No use sacking Neeld

[binman 38,796]

Neeld has just spent his first year assessing the list from the inside out, & has only just cleared the immediate dead wood that cannot help fix the club... Of course we have momentarily gone backwards, but only momentarily...

Ahhhhh! My head hurts. How on earth could you come to that conclusion. Neeld is the one who has set the non negotiables. The talent of the playing list has no bearing whatsoever on effort and desire. Neeld got rid of those he thought were a bad influence and brought in players who would help instill a fierce, elite (ha) take no prisoners culture

From Connolly's article today:

'Melbourne was 15th for contested ball when it took on Richmond in round three last year. It finished the season 16th. Now it's 18th. On the clearance front, the Demons went into that April game 16th. It finished the season 18th. It's still 17th.

Over the last year-and-a-bit, Richmond has been able to concentrate more on ironing out the rough edges in its make-up, finding some goalkicking alternatives to Jack Riewoldt in attack, and improving the quality of its disposal coming out of defence.

Melbourne doesn't have that luxury when it can't even count on making it to football's first base, having a genuine crack.'

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-v-demons-no-debate-now-20130516-2jo9h.html#ixzz2TQqexefb

[bing181 8,188]

Take a look at Port Adelaide - they lost important players Pearce, Chaplin and McCarthy over summer, but they replaced their failing coach and president and they're showing signifcant improvement. Their leadership group is Boak, Ebert, Schulz, Gray, Hartlett and Trengove.

Port had off-field problems last year, together with the will he won't he go/stay Boak saga. For this year they've rejigged their under-performing and dysfunctional FD and admin. We're now seeing the kind of Port I thought we'd be seeing last year: a team that can generally beat teams in the lower regions of the ladder, and might get a scalp or two at home, but I don't know much more than that.

Not so much an improvement as a correction. Let's see how it plays out over the season, but I'd be surprised if they make the 8, hard to see how they're going to get another 7 or so wins.

[Demon Dynasty 15,746]

coaching ballarat swans in the bfl

Ok. Wonder how that's going then.

Sadly I'm not privy to anything there RN.

I just think it makes sense in weird kind of way, despite the fact he turns 70 this year.

As you said he's still been heavily involved in coaching footy up in the Ballarat area I believe it is and am on vey good authority that he still eally loves the club. He's a coach who demands respect and as he did with us in the 80's and Brisbane in the mid to late 90's really fosters an us against them mentality which we could really use. If Richmond weren't obsessed with trying to secure Sheedy at the end of the 95 season what he could have achieved there?

I'm obviously aware that as he's now 70 that it wouldn' be a long term appointment, however due to his love of the club I reckon we could get him on the cheap and afford to throw more mney at quality assistants to take over after say 3 years of Northey sewing the seeds. Like Barassi did at Sydney for Eade we could do here with Northey for say Tudor or Sumich as the situation we're currently in is pretty unfair to throw a rookie coach into. Northey's been there and done it all before.

Lets not forget in one of the last games Northey coached for this club we knocked off the Filth who were top of the table at their derilict home ground at Victoria Park when we were out of finals contention. Just an example of what he could get out of his players, even when we weren't necessarily having our best seasons.

As I said I highly doubt it would happen, but I tell you what we could do a lot worse.

Fair enough TD. Well i for one would love to see him back in any capacity, although i'm pretty sure he's beyond a senior coaching role (from his point of view i mean, just being realistic). But even as a motivational/mentor type assistant maybe. He had a way of getting the players to focus on game day and perform to their best most of the time. I'd have him back in a heart beat if he was willing and the right role could be found. Much admiration and fond memories of Swooper's era.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

I'm not simply angry and demanding change - I've simply come to the conclusion that Neeld is not the coach to lead us out of the problems we're facing, in fact he's a contributing cause. I'm quite sanguine about it (as RPFC said - in both senses) - it's a big ask and he's just not up to it. I agree we're in a diabolical state and it's definitely not all of Neeld's making but he's not helping, he's contributing to diabolo.

Let's not keep making mistakes by handling the Neeld issue - poorly is all I am saying.

[Hardnut 327]

Let's not keep making mistakes by handling the Neeld issue - poorly is all I am saying.

There's only one way to handle it 'Unleash' and I'm confident that underneath you really know it.

[Lordweaver 235]

If neeldy has lost the players, can't coach or both then the sooner we cut him loose the better. If he is not in the plans for 2014 then bye bye, absolutely no point in continuing with him.

[Return to Glory 7,779]

My understanding is that Mark Neeld now intends to send out a correction to his earlier statement to the media- "we are not going to be the hardest team to play. We are, in fact, going to be the hardest team, ever, to watch. Ours will be a long running dynasty of truly unwatchable football." He added, "the team I've selected this week is very much in line with this philosophy"

Edited May 16, 2013 by Return to Glory

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

There's only one way to handle it 'Unleash' and I'm confident that underneath you really know it.

