Neeld is not the problem

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

What equally makes me sick is that so called supporters wish the downfall of a club employee and rejoce

That is what makes our club a joke to the competition - not the fact Neeld will get fired in due coarse but the fact supporters wish for it

Talk about supporting 60 years of crap and counting

Again, Supporters Vs Members.

[jnrmac 20,065]

Our worst performace of the year - Watts subbed and scapegoated. Im not saying his effort is good or what have you, but he has definitely been crucified at times by Neeld. Rightly or wrongly, Watts is our most precious resource and Neeld has harmed the club by treating him in that way and it has curbed his development.

Davey is one of the few players on the list who can kick. And he is a mature player with experiecnce. Theyve subbed and greenvested him as well as scapegoat. Watts and Davey have done wrong and aren't without flaw but they shine like beacons in a world of Tapscotts, Evans, Bailses etc.

Sorry but it is totally irrelevant if they do not put effort in. Couldn't care how well they kick. Particularly if they don't get the pill

Why do you think Joel Mac Nicho, Bail and Jordie keep getting games. None can kick but at least they try their guts out.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Sorry but it is totally irrelevant if they do not put effort in. Couldn't care how well they kick. Particularly if they don't get the pill

Why do you think Joel Mac Nicho, Bail and Jordie keep getting games. None can kick but at least they try their guts out.

And we consistently lose because too many of that ilk play on a weekly basis.

Listen time for Neeld to go, he is recorded as saying -

"Neeld said he would never have recruited key forward Jesse Hogan - who cannot be played until next year - or No.4 pick Jimmy Toumpas after two hip surgeries last year if he believed he did not have time to develop":

That to me is disgraceful!

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

What equally makes me sick is that so called supporters wish the downfall of a club employee and rejoce

That is what makes our club a joke to the competition - not the fact Neeld will get fired in due coarse but the fact supporters wish for it

Talk about supporting 60 years of crap and counting

nd shareholders in poor performing companies, dont want CEO's and boards overthrown? Members, supporters whatever you want to call them want a successful team that is going to be arround in 30+ years time for their kids to watch and they want to see premierships in their lifetime, not a decaying rabble led by the worst coach in living memory!

Edited June 2, 2013 by goodoil

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

What equally makes me sick is that so called supporters wish the downfall of a club employee and rejoce

That is what makes our club a joke to the competition - not the fact Neeld will get fired in due coarse but the fact supporters wish for it

Talk about supporting 60 years of crap and counting

Come on mate. No member of any club would except the appalling performances we have dished out since his arrival. If we do not get rid of him our club looks weak. No club would continue support for its coach who had failed at every aspect of his position. The coach after all is the person who is responsible for its on-field performance. He should have been fired at the end of last season.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

And we consistently lose because too many of that ilk play on a weekly basis.

Listen time for Neeld to go, he is recorded as saying -

"Neeld said he would never have recruited key forward Jesse Hogan - who cannot be played until next year - or No.4 pick Jimmy Toumpas after two hip surgeries last year if he believed he did not have time to develop":

That to me is disgraceful!

Go to the source and stop listening to [censored] the reporters make up. What he said was (paraphrasing) that if the target was to have twelve wins by this stage of the year, they wouldn't have used pick three on a guy who can't play this year and pick four on a guy who'd had two hip surgeries and needs to be managed through the year with that in mind. This is all in context of having been at Sandringham on the weekend and marveled at how good a pickup Hogan is, lamenting that he can't play this year and also saying that Jimmy is a great talent, one of the best in the draft, but has to be managed a bit carefully until he's fully recovered from his operations. Obviously, if winning games in the short term were a priority he had been given they would have looked to get players who would have an immediate impact on the team as opposed to players who will be long-term successes.

Edited June 2, 2013 by RalphiusMaximus

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Come on mate. No member of any club would except the appalling performances we have dished out since his arrival. If we do not get rid of him our club looks weak. No club would continue support for its coach who had failed at every aspect of his position. The coach after all is the person who is responsible for its on-field performance. He should have been fired at the end of last season.

