What happens if we lose to GWS?

[tonatopia 278]

I reckon there's some coin available.

Several delistings/retirements will free some coin.

Dal Santo is RFA and perhaps make a call to van Berlo?

Or, as you suggested, Daisy.

Yeh, thatll do it. More pea-hearted mercenaries.

If we lose to gws, there will be a massive cleanout, and I'm not talking about players

[Return to Glory 8,448]

We failed to develop Cook to the extent that no one even rookied him and he is playing VFL seconds. On his first training run with us he cried. In his first Casey practice match, he gibbed a ball pick up so badly, my son said "this guy will never play a game of AFL." He was right, off one incident. How long did the worst recruiter in AFL history BP spend looking at Cook? Every other recruiter laughed at us when we took him.

Look at our midfield, we don't have one.

Yes blame our development. Of course, we should have developed the sub standard players we drafted and made them good.

BP has killed us. I would sue him for return of his salary.

Did he really cry?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Yeh, thatll do it. More pea-hearted mercenaries.

If we lose to gws, there will be a massive cleanout, and I'm not talking about players

Can you name the pea hearted mercenaries, please?

[Carlos Danger 380]

Won't happen.

Teams lose to a side like GWS because they get ahead of themselves.

There's no chance of that happening here, the preparation and belief for this one will be extensive to say the least.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

We failed to develop Cook to the extent that no one even rookied him and he is playing VFL seconds. On his first training run with us he cried. In his first Casey practice match, he gibbed a ball pick up so badly, my son said "this guy will never play a game of AFL." He was right, off one incident. How long did the worst recruiter in AFL history BP spend looking at Cook? Every other recruiter laughed at us when we took him.

Look at our midfield, we don't have one.

Yes blame our development. Of course, we should have developed the sub standard players we drafted and made them good.

BP has killed us. I would sue him for return of his salary.

Have to say I agree with you Redleg, from memory when Brereton got involved with the Hawks he set about them drafting a particular style of player and they all had to be hard at it players. I knew nothing about Cook so wont go into the Cook/Darling debate I watched Darling from a young age and also saw how dramatically he dropped off when he started playing seniors at West Perth, so I was not surprised he was looked over by a lot of clubs. But it is clear with the Watts, Morton, Bennell & Gysbert pick ups BP had absolutely no idea or a massive lack of investigative ability to establish if the players had a solid work ethic. Surely above Cook if we didn't want Darling there were much better obvious choices. I would assume he was trying to find a star which other recruiters were not aware of or more to the point other recruiters did not rate as highly as he did.

I would assume we have addressed the problem by moving BP on and taking Taylor from Collingwood and this will take time, Taggert, Clark, Couch, Magner, Viney, Kent, Hogan seem to show the players Neeld likes. Toumpas goes against them a bit over Wines but I will cop that as we were getting Viney. Neeld has taken no prisoners with the way he has undertaken the dramatic change and it looks as it could cost him his job, but we really did need to start going down this road while Danniher was here and not leave it this late.

I may be biased but in a choice of two always would go for the player with work ethic and/or nasty streak over a long term project player. Yes we have had a big problem with development but the recruiting was the major factor and the philosophy BP chose with talent over ethic is the reason we do not have Hurley, Dangerfield, Sloan, Hennebury, Shuey and either Tallia or Darling.

Depresses me just typing it

[Hardnut 327]

The loss to WC was worse than the loss to Essendon. A loss in the next round to GWS in theory would be worse again. However, we should stop trying to assess losses based on the so-called ability of our opponents. The reality is that every loss is worse than the previous - our aim should be to win against anyone by any amount!

[Nasher 33,617]

The loss to WC was worse than the loss to Essendon.

No it wasn't. Look I was upset at the end of the WC loss too, but this is pure rot. We were competitive for a half against West Coast, we literally did not fire a shot against Essendon from start to finish (even if you ingore the fact that West Coast are a better side than Essendon). You're one of those people who revises history more as more time passes.

[keep13alive 78]

We failed to develop Cook to the extent that no one even rookied him and he is playing VFL seconds. On his first training run with us he cried. In his first Casey practice match, he gibbed a ball pick up so badly, my son said "this guy will never play a game of AFL." He was right, off one incident. How long did the worst recruiter in AFL history BP spend looking at Cook? Every other recruiter laughed at us when we took him.

Look at our midfield, we don't have one.

Yes blame our development. Of course, we should have developed the sub standard players we drafted and made them good.

BP has killed us. I would sue him for return of his salary.

He screwed us on the way in and out.Please invoice the half a million he cost us by sooking to AFL re:their not guilty but pay anyway clause.

[robbiefrom13 893]

Jumbo et al, the thing is, we only have the players we have. It's the coach's job to get out of them what they may be capable of. You bag out the players as not having anything in them, while others of us bag out the coach for not getting anything out of them.

What is not negotiable is which players we have to pick from, for the remainder of this year. You cannot improve anything by targeting the players, not before the end of the year - it just isn't possible to dump and replace them. So, if what is going on is not acceptable (surely we are agreed on that...), the only change that can be tried is changing the coach.