I have little doubt what is going to happen hardnut

We (as a club) could at least do it with some dignity for once - Bailey/McLean should be recent examples of what not to do - J Mac etc, thats all I'm saying

[olisik 4,060]

According to Damien Barrett who spent the day with Mark Neeld, Mark Neeld has says that everything is on track to what he said he would do/was asked to do

[Pates 9,537]

According to Damien Barrett who spent the day with Mark Neeld, Mark Neeld has says that everything is on track to what he said he would do/was asked to do

It's incredible to think that he'd be "shocked and dismayed" if he were to be given the sack this year.

iF the club were to back him in, then I think the need to look at getting a high profile experienced coach to be an assistant and mentor for him much like the Hird/Thompson situation.

[michael collins 49]

According to Damien Barrett who spent the day with Mark Neeld, Mark Neeld has says that everything is on track to what he said he would do/was asked to do

So he thinks he was asked to demolish the club? Seriously though, he may be right, but it would truly help if he could tell the supporters what he is doing and what the timeframe is - what his targets are etc. Otherwise, at the end of this year, whatever happens, he can still say "everything is on track" and there's no way to judge the truth of it.

[olisik 4,060]

So he thinks he was asked to demolish the club? Seriously though, he may be right, but it would truly help if he could tell the supporters what he is doing and what the timeframe is - what his targets are etc. Otherwise, at the end of this year, whatever happens, he can still say "everything is on track" and there's no way to judge the truth of it.

Political response, country is falling apart and yet they continue to say its all fine and on-track. Then comes the budget.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If everything is actually on track based on what Neeld has advised the Board then Neeld should indeed be sacked and McLardy soon after. There could be no possible way such an appalling low performance standard could be any form of legitimate benchmark to be measured against.

And I am sure Neeld would tell supporters what he is doing if only he actually knew.

[daisycutter 28,637]

Neeld the Communicator - LOL

This is more than a tragedy its becoming a farce

[deanox 8,721]

As devils advocate, is neeld of the opinion that he is on track because he was set the tasks of:

-Bringing our fitness up to AFL levels

-Removing the tail wagging the dog culture

-Developing young leaders

It is not unreasonable to expect a 2 or 3 year turn around on a problem like that, given the list can only be turned over so many at a time, and only so many experienced and quality additions can be added due to availability. Also, such a gutting of the club to change inherent problems is bound to have a short term detrimental affect on performance due to removal of so many key on field people for off field reasons.

If this is truly the task he was set - rebuild from the ground up - would we expect better results?

[Jaded No More 58,658]

God help us all if there is even a single person at our club who thinks we are onto a good thing here.

FFS we are beyond a joke on and off the field right now. How delusional is Neeld, and indeed how dumb does the club think we are?

Did we really pencil in 1 win for the season? Thrashing against GC, Brisbane and Port at home?

I just wish Neeld would stop speaking to the media. He is pouring gas on an open fire.

[Tricky 337]

It's incredible to think that he'd be "shocked and dismayed" if he were to be given the sack this year.

iF the club were to back him in, then I think the need to look at getting a high profile experienced coach to be an assistant and mentor for him much like the Hird/Thompson situation.

Like Neil Craig?

[michael collins 49]

As devils advocate, is neeld of the opinion that he is on track because he was set the tasks of:

-Bringing our fitness up to AFL levels

-Removing the tail wagging the dog culture

-Developing young leaders

It is not unreasonable to expect a 2 or 3 year turn around on a problem like that, given the list can only be turned over so many at a time, and only so many experienced and quality additions can be added due to availability. Also, such a gutting of the club to change inherent problems is bound to have a short term detrimental affect on performance due to removal of so many key on field people for off field reasons.

If this is truly the task he was set - rebuild from the ground up - would we expect better results?

This might be exactly what he was asked to do - wouldn't be at all surprised. I'm not saying we should expect better results. I am saying I think its fair that we are told what task he was set, and what results we should expect, in what timeframe. I don't expect confidential or personal information, but there is nothing but platitudes coming out of the club at the moment.

If we were told two wins this season, 8 next season, finals the year after - I could live with it. But we may be told, after this year, that we have to start again, under a new coach, who will say "we have to rebuild - be patient - everything is on track". There's just no way for supporters to assess how things are going, unless the club lets a bit more information out.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Ahhhhh! My head hurts. How on earth could you come to that conclusion. Neeld is the one who has set the non negotiables. The talent of the playing list has no bearing whatsoever on effort and desire. Neeld got rid of those he thought were a bad influence and brought in players who would help instill a fierce, elite (ha) take no prisoners culture

From Connolly's article today:

'Melbourne was 15th for contested ball when it took on Richmond in round three last year. It finished the season 16th. Now it's 18th. On the clearance front, the Demons went into that April game 16th. It finished the season 18th. It's still 17th.