As opposed to looking like an indecisive basket-case ruled by the media? No, I'd never want to look weak! How could we live with ourselves if people who don't know a damn thing about what the club is actually doing think that we're weak!

You know, there's at least on person in Denmark who thinks I'm not funny. I don't know how I'll ever cope. Maybe I should just give up.

[Demon SeaMan 108]

Come on mate. No member of any club would except the appalling performances we have dished out since his arrival. If we do not get rid of him our club looks weak. No club would continue support for its coach who had failed at every aspect of his position. The coach after all is the person who is responsible for its on-field performance. He should have been fired at the end of last season.

What ya mean buddy? That's what only opposition supporters expect!! Fickle support of another scapegoat coach at our club

Go the deeeees. Tigers eat there own but Demons just burn the bastards. That's tradition. That's who we are

[Soidee 1,496]

As opposed to looking like an indecisive basket-case ruled by the media? No, I'd never want to look weak! How could we live with ourselves if people who don't know a damn thing about what the club is actually doing think that we're weak!

You know, there's at least on person in Denmark who thinks I'm not funny. I don't know how I'll ever cope. Maybe I should just give up.

Maybe you should consider this scenario - Neeld continues to coach us next year, pre-season is full of hype and round one is a disaster. Food for thought!

[rjay 24,928]

Go to the source and stop listening to [censored] the reporters make up. What he said was (paraphrasing) that if the target was to have twelve wins by this stage of the year, they wouldn't have used pick three on a guy who can't play this year and pick four on a guy who'd had two hip surgeries and needs to be managed through the year with that in mind. This is all i context of having been at Sandringham on the weekend and marveled at how good a pickup Hogan is, lamenting that he can't play this year and also saying that Jimmy is a great talent, one of the best in the draft, but has to be managed a bit carefully until he's fully recovered from his operations. Obviously, if winning games in the short term were a priority he had been given they would have looked to get layers who would have an immediate impact on the team as opposed to players who will be long-term successes.

I think this is true and if the board have ticked off on this strategy then they have to back him or have a very good reason if they don't. I think this is where Jackson comes into the equation, as a fresh set of eyes. Is the strategy sound, can it be sustained or will the business as a whole suffer to much.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Come on mate. No member of any club would except the appalling performances we have dished out since his arrival. If we do not get rid of him our club looks weak. No club would continue support for its coach who had failed at every aspect of his position. The coach after all is the person who is responsible for its on-field performance. He should have been fired at the end of last season.

This thread to discuss other factors apart form Neeld so you're speaking in the wrong thread

But you are right - there are a couple of things people are missing

1/ We need to sack Neeld properly - he thinks he is doing right by the club so clearly the board or someone in power has given him authority to do what he is doing

2/ This project was always gong to take time - not some fictional timelime where I am not sure what results you are expecting

I do agree with the context of your argument GNF - Neeld will be sacked for poor performance

But at least consider a few additional facts

Neeld was installed to set up elite performance - that may not be on field, but I've heard a few people say that off field Neeld is achieving that (See articles and Choco Royal today speaking to the members)

No power club is dictated to by the media or supporters see (Cats, hwaks, pies etc)

In the simplest form you are promoting the continued weak culture of this club - something you refuse to recognise

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

What equally makes me sick is that so called supporters wish the downfall of a club employee and rejoce

That is what makes our club a joke to the competition - not the fact Neeld will get fired in due coarse but the fact supporters wish for it

Talk about supporting 60 years of crap and counting

nd shareholders in poor performing companies, dont want CEO's and boards overthrown? Members, supporters whatever you want to call them want a successful team that is going to be arround in 30+ years time for their kids to watch and they want to see premierships in their lifetime, not a decaying rabble led by the worst coach in living memory!

