Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[beelzebub 23,249]

BB I think you have used most of the metaphors available here. But the River reference is that Merde Creek?

a double play there...was leveraging the River Card also

[jnrmac 19,931]

I am sure the bloke has had a strategy from day one and worked behind the scenes even when Evans was in the chair to that end. You dont become a billionaire by being stupid.

Believe me, they can all be blinded by their own reflection. Remember Kerry Stokes spent $200m+ on litigation because he thought he was wronged in the AFL broadcasting deal.

Wealth has nothing to do with being right.

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

Believe me, they can all be blinded by their own reflection. Remember Kerry Stokes spent $200m+ on litigation because he thought he was wronged in the AFL broadcasting deal.

Wealth has nothing to do with being right.

I dont hink he is right but despite the ranting and raving and the rubbish he is peddling to the players and parents I dont think he is reacting emotionally. I think he thinks he has a realistic chance in the Federal Court and I think the matter is not a forgone conclusion in favour of ASADA. I think he has a history of beng a hard headed businessman and is well versed in using the legal system to get what he wants. I also think that the actions of Hird and Little have been geared towards the current court action from early in the saga. With there media lap-dogs they almost created the evidence they are now using. It was always the preference of Hird and Little to end up in court and they only signed off on the previous penaties under duress and without any contrition hoping but not realy believing that would be the end of it.

[beelzebub 23,249]

I am actually very surprised theyd want to be anywhere near a court tbh.

[Ted Lasso 18,913]

BD, are there clear guidelines as to what point the investigation becomes unlawful

[beelzebub 23,249]

BD, are there clear guidelines as to what point the investigation becomes unlawful

Interesting idea this.

Much is made of supposed legality regarding the investigations. In reality its whether or not it fell within the guidelines and scope as agreed to by all parties when they sign on to the WADA code.

They have all but carte blanch withiin reason ( theirs...lol ) to do what ever it takes.... ooooooh.... thats karma biting baby !!!

[Ted Lasso 18,913]

That's what im thinking BB, surely ASADA would have a very clear understanding of what they can do and would be extremely careful not to let a fish this big get off the hook so to speak

I find it hard to believe conducting a joint investigation with the relevant sporting organisation would be outside the powers of ASADA, I think alot of it is that the bombers are simply desperate,to the point where their innocence and integrity is no longer a priority

[dpositive 1,662]

I reckon Little Hird and the Essendon players all genuinely believe they are innocent because they took a drug to make them play better which was the same as the drugs that all other AFL clubs use.

AFl and AD particularly thought that playing ball with ASADA and applying ther own penalties would make this issue go away.

Lance Armstrong genuinely believed that it was ok to take drugs to make him perform better which was the same as the drugs that al cyclists took. LAnce was ok while UCI (French controllers of the sport) were on side . Lance got greedy and the amounts he was contracted for winning the tour de france became unsustainable. The American Cycling body took on the UCI with WADA backing and eventually won.

The big money talks.

AFL (AD) thouht that they controlled everything but the money of the sponsors of a tainted sport may well have the last word backed by ASADA.

This is a compelling and fascinating story.

I just hope that we do get public disclosure in a transparent and non manipulated or biased forum.

[bing181 9,117]

LAnce was ok while UCI (French controllers of the sport) were on side . Lance got greedy and the amounts he was contracted for winning the tour de france became unsustainable. The American Cycling body took on the UCI with WADA backing and eventually won.

In the interests of accuracy: UCI is the international governing body for cycling, it's not a French organisation, and is based in Switzerland, near Montreux. The national French body is the FFC (Fédération Française de Cyclisme).

The body that "took on" the UCI was the USADA, the American equivalent of ASADA, not the national American cycling body (USA Cycling).

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Ok The Hsun on a bye weekend with nothing to write about.

That explains it. Nowhere like D'Land to take something like this and run a million kms with it!

DL 101

[Red and Bluebeard 2,080]

probably something to do with einstein's theory of relativity redleg, and i still struggle with that

robbo probably topped his class in astrophysics

I doubt that very much, DC. Relativity is conceptually simple and mathematically sophisticated, and follows logically from certain assumptions that seem to fit the way the universe works. You couldn't make up half of this Essendon [censored] if you tried. I think it has more in common with Astroturf than astrophysics ...

[beelzebub 23,249]

I doubt that very much, DC. Relativity is conceptually simple and mathematically sophisticated, and follows logically from certain assumptions that seem to fit the way the universe works. You couldn't make up half of this Essendon [censored] if you tried. I think it has more in common with Astroturf than astrophysics ...

Funny...I had the notion that Little the EFC and Hird would soon be superimposed upon a black hole....relatively speaking

[Whispering_Jack 29,339]

More on that 100m race in Switzerland at the weekend -

Justin Gatlin and Tyson Gay may be running fast but they are still making dopes of us all

This is what's happened to athletics and what is happening to our game.

[Ted Lasso 18,913]

WJ, do you know where the boundaries are drawn on ASADA's power? I am curious as to how they could have possible acted outside their guidelines?

[Red and Bluebeard 2,080]

Funny...I had the notion that Little the EFC and Hird would soon be superimposed upon a black hole....relatively speaking

Red dwarf to black hole with implosions everywhere .. .sounds likely!

