Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Whispering_Jack 28,013]

Essendon is adopting a risky strategy to say the least - Defiant Bombers say they'll clear names after AFL charges

Those who have been charged are entitled to seek to clear their names and while the decision by ASADA/AFL to issue an interim report without finalising the position of the players might have been designed to bring the matter to a swift resolution, it looks like backfiring at a heavy cost to all concerned.

Unless there's a change of heart, the Bombers might well still play in the finals this year but the future of the club remains at risk if the investigation into the supplements programme continues or the matter goes to court. The eyes of the sporting world will be on this case without a doubt.

And dare I ask but where are the politicians who were all over this when the story first came out on 5 February?

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Essendon is adopting a risky strategy to say the least - Defiant Bombers say they'll clear names after AFL charges

Those who have been charged are entitled to seek to clear their names and while the decision by ASADA/AFL to issue an interim report without finalising the position of the players might have been designed to bring the matter to a swift resolution, it looks like backfiring at a heavy cost to all concerned.

Unless there's a change of heart, the Bombers might well still play in the finals this year but the future of the club remains at risk if the investigation into the supplements programme continues or the matter goes to court. The eyes of the sporting world will be on this case without a doubt.

And dare I ask but where are the politicians who were all over this when the story first came out on 5 February?

Do we need them?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't really understand how the report didn't give evidence that any players were administered illegal drugs, yet the club and administrators were charged. How did they bring the game into disrepute if they didn't do anything illegal? Seems like Essendon have a very strong case if this goes to court, IMO.

Players have not been served with infraction notices even though ASADA believes they have enough evidence in the interim report.

ASADA are understood to have withheld their decision pending further evidence that might be available due to additional powers of interrogation.

The Essendon officials have been charged under AFL rules not ASADA rules for bringing the game into disrepute.

David Evans and Paul Little have both admitted the supplements program's were wrong.

Essendon's own commissioned Ziggy report paints a picture of a cowboy chemical operation without due oversight and governance.

They entered this program despite being clearly an often warned by the AFL about not being involved in illegal substances.

They have sacked a number of people involved with the highest executive scalp being the CEO because he did not know what was going on. Yet those that should have known remain intact in their jobs.

Essendon's interactions with Dank and their program has been the subject of an ACC report into illegal supplements in sport and has lead to an extensive ASADA investigation because Essendon don't know what went on in their club. Essendon's folly has derailed media attention away from the football and sidetracked AFL focus on more important issues for the game like equalisation etc.

And you think Essendon has enhanced the game this year? They may challenge the legality of the AFLs disrepute law in the courts but this won't take away the stain and smear of the most reckless and unprofessional conduct ever seen in a sporting club in Australia.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Think the MFC and Tanking and you get the idea

I don't think so. The Essendon situation is far more serious.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Essendon is adopting a risky strategy to say the least -

And dare I ask but where are the politicians who were all over this when the story first came out on 5 February?

Snouts in trough for an election on September 7.

There are no votes and lots of adverse media opportunities by becoming embroiled in this disaster.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Players have not been served with infraction notices even though ASADA believes they have enough evidence in the interim report.

ASADA are understood to have withheld their decision pending further evidence that might be available due to additional powers of interrogation.

The Essendon officials have been charged under AFL rules not ASADA rules for bringing the game into disrepute.

David Evans and Paul Little have both admitted the supplements program's were wrong.

Essendon's own commissioned Ziggy report paints a picture of a cowboy chemical operation without due oversight and governance.

They entered this program despite being clearly an often warned by the AFL about not being involved in illegal substances.

They have sacked a number of people involved with the highest executive scalp being the CEO because he did not know what was going on. Yet those that should have known remain intact in their jobs.

Essendon's interactions with Dank and their program has been the subject of an ACC report into illegal supplements in sport and has lead to an extensive ASADA investigation because Essendon don't know what went on in their club. Essendon's folly has derailed media attention away from the football and sidetracked AFL focus on more important issues for the game like equalisation etc.

And you think Essendon has enhanced the game this year? They may challenge the legality of the AFLs disrepute law in the courts but this won't take away the stain and smear of the most reckless and unprofessional conduct ever seen in a sporting club in Australia.

Plus we hate Essendon and want revenge for the 148 point loss to them this season.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Has essendon been charged as well or just individuals ?.draft picks ?points

The club and four individuals have been charged with Rule 1.6.

At this stage there has been no penalties - just charges. A hearing will be held on the 28/8

No players have been charged yet. Looking more and more like the May ASADA meeting with Essendon where they said the players will be fine might be true and upheld.

HOWEVER this is just due to the interim report and AFL charges. ASADA is yet to lay their charges.

[sue 8,463]

A question re Dank and ASADA's new powers:

If Dank confesses to feeding players illegal (sports-illegal) supplements, is he opening himself up to any criminal charge or to non-criminal legal action by players or whoever? Can he dump players in it without risk to himself?

[Flying Cloud 152]

Caro's line...

