Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[beelzebub 22,703]

I am flabbergasted.

The more fight the players and their lawyers fight this, the worse the ban will be.

[Ash35 425]

The only example of which I'm aware is the WADA response to the deals ASADA cut with the NRL players. It came out as a bit of a lecture to ASADA suggesting that it was prepared to tolerate the laxity of the sanctions in that case but not to go there in future. WADA has a complex anti doping code to uphold and the impression I gained was that it expected support in that regard from this country's anti doping body. I got the impression that giving out three match penalties when athletes bound by the code elsewhere get 12 to 24 months isn't going to be tolerated.

Also the whole AOD-9604 thing.

Jobe Watson admitted to taking it, the football world had him hung, drawn and quartered because WADA said it was banned.

ASADA didn't have it on their banned list and thus have not pursued Essendon over it.

There was a few weeks of uncertainty there while ASADA and WADA sorted themselves out over it.

And the Cronulla thing as mentioned previously.

I would have thought they would be in complete agreement on everything.

I guess when you're a Bombers fan, you're always looking for little chinks in the ASADA armour.

But none of this really matters in relation to what Essendon have done and what is to come.

Nor should it impact on what happens to Essendon.

So all the cheerleaders for team ASADA on here have nothing to worry about.

[daisycutter 28,722]

Also the whole AOD-9604 thing.

Jobe Watson admitted to taking it, the football world had him hung, drawn and quartered because WADA said it was banned.

ASADA didn't have it on their banned list and thus have not pursued Essendon over it.

There was a few weeks of uncertainty there while ASADA and WADA sorted themselves out over it.

Ash I think you will find that AOD9604 was banned at the time the players allegedly took it

It was banned implicitly under the WADA S0 subsection

ASADA don't have a banned substance list, it is WADA who have a list

It appears they dropped pursuing AOD in preference for Thymosin because there was a somewhat grey area with AOD in that some misleading or incomplete advice may have been given by the ACC and possibly ASADA employees because it wasn't explicitly on the S1 to S6 subsections

But it was banned under the S0 provisions

[dpositive 1,602]

I thought it was banned as it was not prescriptively listed as approved ? Or something like that.

But surely now that there is a 360 page report the situation will be clear and players must know where they stand.

The fillibustering of Little and Hird can be seen to be a bit of delay to get the list in order until the ego took over A bit like Armstrong until the penny dropped that times have changed.

Still cant help but feel sorry for players that let themselves be injected so regularly and didnt seek a second opinion A lot of blind faith that goes some way to their performance also.

[beelzebub 22,703]

I guess when you're a Bombers fan, you're always looking for little chinks in the ASADA armour.

But none of this really matters in relation to what Essendon have done and what is to come.

Nor should it impact on what happens to Essendon.

So all the cheerleaders for team ASADA on here have nothing to worry about.

Ash...heres the thing that grates on most; it's the adoption of the 'victim' stance and that ASADA are the big bad meanies.

They're not. They are the ones charged with policing the adherence to the code locally . Someone steps out of line, or across it they will be brought to task.

Other athletes in other sports seemed to be in NO confusion as to what's allowed etc but supposedly Footballers are special ? These same said footballers who undergo hours upon hours of information and awareness regarding their responsibilities. The same footballers who invariably grew up in an age of Info tech...These same footballers who are playing dumb ??

There are the Drugs specifically mentioned on the Prohibitive List ( updated regularly ) and those that automatically fall under their S.O categories. whereby any drug not approved for human use automatically is covered by the S.O

Please , they are not the VICTIMS as is the want of your club ( irony to the nth) or the AFLPA would have them be, they are transgressors.

The Victims would in essence be the other athletes , those that do the right thing and observe the rules , should they seemingly be treated differently by happenstance if the Footballers get any leniency....any !!

Whatever 'happens' to Essendon was actually brought upon the club itself, by ...itself.

I think you'll find most people aren't cheerleaders for ASADA per se they are cheerleaders for Fairness and equal treatment.. ASADA is merely the messenger.

This cant be seen as some sort of aberration within an otherwise safe and above-board practice. it was a long drawn out systemic approach to rorting. Then to make matters worse the club , especially its icons , take the stance of 'oh woe is us". How dare anyone seek to call us to account. Even now the club doesnt get it ( or maybe it DOES ) by continuing to counsel and advise the players and basically co-opt them further by paying and overseeing their 'defense". The players can only be stupid to still provide themselves as cannon fodder in all of this.

The only ones I have the slightest semblance of sympathy for are the likes of yourself, but even that ends if you can't see what's been wrong in it's entirety.

The Club (yours ) and Specifically Hird were reminded of the legalities and banned use of various peptides by the AFL. They choose to be above all of that and still choose to concoct a ridiculous stance against being found out.

I truly hope Hird rots somewhere and is never allowed near a sporting venue , let alone organisation ever again. If the players can't wake up to the continued ruse then they are their own worst enemies.

[beelzebub 22,703]

I thought it was banned as it was not prescriptively listed as approved ? Or something like that.

But surely now that there is a 360 page report the situation will be clear and players must know where they stand.

