Give me a break Jumbo. Show me the big thighs on Gunston in either of these photos:

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=wT2M8OnEngc7DM:&imgrefurl=http://www.afl.com.au/gallery/2013-05-04/afl-2013-rd-06-adelaide-v-hawthorn&docid=Pdi2XsiP0YSTjM&imgurl=http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%252520Tenant/Media/Galleries/Matches/2013/AFL%2525202013%252520Rd%25252006%252520-%252520Adelaide%252520v%252520Hawthorn/286087_gp.jpg&w=438&h=620&ei=OAZJUr2LJsmslAWehYDYCw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:5,s:0,i:97&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=232&tbnw=183&start=0&ndsp=17&tx=107&ty=83

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=BijdqEqQJv-27M:&imgrefurl=http://www.fiveaa.com.au/audio_crows-2nd-round-draft-pick-jack-gunston_95325&docid=X4COrJ8lEw5cBM&imgurl=http://www.fiveaa.com.au/lib/images/audio/normal/crows-2nd-round-draft-pick-jack-gunston-99649.jpg&w=310&h=398&ei=OAZJUr2LJsmslAWehYDYCw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:9,s:0,i:109&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=232&tbnw=194&start=0&ndsp=17&tx=51&ty=34

Or Fyfe

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=crLttJ6vkoOSKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2011-07-27/nat-fyfe-contract-extension&docid=BNayjNNj2-i_0M&imgurl=http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/staticfile/AFL%252520Tenant/Invisible%252520Archive/Images/Static%252520Files/fremantle_images/2009_Promotion_Pics/fyfe-resigns246a.jpg&w=246&h=316&ei=LAdJUsWJFsfMkwXp2YCICw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:56,s:0,i:254&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=186&tbnw=143&start=42&ndsp=24&tx=32&ty=80

Look at this imposing build

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=6JDXstJoD6_j5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/nathan-fyfe-pick-20-2009-nd.656368/&docid=hAg3k9aaFnZydM&imgurl=http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/AFL%252520K-O/FYFE%252520Nat_draft_246_meeta.jpg&w=246&h=316&ei=LAdJUsWJFsfMkwXp2YCICw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:78&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=188&tbnw=143&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=82&ty=111

You are right it's about attitude, development, work ethic and footballing skills. It's not at all about how many kg's of muscle they carry when they are 18, just finished most of their growing, not even finished puberty and really shouldn't be doing any heavy weights training. Port Adelaide fitness guru Darren Burgess doesn't even let his first year draftees do weights. He builds up their fitness and core strength first and that seemed to go ok for Oli Wines, Jake Neade and Sam Colquhoun.

Very nice selective editing here...shame our recruiters had no idea how to interview for competitiveness and contested ball.

Okay....one more point on the 'skinny' debate and I'm done.

Gunston's build and Fyfe's build is no way like Gysbert's or Morton's - look at the size of their thighs, that allows them strength in the hips.

Secondly, Fyfe and Gunston are elite runners and extremely, extremely fit!

Thirdly, their attitude is one where they work hard to establish space and rarely get caught.

Morton and Gysberts? Pffft! Gimme a break!!

You're not helping your own point.

Attitude is not relevant to the debate as to build. They're all skinny players. Their attitudes are clearly different, but their bodies less so.

Also, if Morton is anything, anything at all, he's an elite runner. That was rarely in question when he was here.

Gunston and Fyfe definitely have different appetites for the contest and different attitudes towards how they play. They remain, however, skinny.

You're not helping your own point.

Attitude is not relevant to the debate as to build. They're all skinny players. Their attitudes are clearly different, but their bodies less so.

Also, if Morton is anything, anything at all, he's an elite runner. That was rarely in question when he was here.

Gunston and Fyfe definitely have different appetites for the contest and different attitudes towards how they play. They remain, however, skinny.

My point is strength through the core.

To me, Gunston and Fyfe are not skinny.

Further, Morton was an 'elite' runner by MFC standards, not Hawthorn/Freo/Geelong/Swans standards.

My point is strength through the core.

To me, Gunston and Fyfe are not skinny.

Further, Morton was an 'elite' runner by MFC standards, not Hawthorn/Freo/Geelong/Swans standards.

When Morton was playing U/18s he was considered an elite runner by everyone's standards. I still remember some recruiters believing he was well and truly good enough to be the first pick in the draft.

He finished up not being up to Hawthorn/Freo/Geelong etc standards due to his commitment and our poor development of him, but he was ALWAYS an elite runner.

I have no objection to giving pick 2 to the Pies if they want to trade for it. Not for Shaw though. Pendlebury would do the trick I would think.

I do like in the Mahony interview he has said that they have identified a few players in the league who they rate as being worth pick 2 and are going to see if anyone bites. Sounds like they have their limits pretty well set and aren't going to jump at the first offer being thrown at them.