Despite the fact ASADA believes it has enough evidence to move on players, it is waiting to continue investigating Essendon's program under new legislative powers.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/anger-simmers-below-surface-as-charges-laid-20130813-2rumw.html#ixzz2btMba0im

From my reading it is either this, or, they know that Essendon had banned drugs, they know they were injecting players with a range of things, but they don't know exactly which players, if any, received which banned drug due to poor record keeping by Essendon.

They also want to find out how on earth Dank believes all was OK, and so want to interview him before handing down their findings.

[Flying Cloud 152]

A caller on the radio yesterday noted that AFL clubs know how many kicks, how many tackles, even how many push-ups - but Essendon doesn't know which drugs which given to which players.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

WADA will still charge more.

This is just stage 1.

Exactly,the AFL including its supporters are in their own bubble. Lance Armstrong is a bigger name in sport than ESSENDON ever will be. WADA don't care if our 18 team draw is affected.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

If WADA is in dispute with ASADA over the categorisation of AOD etc that could take years and be just too hard WYL. Even if WADA eventually wanted to penalise individuals The AFL and/or the Bombers could then argue against it in court, quite possibly successfuly, under "natural justice" alone given the delay.

Red you might wish to comment on this aspect if you're about?

Rusty the defence of he said, she said is crap. With so much at stake a simple phone call would have cleared everything up.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I can't help but feel the AFL is trying to be too cheeky about this whole situation.

They should either wait for ASADA and charge them properly or don't charge them at all.

It's a half arsed attempt to appeal to all parties and probably done them a disservice in that WADA will be keeping a closer eye on the penalties now in that no doubt they will be unhappy with the AFL's.

[binman 38,735]

Players have not been served with infraction notices even though ASADA believes they have enough evidence in the interim report.

ASADA are understood to have withheld their decision pending further evidence that might be available due to additional powers of interrogation.

The Essendon officials have been charged under AFL rules not ASADA rules for bringing the game into disrepute.

David Evans and Paul Little have both admitted the supplements program's were wrong.

Essendon's own commissioned Ziggy report paints a picture of a cowboy chemical operation without due oversight and governance.

They entered this program despite being clearly an often warned by the AFL about not being involved in illegal substances.

They have sacked a number of people involved with the highest executive scalp being the CEO because he did not know what was going on. Yet those that should have known remain intact in their jobs.

Essendon's interactions with Dank and their program has been the subject of an ACC report into illegal supplements in sport and has lead to an extensive ASADA investigation because Essendon don't know what went on in their club. Essendon's folly has derailed media attention away from the football and sidetracked AFL focus on more important issues for the game like equalisation etc.

And you think Essendon has enhanced the game this year? They may challenge the legality of the AFLs disrepute law in the courts but this won't take away the stain and smear of the most reckless and unprofessional conduct ever seen in a sporting club in Australia.

Spot on Rhino. Well said. I'd add that beggars belief that Jobe Watson or the club could say they have been vindicated. Nothing could be further from the truth. The players haven't been cleared of using banned substances. ASADA seem to have said there is not sufficient evidence to prove an individual player has. Big difference.

As i have said all along the legality of the drugs was a smoke screen. Essnendon have been running a campaign of players cleared equals no case to answer ( Good Times Grimes argument above is the same logic in a nutshell). The AFL could have charged the EFC for bringing game in disrepute on the basis of their own internal report, which as Rhino points out was absolutely damming (the public summary was damming enough, one can only wonder how more critical the full report was).

If EFC had not embarked on their crazy supplement program the game would not have had 6 months of negative exposure. Simple. it is puerile to the extreme to blame the AFL.

[CHAMP 347]

A caller on the radio yesterday noted that AFL clubs know how many kicks, how many tackles, even how many push-ups - but Essendon doesn't know which drugs which given to which players.

And you can bet that dietary records are available which are kept to the kilojoule and gram of unsaturated fat. It's just fair dinkum unbelievable that serious drug distribution across the player list was not similarly recorded. If it truly wasn't then clearly a great level of guilt is implicit. A panic-decision was made most likely to hide or expunge any record of drug usage and plead guilty instead to the lesser crimes of ineptitude and stupidity. Dank said the other day that he left full usage records on the EFC intranet. Today it is being claimed in media that Dank says he left hard-copy records at the club.

[DemonWA 3,468]

Looks to me that the AFL wanted to charge the bombers in some way, shape or form before the finals (as has been openly discussed for months now).

ASADA havent finished their investigation yet so they arent ready to belt them, so the only grounds that the AFL had to slap the bombers in on the catch all of "bringing the game into disrepute".

The real interesting apsects will come into play once the ASADA report is complete.

[Ungarie boy 233]

Just explaining this to a work colleague (non sports fan), and the discussion turned to an interesting point, which I would be happy to hear some views on.

