POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[rjay 23,936]

We need to mark Brown's name down and someone - i do not care who - needs to make sure that he is not able to walk off the field next time we play.

Sometimes you need someone who will take a couple of weeks for the team.

[titan_uranus 22,538]

I haven't been able to see all of the game, which is a bit disappointing given I've sat through some much worse performances.

On the failure to run over the top of them - yes, they were down to one on the bench. But look at our draw. This was our second consecutive interstate game. It was our third game in four weeks outside of Melbourne. The past month has included a trip to Geelong in the wet and a trip to Brisbane. That's a really tough 5 week period for any club, let alone one as terrible as ours with a fitness base as low as ours. So to not steamroll them, rotations or no rotations, doesn't surprise me too much, nor disappoint me.

What disappoints me is the fact that we went inside 50 more than them, had more of the ball than them, had more scoring shots than them, but couldn't get it done. That's not a common position for us, so in that regard it's something of a positive, but at the same time as a football match, you'd expect to win games like this. Lessons to learn for our players.

Those slamming Byrnes need to read Nasher's post a few pages back. Byrnes, in general over his career, is an accurate kick, and has kicked far more goals than behinds (both in 2013 and in his career). Last night was an exception, not the norm. He had 7 shots on goal. Melbourne players outside of Mitch Clark don't usually do that. Yes, some of his misses were poor, but given that our disposal team-wide wasn't great, let's at least acknowledge that he was able to create scoring opportunities.

Garland continues to develop into an A-grader, as does N Jones. Spencer and Gawn have shown this year that they promise to be a really competitive ruck duo. Our forward line is crying out for a marking target, so when Clark, Dawes, Hogan and/or Howe line up there next year, that aspect of our failings will be rectified.

Not sure why we keep playing Davey, he's adding very little. Nicholson also should be the first one dropped. McKenzie keeps getting a game while he keeps shutting players out, but his kicking is still a problem.

Those whinging about Watts wanting to see who the new coach is should look to last night as explanation. Watts is a forward and should be played there. It's ridiculous how Craig kept him back whilst Davis floundered up forward. How can you blame Watts for wanting to know what his future holds when he's being played out of position on a weekly basis?

[rpfc 27,545]

I'm glad we have graduated to the point where shooting for goal is THE issue that we have battled which shows our ineptitude...

Our issue as a club is that we throw up a decent showing against a good midfield like last night and come away with an attitude of self-satisfaction.

The players should take some inputs from that display - confidence, belief, trust in their teammates to do a job (looking in your direction Jordie) but no output - you didn't win.

'Plenty to take to next week but nothing gained' is where their heads should be.

Edited August 11, 2013 by rpfc

[Hannibal 5,814]

Those whinging about Watts wanting to see who the new coach is should look to last night as explanation. Watts is a forward and should be played there. It's ridiculous how Craig kept him back whilst Davis floundered up forward. How can you blame Watts for wanting to know what his future holds when he's being played out of position on a weekly basis?

Most supporters realise that Watts' best position is as a Gunston type forward.

He's still as soft as butter. Embarrassingly so.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Pates 9,537]

I haven't been able to see all of the game, which is a bit disappointing given I've sat through some much worse performances.

On the failure to run over the top of them - yes, they were down to one on the bench. But look at our draw. This was our second consecutive interstate game. It was our third game in four weeks outside of Melbourne. The past month has included a trip to Geelong in the wet and a trip to Brisbane. That's a really tough 5 week period for any club, let alone one as terrible as ours with a fitness base as low as ours. So to not steamroll them, rotations or no rotations, doesn't surprise me too much, nor disappoint me.

What disappoints me is the fact that we went inside 50 more than them, had more of the ball than them, had more scoring shots than them, but couldn't get it done. That's not a common position for us, so in that regard it's something of a positive, but at the same time as a football match, you'd expect to win games like this. Lessons to learn for our players.

Those slamming Byrnes need to read Nasher's post a few pages back. Byrnes, in general over his career, is an accurate kick, and has kicked far more goals than behinds (both in 2013 and in his career). Last night was an exception, not the norm. He had 7 shots on goal. Melbourne players outside of Mitch Clark don't usually do that. Yes, some of his misses were poor, but given that our disposal team-wide wasn't great, let's at least acknowledge that he was able to create scoring opportunities.

Garland continues to develop into an A-grader, as does N Jones. Spencer and Gawn have shown this year that they promise to be a really competitive ruck duo. Our forward line is crying out for a marking target, so when Clark, Dawes, Hogan and/or Howe line up there next year, that aspect of our failings will be rectified.

Not sure why we keep playing Davey, he's adding very little. Nicholson also should be the first one dropped. McKenzie keeps getting a game while he keeps shutting players out, but his kicking is still a problem.

Those whinging about Watts wanting to see who the new coach is should look to last night as explanation. Watts is a forward and should be played there. It's ridiculous how Craig kept him back whilst Davis floundered up forward. How can you blame Watts for wanting to know what his future holds when he's being played out of position on a weekly basis?