Agree goodoil but as I replied to GNF we need to do it properly

Contracts and words have to be kept - you and I have no idea what the board and Neeld agreed what the direction of the club was to be

Bowing to media pressure does not solve anything

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I'll repeat myself

Name me a top 4 or even 8 side that has let players dictate the direction of the club

Thye don't - they move those players on

That's my personal worry

Don't worry about Neeld - I have no doubt he'll be sacked soon and it may be for the right reasons but it will continue our 60 years of weakness and still going strong... The same board that wanted club culture change hasn't got the balls to see it through

Didn't Sam Mitchell talk to Luke Hodge and agree to hand over the captaincy to him? Does that count as players dictating the club direction? Nevertheless, point taken.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

What equally makes me sick is that so called supporters wish the downfall of a club employee and rejoce

That is what makes our club a joke to the competition - not the fact Neeld will get fired in due coarse but the fact supporters wish for it

Talk about supporting 60 years of crap and counting

neeld being sacked to appease supporters does have a knights feel to it...

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Maybe you should consider this scenario - Neeld continues to coach us next year, pre-season is full of hype and round one is a disaster. Food for thought!

A round one loss? Disaster!

I'd be more concerned if we got to the end of next season without some runs on the board. I'm perfectly willing to give Neeld the time to do the work, but I want to see that there is something to show for it at the end.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Didn't Sam Mitchell talk to Luke Hodge and agree to hand over the captaincy to him? Does that count as players dictating the club direction? Nevertheless, point taken.

What more can I say strong club vs us

Plus i doubt we have a Luke Hodge or Sam Mitchel type on our list atm

[Macca 16,971]

Whichever way you look at the media reports and speculation re Mark, it just doesn't look good for the club. If Neeld has been hung out to dry, it's obviously the wrong way to do things. And if rumour isn't true, get on the front foot and come out and defend one of your own. The club has had a whole week to refute the claims in the media - what do we get? Silence.

As much as I've critiqued Neeld and his coaching attributes, he deserves to be treated with the utmost respect. There's the goodwill going forward to think of as well.

Sacking Bailey the way we did had it's consequences. That's apart from a long list of recent veteran players finishing under a cloud. Neitz is about our only recent veteran player to have a decent ending at the club.

With nearly every other veteran, there's been a 'story' attached. TJ, Yze, Robbo, Junior, Bruce, Moloney, Green, Rivers and others head a long list of 'interesting' departures or exits. Too many departed the way they did for it all to be a coincidence.

The club doesn't handle it's exits well and this is possibly shaping up as another one. Neeld will know stuff that the footy world doesn't know. That intellectual property has to be protected. So you treat the man with respect.

I just hope we don't get that lousy excuse of 'appeasing the supporter base' like we got when CS was moved on. I felt at the time that the 'polarises the supporter base' excuse was a way of deflecting the blame away from those who should have been to blame.

Edit: The above is not meant to be an endorsement of Mark nor should it be seen as a critical analysis of his coaching abilities. That stuff has been covered in various threads. It is simply my view on how the club should treat those people employed by the club and other people who are connected to the club.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Macca

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

neeld being sacked to appease supporters does have a knights feel to it...

Maybe.... but they installed Hird and it still took Hird the better part of 3 years to get them to where they are now (Was PJ in charge then?? haha not 100% sure)

It's taken Hird and Bomber time and they're list was more advanced then ours

So again I say- what's the rush? The board need to be strong and not bow to the media if they believe in what they're doing (im assuming they've given Neeld permission to rebuild / re-develop)

Strong clubs don't bow to pressure - this club does it on and off field - 60 years of crap and counting

If they believe Neeld should go they need to do it property as there are contracts and agreements the club need to meet - not just make reaction decisions (will we never learn from mishandling employees?)