Over the last year-and-a-bit, Richmond has been able to concentrate more on ironing out the rough edges in its make-up, finding some goalkicking alternatives to Jack Riewoldt in attack, and improving the quality of its disposal coming out of defence.

Melbourne doesn't have that luxury when it can't even count on making it to football's first base, having a genuine crack.'

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-v-demons-no-debate-now-20130516-2jo9h.html#ixzz2TQqexefb

Its belief, the lack of experience amongst the selected team, leaves the young players feeling without confidence in the collective team... and the team then goes into their shells, especially youngsters. & especially conservative minded youngsters.

in the past we have played kids way before they are ready... in an Experienced team like the Cats are at the moment, They, can cover their kids & look out for them, & the young player will lift amongst their Idols, to not let the team down.

But ours are overburdened thru a lack of confidence in the young team, & then lose composure & they then rush their decisions & react under pressure coughing the ball up.

when this happens, the players go into their shells & try to play safe football, which makes it easier for the opposition to increase the pressure both ways. defensive & offensive.

when our guys go into their shells & become overwhelmed, it appears like they aren't trying. they are trying to think their way through, instead of playing instinctive footy. this slows their thoughts & reactions down & telegraphs to the opposition whats coming. which makes it worse.

I've been saying all season we need to play as many experienced players as we can to get some team momentum going. Once the team is up & going then we can ease in some more young ones.

It doesn't matter if we drop a few games here & there, because our older players aren't quite A grade, but 150 point losses are damaging. small losses still allow the team to regroup & get belief.

There isn't any easy way to cleanup the culture, without a clean out, & bring is some fresh & healthy culture in mature players.

If we had of done this back in 2008, we would have been thru it by now & well on our way. but no one realised imo, just how soft & lazy the old was. they thought they could build over it.

# edit::: thats the problem with people going on stats only, stats don't show everything, they don't show why the kids aren't developing, they don't show why the kids aren't training well.

& when the kids aren't pushing up, the senior players have it easy to keep their spots. Lazy... its a viscious cycle.

& stats show when the opposition back off & only play as hard as they need to to get the points, allowing us to rack up possessions?

Edited May 16, 2013 by dee-luded

[chookrat 3,778]

Dee-luded, I really like your explanation of our teams performances and what Neeld is trying to do.

I think back to the things that Neeld has said at various times and the themes are consistent:

- Teaching the players to have care for team mates

- Core group of young players

- Feel for the players, need to supporting the players

- Games experience

- There is nowhere to hide and no easy way out

To me this shows a clear focus on teaching the players to work for each other and to set the standard for how they play - rather than relying on the coach to rev them up if their performance drops. It also recognizes that such change is difficult and while the players know what is expected they also need support to get there.

Looking back over the past 5 years we rarely won games when we had our backs against the wall and struggled to stem the flow when teams got a run on. If we look at top sides such as Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn they are at their best when the game is in the balance. These were all poor sides not too long ago, but learnt how to win by developing a core group of players that would not taking the easy way out.

My interpretation is that when Neeld came in it was clear that our senior players were not going to provide the leadership required and that our best leaders were among the younger players - Jack Grimes and Jack Trengove. I think last week we really missed them both, along with Mitch Clark and probably Mark Jamar to an extent. I think we have also felt the loss of Clint Bartram, Joel MacDonald (hasn't played a game this season) and Jared Rivers this season.

While our low at the moment seems much lower than other teams at their worst, this needs to be put into context of the situation our club was in in 2011 - leading up to 186. Our main problem is that we don't have a core group of players that have played many games together. As they younger players in this group get more experience I think our fortunes will start to turn rather quickly. The performances from Colin Garland and Colin Silvia is a sign of our more experienced players developing into leaders. I think we will see the team settle as the season progresses and with Chris Dawes in the side, Mitch Clark returning after the bye, Jack Trengove gaining match fitness and hopefully Jack Grimes continuing his form when he gets back from injury this should help us along.

I really hope we stay with Neeld for this season as I think making them work through this (no easy way out) will also give the confidence and shared belief that they as a group can turn their performance. Changing coach again would only shift accountability for poor effort away from the playing group and encourage lazy, unaccountable football and I think will set us back even further.

Its belief, the lack of experience amongst the selected team, leaves the young players feeling without confidence in the collective team... and the team then goes into their shells, especially youngsters. & especially conservative minded youngsters.

in the past we have played kids way before they are ready... in an Experienced team like the Cats are at the moment, They, can cover their kids & look out for them, & the young player will lift amongst their Idols, to not let the team down.