Some good summation considering you haven't seen the game yet. I will say this for putting Watts back, it changed that game when Craig did it in the second quarter and again in the third quarter, but he needed to be forward when the game was I'm the balance.

[dees189227 10,875]

How is it since we have beaten the dogs we have got worse and they have got better.

[mjt 640]

I'm glad we have graduated to the point where shooting for goal is THE issue that we have battled which shows our ineptitude...

Our issue as a club is that we throw up a decent showing against a good midfield like last night and come away with an attitude of self-satisfaction.

The players should take some inputs from that display - confidence, belief, trust in their teammates to do a job (looking in your direction Jordie) but no output - you didn't win.

'Plenty to take to next week but nothing gained' is where their heads should be.

I can't wait for next week and get to the G, they went toe to toe with a pretty good engine last night but its ashame Toumpas wasn't part of it.

[Slartibartfast 15,859]

McKenzie keeps getting a game while he keeps shutting players out, but his kicking is still a problem.

Those whinging about Watts wanting to see who the new coach is should look to last night as explanation. Watts is a forward and should be played there. It's ridiculous how Craig kept him back whilst Davis floundered up forward. How can you blame Watts for wanting to know what his future holds when he's being played out of position on a weekly basis?

I suggest you watch Neil Craig's presser where he praises Davis's ability to compete in the air. Watts doesn't do this.

Watts is not a key forward and those that are disappointed about this should just get over it. We actually don't want him to be a key forward given our list. When GC looked good it was Watts who held them up. Take him away from the back line last night and we'd have been beaten badly. Soft as butter? Wow. He just kept getting the ball and usually used it pretty well.

I laugh when I see the knocks on McKenzie and his kicking. There is hardly a voice of support for him on this site that I've noticed but he comes back in and suddenly our stoppage work is much better. He and Viney are very important because when they are there they offer Jones some support.

McKenzie's goal from outside 50 showed he can kick. McKenzie often gets the ball in contested situations in the company of the oppositions best mid. That's why he sometimes misses targets. He's not a great kick but he's much better than he's given credit for and he's an important part of our team.

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

Most supporters realise that Watts' best position is as a Gunston type forward.

He's still as soft as butter. Embarrassingly so.

.

Give it a rest. You're boring me.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Interesting to see every one praising Spencer when the vast majority had him as the worst player in the competition not that long back; perhaps some humble pie for a few?

Don't worry Rob........If he puts in a bad one......all the experts on here will be trading him , delisting him or sacking him......It's the way it works on here.....

[Scipio 5,868]

Most supporters realise that Watts' best position is as a Gunston type forward.

He's still as soft as butter. Embarrassingly so.

Not often I agree with you but this is right.

Watts skill and execution are first class as someone mentioned however his application and appetite for the contest are rubbish. Unless he can consistently begin to apply himself he should be traded, at the right price.

[Slartibartfast 15,859]

Not often I agree with you but this is right.

Watts skill and execution are first class as someone mentioned however his application and appetite for the contest are rubbish. Unless he can consistently begin to apply himself he should be traded, at the right price.

His application is first class, that's why he keeps getting the ball.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Watts is not a key forward and those that are disappointed about this should just get over it. We actually don't want him to be a key forward given our list. When GC looked good it was Watts who held them up. Take him away from the back line last night and we'd have been beaten badly. Soft as butter? Wow. He just kept getting the ball and usually used it pretty well.

I suppose we all see what we want to see. You enjoy the smart decisions and classy ball use and I see a player that picks and chooses the contests he enters.

I see a player that will never influence a cutthroat final. I see a player that gets brushed aside in a red hot cauldron. If you can't perform in finals you're as useful as a cold pie.

Pass the sauce.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Not often I agree with you ...

You're rarely right.

[beelzebub 22,238]

Byrnes is a total waste of space for us. Every possession is a turnover. Every shot at goal is a miss. 1.5 and several other misses that went out. I just don't get why he gets a game.

If Craig wanted to win the game then he has no chance of getting the coaching gig. To leave Watts behind the ball especially in the last quarter when the Suns were out on their feet was a joke. He should have been up forward. He had already kicked two and was the only one likely to score. If anything Davis could have played further up the ground. Why do you play defensive when you are a few goals behind and there is about 12 minutes to play. I thought the idea was to win the game.

I know one thing for sure, we are the worst skilled side in the AFL and probably the dumbest. The turnovers and missed set shots, gifted the game to the Suns tonight.

I am also at a loss to understand the Watts positioning. Craig is luaded by some for game day nous but i fail to see it often. Again he seemed to be defending a losing position instead of playing positive .Doesn't guarantee a win playing Jack forward but all but did playing him back. esp obviously a day with who up front ?

Sorry Neil i just dont get you mate

[titan_uranus 22,538]

I suggest you watch Neil Craig's presser where he praises Davis's ability to compete in the air. Watts doesn't do this.