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[pm24 451]

I love the inconsistencies of some of the anti-Neeld comments here: First the sign that he had lost the players was the lack of effort. Now in the last two weeks they have had over 70 tackles, and today in particular, showed a great deal of effort, but despite acknowledging that effort, Neeld still should go?? I love the statements that say there is no gameplan, but no explanation as to why they say this, or the failure to consider that we have a very inexperienced team out on the field each week who are still learning to play AFL level footy.

I will actually be [censored] off with the club if the choose to sack Neeld not just tomorrow, but even at the end of the season. I like the direction that club is taking with the rebuild. I've read and heard numerous media commentators argue that our list lacked players in that 22-26 age bracket with 100 games experience, and that was before Neeld. They were saying that under Bailey. Guess what, it's still a problem and its part of what has lead to the rebuild. We don't have the luxury of a group of 100 game mid fielders to trot out there on a weekly basis. The only way for this club to improve is to develop the young players, and it takes time.

Another reason I will be annoyed if they sack Neeld, is because I believe it would be a very WEAK act by the club to do so. It shows that the club will succumb to the pressure from the media and football public, and does not have the guts to stick with its plans. It shows that the club is reactive, not proactive. It would also have a negative effect on the players. You can't just keep swapping coaches over hoping one might satisfy every player.

After what's been said about Moloney, I'm glad I don't have to see him in the red and blue any more. The guy might have had skill to play football, but if he's going to be so selfish that he cracks a tantrum when he doesn't get his way, and acts detrimental to the team, the as far as I'm concerned he should have been removed. This isn't the first time he's done it either apparently. I've had a colleague speak directly with Paul Couch (due to Tom being on the Rookie list) and Paul Couch said he did the same thing when he was at Geelong. If he didn't get what he wanted, he lowered his head and pouted around.

To me the list moves that have been made have been good for the club. The experience and character of guys like Rodan and Byrnes provides something we did not previously have, that is guys with finals/premiership experience.

I also have one key question to the Anti-Neeld people. IF Neeld was/is such a bad coach, why would a player who has already played in a team he has coached, then leave that team to come to Melbourne? Think about that for a moment. If you were in a work place and one of the managers absolutely sucked, would you then choose to go and work under that Manager at a new company?

Dawes chose to come to Melbourne after already having a good experience with Neeld in Collingwood. I'm going to trust the opinion of a guy who has played in a premiership winning side, over a guy like Moloney when determining if Neeld can coach. It is also notable to me, that many of the new additions have nothing but praise for Neeld. Clarke has always been positive about things. Byrnes and Rodan as well.

So if the new guys we've brought in, who are experienced players, are saying positive things about Neeld, it leads me to question the opinion of ex-players like Moloney, who didn't see eye to ey with Neeld. I then hear guys like Cale Morton comment on our poor training standards pre-Neeld when compared to West Coast, who also said that he thinks we'll get there, and can't help but think we are on the right path.

This is the type of rebuild we needed to a long time ago. The culture and lack of leadership has put us into this position and it takes time to dig out of it. Give me a few more years of pain anyday if it's going to mean a stronger culture, and a stronger club for the next 20 years!

Edited June 2, 2013 by pm24

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

.....

That is a ripper post PM

I wish I could verbalise my thoughts as well as you

I agree 100% with all points -

Neeld should be held accountable for poor performance but that wasn't today - the scoreboard wasn't a true reflection of his coaching. Hawks are a very good unit and will play deep in September

Take cheap shots all you want peeps on here but when I hear from indsidte the club they believe ELITE performance is being demanded and being met off field - it needs to be translated to onfield and score baord . The board led by PJ and Mclardy either need to back it in or move on with Neeld

95 point losses are not acceptable - but understand where the team is at

Edited June 2, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Cards13 9,117]

Putting too many players behind the ball plays into the hands of the good sides - particularly good kicking sides like the hawks. It also destroys the structures that they are trying to implement. It's just defeatist.

Too many times the players kick to a position rather than to where their tea mates are actually running.