The fillibustering of Little and Hird can be seen to be a bit of delay to get the list in order until the ego took over A bit like Armstrong until the penny dropped that times have changed.

Still cant help but feel sorry for players that let themselves be injected so regularly and didnt seek a second opinion A lot of blind faith that goes some way to their performance also.

yes as simple as that, who'd have thought

[sue 8,592]

You'll all enjoy this - Hird = Lindy Chamberlain:

http://thenewdaily.cmail1.com/t/i-l-euldrt-kyujaku-f/

Why is Hird being picked on it asks? Perhaps it was because he was head coach during the 'pharmaceutical experiment".

Edited October 21, 2014 by sue

[beelzebub 22,703]

You'll all enjoy this - Hird = Lindy Chamberlain:

http://thenewdaily.cmail1.com/t/i-l-euldrt-kyujaku-f/

Why is Hird being picked on it asks? Perhaps it was because he was head coach during the 'pharmaceutical experiment".

Yep this bloke sure knows a lot about Luhrmann...!!!!!! Fukk all about this....but lots about Baz !!

[biggestred 4,420]

I love that asada apparently hasnt provided any clarity.

Id say the players have about 350 pages of clarity each

[beelzebub 22,703]

I love that asada apparently hasnt provided any clarity.

Id say the players have about 350 pages of clarity each

funny thing is that the club could give them clarity.... " We injected you with ....... "

[daisycutter 28,722]

You'll all enjoy this - Hird = Lindy Chamberlain:

http://thenewdaily.cmail1.com/t/i-l-euldrt-kyujaku-f/

Why is Hird being picked on it asks? Perhaps it was because he was head coach during the 'pharmaceutical experiment".

Next he will be referred to as victoria's dreyfus - lol

[Bitter but optimistic 21,569]

Next he will be referred to as victoria's dreyfus - lol

Perhaps he'll get a nice holiday on a quiet (but sadly remote) island.

[daisycutter 28,722]

Perhaps he'll get a nice holiday on a quiet (but sadly remote) island.

more likely exiled to romsey, bbo

on second thoughts f log can have him in wa? after all he has plenty of spare toilets

[chookrat 3,849]

You'll all enjoy this - Hird = Lindy Chamberlain:

http://thenewdaily.cmail1.com/t/i-l-euldrt-kyujaku-f/

Why is Hird being picked on it asks? Perhaps it was because he was head coach during the 'pharmaceutical experiment".

Lol

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

Also the whole AOD-9604 thing.

Jobe Watson admitted to taking it, the football world had him hung, drawn and quartered because WADA said it was banned.

ASADA didn't have it on their banned list and thus have not pursued Essendon over it.

There was a few weeks of uncertainty there while ASADA and WADA sorted themselves out over it.

And the Cronulla thing as mentioned previously.

I would have thought they would be in complete agreement on everything.

I guess when you're a Bombers fan, you're always looking for little chinks in the ASADA armour.

But none of this really matters in relation to what Essendon have done and what is to come.

Nor should it impact on what happens to Essendon.

So all the cheerleaders for team ASADA on here have nothing to worry about.

Ash, it's not clear yet what WADA's position is over McDevitt's decision not to go down the AOD9604 path. Since there's been no listing of players on the register of findings, no infraction notices and no deals to be ratified yet, we really don't know how WADA will react to the AOD9604 thing. Whilst it didn't object or appeal over the NRL deals, there is no certainty that it won't take the AOD9604 matter to CAS if there is evidence available that the drug was administered to players.

In any event, I wouldn't be hanging my hat on that supposed "chink" because it's what probably broke the case against Essendon in the first place. Dank was too smart by half and thought he had found a way around the WADA Code by his querying of the status of AOD9604. He would have gotten away with TB4 as well but he stuffed it up by not understanding that TB4 is S2 and not S0.

In the eyes of most people, the smugness of Jobe's admission of the ingestion of an S0 peptide ain't a good look and will possibly not help his cause in the long run.

Nor will, I suspect, the current argy bargy about the players' lawyers advising them not to even consider making deals at this stage.

They really can't have their cakes and eat them and by that I mean that if they're prepared to have the cases tested in the appropriate tribunal (which is their right) they can't turn around much later and try to claim discounts because they supposedly co-operated or, in view of Job's boasts about ingesting an S0 peptide that's banned; how on earth can the no significant fault line be seriously argued?

I suspect the players are in WADA's gunsights. They need to very well-advised as to the steps they take next.

[bing181 8,355]

So all the cheerleaders for team ASADA on here have nothing to worry about.

Statements like that do nothing to reinforce your argument, or even help establish one. Quite the reverse.

[bing181 8,355]

It appears they dropped pursuing AOD in preference for Thymosin because there was a somewhat grey area with AOD in that some misleading or incomplete advice may have been given by the ACC and possibly ASADA employees because it wasn't explicitly on the S1 to S6 subsections

But it was banned under the S0 provisions

Agreed. But I don't believe it had much to do with misinformation or confusion, simply that:

- there have been very few S0 prosecutions. On the other hand, Thymosin Beta 4 is clearly banned under S2.