Watts is not a key forward and those that are disappointed about this should just get over it. We actually don't want him to be a key forward given our list. When GC looked good it was Watts who held them up. Take him away from the back line last night and we'd have been beaten badly. Soft as butter? Wow. He just kept getting the ball and usually used it pretty well.

I laugh when I see the knocks on McKenzie and his kicking. There is hardly a voice of support for him on this site that I've noticed but he comes back in and suddenly our stoppage work is much better. He and Viney are very important because when they are there they offer Jones some support.

McKenzie's goal from outside 50 showed he can kick. McKenzie often gets the ball in contested situations in the company of the oppositions best mid. That's why he sometimes misses targets. He's not a great kick but he's much better than he's given credit for and he's an important part of our team.

You're overstating Davis' ability to compete in the air. It's not like he played like Mitch Clark. Watts is just as competitive in the air as Davis was. If Watts lacks competitiveness, it's not in the air it's on the ground.

Watts is not a key forward in the sense of being someone like Dawes, Clark or Hogan. But, as B-H alluded to, he is in the mould of a Gunston-type forward.

I'm not saying Watts doesn't add value in defence, though there are some games where's been largely ineffectual down there. What I think, though, is that in the long term Watts is best suited to playing as the third tall in the forward line, pushing up past half forward at times.

As for McKenzie, one kick doesn't make a player. On the whole, McKenzie's kicking is poor, he misses targets too often and doesn't usually have penetration (yes, he made 50 yesterday, but if that wasn't a surprise to you, then you don't watch McKenzie enough). I'm rapt with his performance in shutting down Ablett, and as I said, if he is continually able to tag a midfielder out of a game, then he stays in the side no matter how he kicks. He wasn't doing that at the start of the year though, and when he doesn't tag someone effectively, he offers almost nothing.

Edited August 11, 2013 by titan_uranus

[McQueen 17,864]

His skill and execution are first class.

If we can build a strong midfield in the next couple of years Watts will win games off his own boot regularly.

I'm annoyed that Neeld traded for Dawes with the mindset that Watts will play as a defender. I see so much more potential in Watts as that lead up forward. It's only his ability to make a tackle stick that frustrates me at the moment. Even his contested pack marking has improved out of sight since given the role back up forward.

[Young Dee 1,303]

I'm annoyed that Neeld traded for Dawes with the mindset that Watts will play as a defender. I see so much more potential in Watts as that lead up forward. It's only his ability to make a tackle stick that frustrates me at the moment. Even his contested pack marking has improved out of sight since given the role back up forward.

Dawes was recruited as a full forward. Watts will never be a full forward - he is more of a forward flank or wing man.

Hopefully in years to come Watts will be able to be a high forward who drifts up the ground (wing) and can take some pack marks, use his pace and nail a 50m pass to a leading Clark, Dawes, Hogan or Fitzy.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Young Dee

[Return to Glory 7,749]

You're rarely right.

Unlike you, who is always right. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

It's probably your self effacing nature.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Return to Glory

[Scipio 5,868]

You're rarely right.

You rarely display any kind of social skills. Maybe you should get out one day Benjamin and experience the world outside, might teach you some humility.

[Scipio 5,868]

His application is first class, that's why he keeps getting the ball.

Don't think so, he's lazy. He knows where to run because he has a very good football brain but doesn't work hard enough. I think we all know that he could be a gun if he lifted his work rate and intensity.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You rarely display any kind of social skills. Maybe you should get out one day Benjamin and experience the world outside, might teach you some humility.

Says the guy who has to preface his remark by "I usually don't agree with you, but".

I rarely agree with the dolts that frequent this site, but if I do, I don't preface it with an insult.

And no, I don't use social skills with make believe personas on the internet. It's a waste of my time.

[Return to Glory 7,749]

Says the guy who has to preface his remark by "I usually don't agree with you, but".

I rarely agree with the dolts that frequent this site, but if I do, I don't preface it with an insult.

And no, I don't use social skills with make believe personas on the internet. It's a waste of my time.

...which, if you are not aware Django, is extremely valuable.

[McQueen 17,864]

Dawes was recruited as a full forward. Watts will never be a full forward - he is more of a forward flank or wing man.

Hopefully in years to come Watts will be able to be a high forward who drifts up the ground (wing) and can take some pack marks, use his pace and nail a 50m pass to a leading Clark, Dawes, Hogan or Fitzy.

Recent weeks would suggest otherwise.

[rjay 23,936]

You're overstating Davis' ability to compete in the air. It's not like he played like Mitch Clark. Watts is just as competitive in the air as Davis was. If Watts lacks competitiveness, it's not in the air it's on the ground.

Davis lacks the skill of these other players but he does compete and hit the packs hard and bring the ball to ground. I think he did his job pretty well if that was his assignment. Watts can do a lot of things but he doesn't do this, Gunstan doesn't either by the way. They are both floaters and opportunists.

Edited August 11, 2013 by rjay