Too often they are scared to take responsibility and just give the ball off to get rid of it.

These are fundamentals that a coach is responsible for-to make the players less fearful of making errors.

Flogging that dead horse again

[Pates 9,660]

Maybe you should consider this scenario - Neeld continues to coach us next year, pre-season is full of hype and round one is a disaster. Food for thought!

Consider this scenario - we sack Neeld and by a miracle (and $1 Million per year) we get Paul Roos, pre-season is full of hype and round one is a disaster. Food for thought.

I honestly feel like this club is going around in circles with re-re-rebuilds and sacking coaches. I'm not totally against sacking Neeld as I can't see any improvement on the field but at what point do we just say to a coach "you will have your time"? Has anyone else noticed that Mark Neeld has been in the sites of much of the media from the start, before he even coached his first match? That's because he is coaching Melbourne, a club with a history of sacking coaches so they knew that if they heaped the pressure on and things weren't working out then they would be right on it. If Choco is our coach next year I would be asking for a 5 year contract if I were him.

[EDIT] I've also got to question the timing of it if tomorrow he is sacked. We've played Fremantle away (who just had a draw with last year premiers at the SCG) and the Hawks who the premiership favourites, and from all reports the effort was there it was just the execution which is a difficult thing for the coach to change. Of course these two matches were going to be painful, I would prefer waiting until we face the doggies and saints before making this decision. As many have said here, our club will be weak if they bow to media pressure.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Pates

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Whichever way you look at the media reports and speculation re Mark, it just doesn't look good for the club. If Neeld has been hung out to dry, it's obviously the wrong way to do things. And if rumour isn't true, get on the front foot and come out and defend one of your own. The club has had a whole week to refute the claims in the media - what do we get? Silence.

As much as I've critiqued Neeld and his coaching attributes, he deserves to be treated with the utmost respect. There's the goodwill going forward to think of as well.

Sacking Bailey the way we did had it's consequences. That's apart from a long list of recent veteran players finishing under a cloud.Neitz is about our only recent veteran player to have a decent ending at the club.

With nearly every other veteran, there's been a 'story' attached. TJ, Yze, Robbo, Junior, Bruce, Moloney, Green, Rivers and others head a long list of 'interesting' departures or exits. Too many departed the way they did for it all to be a coincidence.

The club has no idea how to handle it's exits and this is shaping up as another one. Neeld will know stuff that the footy world doesn't know. That intellectual property has to be protected. So you treat the man with respect.

I just hope we don't get that lousy excuse of 'appeasing the supporter base' like we got when CS was moved on. I felt at the time that the 'polarises the supporter base' excuse was a way of deflecting the blame away from those who should have been to blame.

Pass the buck. Let the supporters wear it.

Some good points there as well Macca

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

...

I'll add to that a comment from Dawes tonight that the standards being set behind the scenes with training, recovery etc are all at the top level, and we can take his word for that as someone who has come from one of the top teams in that area and played a premiership with them.

[rpfc 28,433]

pm - some of what Neeld has done has been very beneficial to the future of the club and for the prospects for the players at this club to reach their potential (namely with the upgrade in training standards). Not everything he has done has been a disaster and not everything we have seen from his teams has been deplorable.

Unfortunately, the critical mass of deplorable has been reached and his time is borrowed.

The players have to respond to mirror any good work a coach has done. The have to illustrate with their performances a scope of improvement that instils confidence in their coach from those at the club, the sponsors, the members, and the supporters in general.

The improvement has been fleeting, overshadowed, and too infrequent. What does it matter when you play a solid 4 quarters against Richmond when the next week you are 7 goals down at quarter time against Fremantle. What does 70 tackles mean when you are beaten by 95 points?

I hope we can get our whole house in order soon, and unfortunately for Neeld, his family, his fans, and the whole of the Demon community who hoped different - we will have a caretaker coach soon, and a new coach in 2014.