- ASADA must feel that they have a stronger (= easier to prove) case and evidence in regards to the use of TB4 at Essendon.

Without the full facts behind ASADA's decisions, Essendon fans are simply deluding themselves if they think the non-prosecution of the AOD case shows some kind of incompetence or confusion on ASADA's behalf. It would be an unwise path to take, just as it was in regards to the court case re the legality of the whole investigation.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I love that asada apparently hasnt provided any clarity.

Id say the players have about 350 pages of clarity each

But they are Essendon so it does not count if they disagree with it.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Also the whole AOD-9604 thing.

Jobe Watson admitted to taking it, the football world had him hung, drawn and quartered because WADA said it was banned.

ASADA didn't have it on their banned list and thus have not pursued Essendon over it.

There was a few weeks of uncertainty there while ASADA and WADA sorted themselves out over it.

And the Cronulla thing as mentioned previously.

I would have thought they would be in complete agreement on everything.

I guess when you're a Bombers fan, you're always looking for little chinks in the ASADA armour.

But none of this really matters in relation to what Essendon have done and what is to come.

Nor should it impact on what happens to Essendon.

So all the cheerleaders for team ASADA on here have nothing to worry about.

They have a Team?

How does one join it?

[Willmoy1947 3,847]

One thing that is not clear at this stage is whether or not parents and spouses etc are going to be prepared to "stick fat" as the horrible expression goes or not.

In fact at this juncture I am a bit surprised by the silence from that sphere of this sorry saga.

They would have every reason now with evidence in front of them to be abhorred and even vengeful...

[beelzebub 22,703]

One thing that is not clear at this stage is whether or not parents and spouses etc are going to be prepared to "stick fat" as the horrible expression goes or not.

In fact at this juncture I am a bit surprised by the silence from that sphere of this sorry saga.

They would have every reason now with evidence in front of them to be abhorred and even vengeful...

This is one aspect I really dont get. Why on earth give the club get out of jail cards when your own kids are the lab-rats..

I mean ffs. Grow some parents

[FarNorthernD 5,848]

One thing that is not clear at this stage is whether or not parents and spouses etc are going to be prepared to "stick fat" as the horrible expression goes or not.

In fact at this juncture I am a bit surprised by the silence from that sphere of this sorry saga.

They would have every reason now with evidence in front of them to be abhorred and even vengeful...

And to give them their due they have performed admirably on the field against the odds. I shudder to think how our Melbourne players would have gone under the same pressure

[hoopla 418]

And to give them their due they have performed admirably on the field against the odds....

Got to agree with that......n the field they have worked as a team

Doesn't the old saying "as thick as thieves" pick on the bond that develops between criminals as they plot and scheme to avoid being caught ?

[Ash35 425]

In any event, I wouldn't be hanging my hat on that supposed "chink" because it's what probably broke the case against Essendon in the first place. Dank was too smart by half and thought he had found a way around the WADA Code by his querying of the status of AOD9604. He would have gotten away with TB4 as well but he stuffed it up by not understanding that TB4 is S2 and not S0.

In the eyes of most people, the smugness of Jobe's admission of the ingestion of an S0 peptide ain't a good look and will possibly not help his cause in the long run.

Nor will, I suspect, the current argy bargy about the players' lawyers advising them not to even consider making deals at this stage.

They really can't have their cakes and eat them and by that I mean that if they're prepared to have the cases tested in the appropriate tribunal (which is their right) they can't turn around much later and try to claim discounts because they supposedly co-operated or, in view of Job's boasts about ingesting an S0 peptide that's banned; how on earth can the no significant fault line be seriously argued?

"Smugness" and "boasting"?

C'mon Jack, really have a good look at Jobes interview.

He was asked the question and he answered it, probably too honestly for his own good.

I'm coping a lot on here, and most of it is fine, but I won't cop that you think Jobe was smug with his admission.

You're better than that.

But your other points are valid, and I think people here are misreading what I am saying.

I am in complete agreement that any minor confusions between ASADA and WADA along the way should in no way lessen any impact on what Essendon has done and what will come of this.

The "Chinks in the armour" comment was just giving you guys an insight into what it's like to be an Essendon person at the moment.

I don't think the WADA/ASADA stuff is a chink, but as supporters, and I guess as a club, we are always looking for something.

And bing181, I've long stopped trying to "reinforce my argument" on here a week ago. No point. You guys have your minds made up, and rightly so.

I come here, have a bit of a chat about it, no real biggie for me.

I read that people here want my club to become bankrupt, kicked out of the comp forever, we are called Essendrugs, everyone is dancing on our graves and we aren't even in the ground yet, and you guys are loving it. And please don't deny it.

But honestly mate, it's fine. I have a pretty thick skin these days. This is a Melbourne FC forum.

I'm not here looking for sympathy or an argument.

So if a little light hearted comment about cheerleaders for team ASADA bothers you, I'm sorry.

[beelzebub 22,703]

ASADA may call on Shane Charter and Nima Alavi at AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal

"CONVICTED drug trafficker Shane Charter and compound pharmacist Nima Alavi will likely be asked to give evidence in person at any AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal hearing of charges against current and former Essendon players."