Just noted your sig RM. Has Neeld's contract ended and if so can we judge him now?

Not directly related to Melbourne, but my mail is that three Essendon players asked to be traded because of their loss of faith in the club with everything that happened this year. Zakarakis, Myers and Kommer. Apparently they managed to talk the former around (although i'd love for us to get into his ear). Crameri wanting out is due to money / oppurtunity, not the drugs scandal.

At the right price, i'd be interested in getting Myers to our club.

We should NOT, repeat, NOT target any players from Essendon. Within the next 2-3 weeks at least a dozen of them will be issued with infraction notices which will result in 4 year bans (under the new WADA rules). This means any newly signed ex Essendon player with an infraction notice will be banned from playing with us, and we will not be able to replace him, and certainly no compensation will be paid.

We should not go near them with a barge pole....!

Okay....one more point on the 'skinny' debate and I'm done.

Gunston's build and Fyfe's build is no way like Gysbert's or Morton's - look at the size of their thighs, that allows them strength in the hips.

Secondly, Fyfe and Gunston are elite runners and extremely, extremely fit!

Thirdly, their attitude is one where they work hard to establish space and rarely get caught.

Morton and Gysberts? Pffft! Gimme a break!!

I would put 95% of that down to bad coaching and bad leadership. That is where Roos will make a huge difference, yes even with the likes of gysberts and Morton..

We should NOT, repeat, NOT target any players from Essendon. Within the next 2-3 weeks at least a dozen of them will be issued with infraction notices which will result in 4 year bans (under the new WADA rules). This means any newly signed ex Essendon player with an infraction notice will be banned from playing with us, and we will not be able to replace him, and certainly no compensation will be paid.

We should not go near them with a barge pole....!

Now that would truly cap off a wonderful year for us, wouldn't it. Trade for player X only to find him banned or 4 yrs. Very Melbourne-like.

One player who hasn't been mentioned here that I think if he can get it together is Shaun Higgins. Would not cost much due to his injuries second round pick maybe? Is skilled and this year's injury was just unlucky not soft tissue or anything and I think he would be a good fit for us

2nd round pick for Higgins? That would be pick 18. Would you rather have Higgins or have Z Jones or L Dunstan or J Kelly?

We should NOT, repeat, NOT target any players from Essendon. Within the next 2-3 weeks at least a dozen of them will be issued with infraction notices which will result in 4 year bans (under the new (?) WADA rules). This means any newly signed ex Essendon player with an infraction notice will be banned from playing with us, and we will not be able to replace him, and certainly no compensation will be paid.

We should not go near them with a barge pole....!

According to the WADA code as per their website :

10.2 Ineligibility for Presence, Use or Attempted Use,

or Possession of Prohibited Substances

and Prohibited Methods

The period of Ineligibility imposed for a violation of

Article 2.1 (Presence of Prohibited Substance or its

Metabolites or Markers), Article 2.2 (Use or

Attempted Use of Prohibited Substance or Prohibited

Method) or Article 2.6 (Possession of Prohibited

Substances and Prohibited Methods) shall be as

follows, unless the conditions for eliminating or

reducing the period of Ineligibility, as provided in

Articles 10.4 and 10.5, or the conditions for increasing

the period of Ineligibility, as provided in Article 10.6,

are met:

First violation: Two (2) years Ineligibility

I'm not sure where the 4 years you speak of is mentioned

I have said all along any team would be foolish to take on one of these leppers. Ticking time bombs !!

The sooner this is sorted and bans imposed ( or not ) the better for all to go forward

Maybe they could add an "Uninfracted player's for trade" listing to the ever growing list, that could be opened up once the charged players are announced

You might mean under 18 champs. Hard to remember him in a competition he didn't play in. He's been asking for more midfield time for years at the bombers and can find the footy. Has a big heavy build and waddles around a bit but sure can roost the footy. I wonder if he has the quickness in close to win clearances though. But Jobe Watson used to move like a boulder but now glides through stoppages using his bulk, strength and quick first step.

yes U-18's, it would have been, your right. didn't take much notice of him.

I was more interested in Mids & Tall Forwards at that time. and rucks.

he seemed to also get written up a bit on the forums back then.

But like Rockliff, some times players are better suited elsewhere than where they're played.

My point is strength through the core.

To me, Gunston and Fyfe are not skinny.

Further, Morton was an 'elite' runner by MFC standards, not Hawthorn/Freo/Geelong/Swans standards.

No, that wasn't your point. If it was, you wouldn't/shouldn't have started going on about attitudes and elite running.

Gunston and Fyfe are two of the skinniest players in their respective sides. Your devotion to your sinking ship of an argument seems to be clouding your judgement on that.