[Whispering_Jack 29,339]

WJ, do you know where the boundaries are drawn on ASADA's power? I am curious as to how they could have possible acted outside their guidelines?

My reading of the Act which established ASADA is that ASADA is permitted to act in concert with the various bodies that regulate each individual sport. Essendon maintains however, that the wording of the legislation is restrictive and further, by ASADA and the AFL acting in a manner contrary to the way in which the legislation allows, ASADA has exceeded the powers given to it.

Bearing in mind, I haven't seen the evidence put forward to support that proposition, I still can't see that there's enough of that from what I've read about the case and further, I think the legislation must be given a broad interpretation anyway to allow its intended effect to be achieved. I think therefore, there is little (no pun intended) chance that a pragmatic judge like Middleton J will accept that the entire investigation (including several months of evidence gathering by ASADA acting on its own) should be wiped out altogether.

It has to be remembered that the investigation insofar as it involved the AFL, related to issues of governance which EFC and Hird did not challenge and in fact, by consent, they accepted its outcome. While that of itself cannot knock out their case for ultra vires, I reckon it's going to have some weight, particularly if the judges BS meter is fully functioning when he brings down his decision.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

More on that 100m race in Switzerland at the weekend -Justin Gatlin and Tyson [censored] may be running fast but they are still making dopes of us all

This is what's happened to athletics and what is happening to our game.

And Alberto Contador, a bloke who has lost a Tour de France win a few years ago after being found guilty of doping, is one of the favourites for this years event.

[Whispering_Jack 29,339]

And Alberto Contador, a bloke who has lost a Tour de France win a few years ago after being found guilty of doping, is one of the favourites for this years event.

Yes, but Contador had some grounds for thinking he was stiff to get whacked with a sanction and, in any event, road cycling has been considered unclean for enough years as to not matter in the calculations of many of the sporting public.

[Jara 1,153]

Speaking as a simple-minded onlooker, I've never understood the basis of the Bombers' challenge. They're alleging some kind of collusion/conspiracy between ASADA and the AFL. How on earth could ASADA carry out any sort of investigation if they didn't work with the sport's governing body?

But then again, I couldn't even see what grounds they had for objecting to Dr Harcourts comments either; all he said was the same as every body who doesn't barrack for the Bombers was saying anyway. Not much worse, in fact, than their own Ziggy had already said.

Black day for our game if they come away unscathed.

[beelzebub 23,249]

Speaking as a simple-minded onlooker, I've never understood the basis of the Bombers' challenge. They're alleging some kind of collusion/conspiracy between ASADA and the AFL. How on earth could ASADA carry out any sort of investigation if they didn't work with the sport's governing body?

But then again, I couldn't even see what grounds they had for objecting to Dr Harcourts comments either; all he said was the same as every body who doesn't barrack for the Bombers was saying anyway. Not much worse, in fact, than their own Ziggy had already said.

Black day for our game if they come away unscathed.

Yours is simple for sure..as an appreciation..Its also very clear.

Theres not much more to it really

[rumpole 514]

Interesting article in the Age quoting Dean Robinson's lawyer (Galbally) - Former Essendon fitness coach Dean Robinson could take AFL, ASADA to court

I dislike it intensely when legal counsel try to fight their clients' cases in the media. Smells of desperation to me .

[rumpole 514]

Word out that Caro is going to deliver Essendon an almighty whack in tomorrow's Age.

[beelzebub 23,249]

I dislike it intensely when legal counsel try to fight their clients' cases in the media. Smells of desperation to me .

and yet theyd be the first to argue its the illegitimate forum to do such !!

[DeeGee 174]

I've been a long-time reader of this thread with great interest. I generally take the view that the media usually overreacts with stories - things usually aren't as good or as bad as made out.

Therefore, I have been somewhat dubious about essendon being as guilty as made out in the Age.

However, the last few weeks of media posturing by Essendon have made me realize they have cheated in a big way and NEED to be held to account. They know it, most of the public know it, AFL knows it and ASADA knows it. They don't want to go down without large casualties. I still find it hard to believe that Essendon are getting a relatively good ride from the media. If half of what we hear is true they should be copping it.

Remember, they weren't any good in 2011, then in 2012 they won the first 10 (I think) games in a row.

I re-read the AFL charge sheet from last year last night and it is scary what they did.

Although messy, they need a huge penalty, as a deterrent if nothing else.

[beelzebub 23,249]

I've been a long-time reader of this thread with great interest. I generally take the view that the media usually overreacts with stories - things usually aren't as good or as bad as made out.

Therefore, I have been somewhat dubious about essendon being as guilty as made out in the Age.

However, the last few weeks of media posturing by Essendon have made me realize they have cheated in a big way and NEED to be held to account. They know it, most of the public know it, AFL knows it and ASADA knows it. They don't want to go down without large casualties. I still find it hard to believe that Essendon are getting a relatively good ride from the media. If half of what we hear is true they should be copping it.

Remember, they weren't any good in 2011, then in 2012 they won the first 10 (I think) games in a row.

I re-read the AFL charge sheet from last year last night and it is scary what they did.

Although messy, they need a huge penalty, as a deterrent if nothing else.

Welcome.