly rated teenage player who are all still struggling to make consistant impact in the AFL. They havent lived up to there rating of being very talented teenagers back when they dominated under 18s

[Tatu 416]

Talk of what to do with pick two and Roo's public interest in Martin for pick two has disturbed me.

Roos is presumably around for two to three years and maybe sees value in trying to civilize Martin. But after that he is gone and we could have a Scully part 2 problem on our hands.

Pick two is a treasured pick. We don't just want a good midfielder. Premiership teams have elite midfielders. Our search must be for a few elite ones. I know there are no guarantees with any pick, but the conventional wisdom says trust your high draft picks.

With Boyd presumably going at pick one, then that leaves us with the chance to pick the best midfielder out of this years pack.

I want this years best junior midfielder, not a problematic ex tiger.

id have Aish over Martin.... But with all this trash talk about Martin, i reckon we could probably get with a second rounder....lol... Why not aim for both!!

[Moonshadow 16,275]

My cousin who also played in the u/18 SA team said that Aish is very similar to Toumpas, an outside player who doesn't like the rough stuff. He reckons that Scharenberg is the better player and has a much better attitide. Aish has a lot of tickets on himself. Aish may have the greater potential but how many times are we gonna draft potential and come up empty handed!!!

What a foolish comment. All of these guys are being drafted on potential. None of them have played senior AFL so it's all about considered potential. Are you saying we should trust your 17 yo cousin's 'inside information', a tennager who has limited knowledge on these guys and absolutely no experience in drafting players to play AFL footy?!!! Now I've heard it all. Lol!

[Swampfox 190]

Aish hands down

Martin has some pros but the baggage that he would bring is a major and unacceptable con

[mikeydemon 126]

Although i feel Aish is the best prospect coming out of the draft (aside from Boyd at #1), he isn't what we need!
Toumpas and Aish are extremely similar
Someone like Sheed or Nathan Freeman appeals to me more
Hopefully with pick #21 we can pick up a second big bodied midfielder that slides (Dunstan or Dumont)

Absoloute no to Martin. If we're to take a risk on anyone it should be Dayle Garlett as a late pick in the draft or a rookie selection. We desperately need a small forward who can rotate as a mid

[deanox 8,676]

If Martins response to enquiries is that is money is his issue at Richmond and that he is willing to come to Melbourne for the right money, I would approach it like this:

Tell him rumours of his current off field behaviour make him too high a risk to invest in. We need our picks to be 10 year players.

Tell him that our aim is to be successful and win a flag, and that to do that we need the best players we can get.

Tell him we are interested because he is a good player and has the potential to be a great player; Roos wants to make him a great player.

We can match his money requirements, or even exceed slightly, on the following conditions:

-We can draft him in the PSD, pick 2

-We can trade with Richmond for our 3rd(?) round pick or player we are prepared to lose.

-Two year deal with option for third negotiated of he is interested

This is because a) currently he is to risky to use pick 2 on, but more importantly, b) if he wants finals and flag as well as money, we need to have those picks available to draft the best players to play around Martin which means our first two picks.

Give him some freedom back (if I was 21 and had a minder I'd want to push back at every opportunity too) but:

Require him to stay on the straight during key times (prep and recovery) and while at the club. Also stress that his playing and training is not impacted by outside activities. Require any contact with unsavoury types to be external of the club ie don't bring them to functions.

Get Roos to identify a mentor - Everitt, Hall, or other 'bad boy' who had a good career - may he may respond to this sort of character because they have credibility.

If he wants the money he will come, and if he goes off the rails, he cost nothing but cap space. A kid with good character won't walk to PSD unless their club is being unreasonable; they feel like they owe their clubs, and fair enough too. Martin isn't good character, we can pay to his selfishness and try and get him for nothing.

Edited September 17, 2013 by deanox

[ignition. 1,413]

Jack Watts, Cale Morton, Bryce Gibbs, Tom Scully, Jimmy Toumpas and Sam Blease What do they all have in common?

Daniel Rich, Patrick Dangerfield, Joel Selwood, Dustin Martin, Luke Shuey and Oliver Wines have in common?

Notice the difference?

Beautifully put!

Skills can be taught and perfected, but you can't teach someone to put their head over the ball or their body on line.

On field mongrel and a fearless attitude to win the contested ball can only come naturally (genetically), it can't be taught to that "classy", "skillful" or "Rolls Royce" of a player.