And finally, as has been addressed, Morton's running was elite by AFL standards. His attitude was not, but his running was.

Getting back onto the trade rumours how does everyone feel we will go?

My thoughts are that:

1) We won't get a good enough player offered for pick 2 and will use it on the best mid available.

2) We will pick up Cross and possibly Chapman as De-listed free agents.

3) We will trade in fringe mids from other clubs with our 3rd,4th and 5th round picks. These could be players such as; Greenwood, Michie, Liam Anthony, Shane Savage etc.

We should NOT, repeat, NOT target any players from Essendon. Within the next 2-3 weeks at least a dozen of them will be issued with infraction notices which will result in 4 year bans (under the new WADA rules). This means any newly signed ex Essendon player with an infraction notice will be banned from playing with us, and we will not be able to replace him, and certainly no compensation will be paid.

We should not go near them with a barge pole....!

Its a tricky one - but i'd still look into the Myers situation (i'm assuming there is information not publicly available about the likelihood of him being sanctioned). I think there is a chance at getting him for significantly less than market value given I do not believe Essendon would want to be seen as playing hard ball on players wanting to leave given the circumstances.

2nd round pick for Higgins? That would be pick 18. Would you rather have Higgins or have Z Jones or L Dunstan or J Kelly?

LOL josh Kelly wont last till 18 hahah

No, that wasn't your point. If it was, you wouldn't/shouldn't have started going on about attitudes and elite running.

Gunston and Fyfe are two of the skinniest players in their respective sides. Your devotion to your sinking ship of an argument seems to be clouding your judgement on that.

And finally, as has been addressed, Morton's running was elite by AFL standards. His attitude was not, but his running was.

How about you stop telling me what you think my point was/is and focus on what I'm saying.

Morton's running was not elite by AFL standards....by MFC standards. Completely different.

Fyfe and Gunston are not Gysberts/Morton skinny. They are strong in the lower half of their bodies. This, coupled with their attitude to elite standards makes them valuable players. And one more thing, they have good upper body strength as well.

I'm not clouding anything. Gu and F are physically stronger and not skinny.

I hope this is clear enough for you.

Edited September 30, 201312 yr by jumbo returns

Rumours please. Everything else stop.

According to the WADA code as per their website :

10.2 Ineligibility for Presence, Use or Attempted Use,

or Possession of Prohibited Substances

and Prohibited Methods

The period of Ineligibility imposed for a violation of

Article 2.1 (Presence of Prohibited Substance or its

Metabolites or Markers), Article 2.2 (Use or

Attempted Use of Prohibited Substance or Prohibited

Method) or Article 2.6 (Possession of Prohibited

Substances and Prohibited Methods) shall be as

follows, unless the conditions for eliminating or

reducing the period of Ineligibility, as provided in

Articles 10.4 and 10.5, or the conditions for increasing

the period of Ineligibility, as provided in Article 10.6,

are met:

First violation: Two (2) years Ineligibility

I'm not sure where the 4 years you speak of is mentioned

I have said all along any team would be foolish to take on one of these leppers. Ticking time bombs !!

The sooner this is sorted and bans imposed ( or not ) the better for all to go forward

The four years comes from the new WADA code due to come into effect on jan 1, 2014. As I understand it any infraction notices issued after that date the four year rule applies. There is a get out clause in the code which effectively states that 6 months could apply for those who have been fully cooperative in the process. Essendon has been the opposite of this - they have absolutely no hope of getting lenient sentences. It just shows how appallingly badly they have managed this, and the cost of Hird's arrogance and self-centredness.

They will pay the maximum price.. We should not deal with them in any way.

if the new penalty is 4 and if they ( players ) have in some way gone to display co-operation ( not talking of the club here, the players ) then it will be halved to 2.

As to the club itself and its henchmen ..the 4 amigos etc.. Me thinks they will be spanked with a mighty big bat. Deservedly so to. I could actually see Pretty Boy getting a life ban.

id crack open another Veuve if that occurs

But as is likely the infraction notices will be given in the not too distant future then I sense they ( players ) will cop a 1 year suspension and that might be all it takes for some to never get back to the elite level again

sooooo any rumours anyone?
We have gone rather off track again.

Nick Riewoldt is on the table . AFL trade rumours on fire again.

Trade week hasnt even started

Getting back onto the trade rumours how does everyone feel we will go?

My thoughts are that:

1) We won't get a good enough player offered for pick 2 and will use it on the best mid available.

2) We will pick up Cross and possibly Chapman as De-listed free agents.

3) We will trade in fringe mids from other clubs with our 3rd,4th and 5th round picks. These could be players such as; Greenwood, Michie, Liam Anthony, Shane Savage etc.

If that is the case, lets just go Scarenberg at 2 and DFA whatever leftovers are thrown at us! We are not coming from a position of strength, except with our draft picks