Essentially if Essendon did(does) not know who was being injected with what and/or when; then how could this be seen as providing as safe working environment. For what if a player:

• was on some other medication (perhaps prescription drugs), or
• perhaps suffering another condition outside of the football world (such as anxiety) or
• be susceptible to something not currently obvious (allergies for example)

How could any diagnosis or follow up treatment then occur (in the advent of something going wrong) when records were not kept.

At the very least, a program such as this should have detailed records so that the effects (both good and bad) could be monitored, and acted upon - particularly for adverse reactions. For it would not be unreasonable to expect the possibility of an unknown substance reacting adversely with the large variety of human conditions and/or substances that may be consumed by a person. This would at a minimum necessitate sound and detailed record keeping.

From this point alone, Essendon as an employer must be in a very precarious position; when you give careful considerations to the real dangers (even potentially life threatening) the players were placed in, through this situation.

Imagine if a doctor /specialist was trying to determine the cause of ####, only to be informed by a player that he was taking this drug, suffering these symptoms and being injected weekly with an UNKNOWN substance!

[binman 38,735]

Just explaining this to a work colleague (non sports fan), and the discussion turned to an interesting point, which I would be happy to hear some views on.

Essentially if Essendon did(does) not know who was being injected with what and/or when; then how could this be seen as providing as safe working environment. For what if a player:

• was on some other medication (perhaps prescription drugs), or
• perhaps suffering another condition outside of the football world (such as anxiety) or
• be susceptible to something not currently obvious (allergies for example)

How could any diagnosis or follow up treatment then occur (in the advent of something going wrong) when records were not kept.

At the very least, a program such as this should have detailed records so that the effects (both good and bad) could be monitored, and acted upon - particularly for adverse reactions. For it would not be unreasonable to expect the possibility of an unknown substance reacting adversely with the large variety of human conditions and/or substances that may be consumed by a person. This would at a minimum necessitate sound and detailed record keeping.

From this point alone, Essendon as an employer must be in a very precarious position; when you give careful considerations to the real dangers (even potentially life threatening) the players were placed in, through this situation.

Imagine if a doctor /specialist was trying to determine the cause of ####, only to be informed by a player that he was taking this drug, suffering these symptoms and being injected weekly with an UNKNOWN substance!

Yes all very good points. Again it is ridiculous for EFC or Hird to claim no infraction notices to players equals vindication.

[Young Dee 1,303]

A question re Dank and ASADA's new powers:

If Dank confesses to feeding players illegal (sports-illegal) supplements, is he opening himself up to any criminal charge or to non-criminal legal action by players or whoever? Can he dump players in it without risk to himself?

I would offer that to him if it meant Essendon would sink

[jnrmac 19,128]

You realize global warming is real right?

Is it?

[rpfc 27,570]

Is it?

If you want to talk politics go to the general board. Don't start it here.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Just a point I'd like to be cleared up......With this new legislation.....As far as I read it Dank must present himself for interview by ASADA and produce all documents in relation to same.....

I don't see anywhere where it says that he must answer any questions put to him.....

Even a person charged with murder has the right to say nothing.....

Dank has stated that he has no documentation and left all paper work with Ess...

Can someone please inform me if this is correct or not

Thanks

[Cards13 9,117]

Just explaining this to a work colleague (non sports fan), and the discussion turned to an interesting point, which I would be happy to hear some views on.

Essentially if Essendon did(does) not know who was being injected with what and/or when; then how could this be seen as providing as safe working environment. For what if a player:

• was on some other medication (perhaps prescription drugs), or
• perhaps suffering another condition outside of the football world (such as anxiety) or
• be susceptible to something not currently obvious (allergies for example)

How could any diagnosis or follow up treatment then occur (in the advent of something going wrong) when records were not kept.

At the very least, a program such as this should have detailed records so that the effects (both good and bad) could be monitored, and acted upon - particularly for adverse reactions. For it would not be unreasonable to expect the possibility of an unknown substance reacting adversely with the large variety of human conditions and/or substances that may be consumed by a person. This would at a minimum necessitate sound and detailed record keeping.

From this point alone, Essendon as an employer must be in a very precarious position; when you give careful considerations to the real dangers (even potentially life threatening) the players were placed in, through this situation.

Imagine if a doctor /specialist was trying to determine the cause of ####, only to be informed by a player that he was taking this drug, suffering these symptoms and being injected weekly with an UNKNOWN substance!

One question not raised loudly as yet is why has Worksafe not investigated the allegedly unsafe work environment these employees had to work in?

[Flying Cloud 152]

One question not raised loudly as yet is why has Worksafe not investigated the allegedly unsafe work environment these employees had to work in?

Probably figure there is more than enough investigators in there already. Doesn't mean they won't.

[Flying Cloud 152]

Just a point I'd like to be cleared up......With this new legislation.....As far as I read it Dank must present himself for interview by ASADA and produce all documents in relation to same.....

I don't see anywhere where it says that he must answer any questions put to him.....

Even a person charged with murder has the right to say nothing.....

Dank has stated that he has no documentation and left all paper work with Ess...

Can someone please inform me if this is correct or not

Thanks

That's my understanding as well.