But ours are overburdened thru a lack of confidence in the young team, & then lose composure & they then rush their decisions & react under pressure coughing the ball up.

when this happens, the players go into their shells & try to play safe football, which makes it easier for the opposition to increase the pressure both ways. defensive & offensive.

when our guys go into their shells & become overwhelmed, it appears like they aren't trying. they are trying to think their way through, instead of playing instinctive footy. this slows their thoughts & reactions down & telegraphs to the opposition whats coming. which makes it worse.

I've been saying all season we need to play as many experienced players as we can to get some team momentum going. Once the team is up & going then we can ease in some more young ones.

It doesn't matter if we drop a few games here & there, because our older players aren't quite A grade, but 150 point losses are damaging. small losses still allow the team to regroup & get belief.

There isn't any easy way to cleanup the culture, without a clean out, & bring is some fresh & healthy culture in mature players.

If we had of done this back in 2008, we would have been thru it by now & well on our way. but no one realised imo, just how soft & lazy the old was. they thought they could build over it.

# edit::: thats the problem with people going on stats only, stats don't show everything, they don't show why the kids aren't developing, they don't show why the kids aren't training well.

& when the kids aren't pushing up, the senior players have it easy to keep their spots. Lazy... its a viscious cycle.

& stats show when the opposition back off & only play as hard as they need to to get the points, allowing us to rack up possessions?

[rufus 916]

God help us all if there is even a single person at our club who thinks we are onto a good thing here.

FFS we are beyond a joke on and off the field right now. How delusional is Neeld, and indeed how dumb does the club think we are?

Did we really pencil in 1 win for the season? Thrashing against GC, Brisbane and Port at home?

I just wish Neeld would stop speaking to the media. He is pouring gas on an open fire.

Agreed. If he has been given some sort of assurance by the club at this stage then I think I may have lost the last bit of faith I had left. I just can't get my head around the people still trying to argue that this is all part of the plan. If anybody heard and can remember Neelds somewhat arrogant radio interview just before the first round match against Brisbane on 2012 where he talked about how he'd taken our boys to "Football University" and how we were going to be a hard team to play against you'd know that he was not expecting to be going down the path that we are now.

At the 2012 commencement dinner he mocked the football media for questioning the style he was trying to implement by saying 'apparently you're not allowed to experiment in the NAB Cup' when it turns out the style he served up in that NAB cup was exactly what we entered the season with. One of the Brisbane assistant coaches actually publicly stated before that match that they know exactly how Melbourne are going to play and as such it's not a hard game to plan for.

The 'out-muscled by Gold Coast' and constant reference to our lack of experience are enough for me. It's actually embarrassing now. I think Grant Thomas, Shane Crawford and others who were questioning what Neeld was doing right from his first coaching effort were right, he's just not the man for the job. Let's hope someone in a position of power gets it sorted because I share the sentiments of others in that it's hard to fathom how us supporters will continue to turn up to the games to watch these ridiculous performances....and that will spell real trouble for the club.

[Craig Drinker 179]

Maybe we are a side that cannot afford to bottom out anymore and maybe we should consider operating the way Sydney does which is a side that never afford to bottom out in their market. This would take some very astute recruiting in getting the right combination of youth and experience.

It would mean recruiting more mature age and recycled players, but also getting the right ones. Not the Rodan, Byrnes, Gillies,Sellar types etc.

What do you think? This could be a succesful path to take for us and Sydney proved you can win premierships with this method. It is also healthier for membership sales.

Just a thought!

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Maybe we are a side that cannot afford to bottom out anymore and maybe we should consider operating the way Sydney does which is a side that never afford to bottom out in their market. This would take some very astute recruiting in getting the right combination of youth and experience.

It would mean recruiting more mature age and recycled players, but also getting the right ones. Not the Rodan, Byrnes, Gillies,Sellar types etc.

What do you think? This could be a succesful path to take for us and Sydney proved you can win premierships with this method. It is also healthier for membership sales.

Just a thought!

Agree 100%

[jazza 1,323]

So he thinks he was asked to demolish the club? Seriously though, he may be right, but it would truly help if he could tell the supporters what he is doing and what the timeframe is - what his targets are etc. Otherwise, at the end of this year, whatever happens, he can still say "everything is on track" and there's no way to judge the truth of it.

interesting, he said he was doing what was asked by the club?

IF this is true all posters calling for his scalp may now turn thier attention to the board and ask them the QUESTION

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

interesting, he said he was doing what was asked by the club?

IF this is true all posters calling for his scalp may now turn thier attention to the board and ask them the QUESTION

I certainly think the Board needs to be looked at as well. The lack of footy nous on the Board is not good in my view. However, as has previously been said on here, Neeld stated from the beginning that he wanted to make the MFC the hardest team to play against. They were his own words. While I accept his objective could not be attained within the time he has coached thus far, going backwards surely is not what the Board asked him to do.

Given the lack of footy smarts on the Board in any event, how on earth could they even think of telling him what he should do.