Sure, there are risks. But there isn't much there at the moment, it's hard to see how it could get worse. And another coach would do it differently, and in theory this could result in a different outcome on match day. Could hardly be worse.

If what is happening is unacceptable, then whatever changes it is what we have to go with.

And perhaps I'd see it differently if Neeld wasn't telling us - and looking like - he has no ideas. Something has got to change.

[Hardnut 327]

No it wasn't. Look I was upset at the end of the WC loss too, but this is pure rot. We were competitive for a half against West Coast, we literally did not fire a shot against Essendon from start to finish (even if you ingore the fact that West Coast are a better side than Essendon). You're one of those people who revises history more as more time passes.

Rubbish! I agree we were not in the hunt against Essendon. However, against WC we ran round in circles, around the boundary line, and in continual energy sapping rugby style plays. In short, we did not use a sensible game plan when we had a chance to do so. We were never competitive, seriously - the end was just a matter of time.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Jumbo et al, the thing is, we only have the players we have. It's the coach's job to get out of them what they may be capable of. You bag out the players as not having anything in them, while others of us bag out the coach for not getting anything out of them.

What is not negotiable is which players we have to pick from, for the remainder of this year. You cannot improve anything by targeting the players, not before the end of the year - it just isn't possible to dump and replace them. So, if what is going on is not acceptable (surely we are agreed on that...), the only change that can be tried is changing the coach.

Sure, there are risks. But there isn't much there at the moment, it's hard to see how it could get worse. And another coach would do it differently, and in theory this could result in a different outcome on match day. Could hardly be worse.

If what is happening is unacceptable, then whatever changes it is what we have to go with.

And perhaps I'd see it differently if Neeld wasn't telling us - and looking like - he has no ideas. Something has got to change.

Please allow me to elaborate on something that won't change from coach to coach.

Fitness

Accountability

Professionalism

Pride

Values

Respect

Competing

Contesting

Team work

Only half a dozen players on our list have these core characteristics.

The rest are not up to AFL standard.

[tonatopia 278]

Jumbo, what a load of rubbish. Let's blame petered and Gysberts and moloney for all our problems.

Jumbo, you have no idea about the importance of top end leadership. It filters down.

Your mentality is sadly reflected by many of our supporters who think change starts at the bottom. This is the easiest form of scapegoating.

With the sacking of schwab, things are heating up. It's just the beginning.

[Josh 1,420]

Rubbish! I agree we were not in the hunt against Essendon. However, against WC we ran round in circles, around the boundary line, and in continual energy sapping rugby style plays. In short, we did not use a sensible game plan when we had a chance to do so. We were never competitive, seriously - the end was just a matter of time.

Are you sure you didn't watch a replay of 2012? There was something to work with this week, last week was sub VFA level

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Jumbo, what a load of rubbish. Let's blame petered and Gysberts and moloney for all our problems.

Jumbo, you have no idea about the importance of top end leadership. It filters down.

Your mentality is sadly reflected by many of our supporters who think change starts at the bottom. This is the easiest form of scapegoating.

With the sacking of schwab, things are heating up. It's just the beginning.

The beginning of what?

Back to basics? I agree.

Weeding out those who refuse to meet expectations? Good, about time.

Eradicating the softness of our players? Let's go!

Recruiting some grunt? About fkn time.

Oh, and you forgot Martin, Morton and Bennell.

[Tatu 416]

If we lose to GWS I will officially lose any interest in this club for the remainder of 2013

what you haven't already.....

[tonatopia 278]

The beginning of what?

Back to basics? I agree.

Weeding out those who refuse to meet expectations? Good, about time.

Eradicating the softness of our players? Let's go!

Recruiting some grunt? About fkn time.

Oh, and you forgot Martin, Morton and Bennell.

You don't get it jumbo, I'm not even talking about players.

I'm talking about the people that appoint the people that select the players. The people who appoint the coaches. The people who decide to play in Darwin. The people who decide tO lose on purpose, the people who buried the findings of the Andrews report, the people who decide to wear white jumpers and the people who think our fragile club can be gambled with by letting an unproven inexperienced coach given a blank cheque to create a new culture and finally the people who Pisa in the face of loyal club champions and subsequently loyal supporters.

I'm talking about a top down cleanout.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

You don't get it jumbo, I'm not even talking about players.

I'm talking about the people that appoint the people that select the players. The people who appoint the coaches. The people who decide to play in Darwin. The people who decide tO lose on purpose, the people who buried the findings of the Andrews report, the people who decide to wear white jumpers and the people who think our fragile club can be gambled with by letting an unproven inexperienced coach given a blank cheque to create a new culture and finally the people who Pisa in the face of loyal club champions and subsequently loyal supporters.

I'm talking about a top down cleanout.

Okay, tonatopia, so now you're saying there will be a Board spill, McLardy will go, all the coaches will be sacked and the AFL will dissolve the Club?

You may be right, but all I know is this. Disclaimer, btw, as I don't have access to the Board or the Andrews report.....

I watch our players jog trot to a contest.

I watch our players refuse to defend and run hard.

I see our players finger point and ask to be traded.

I see a lack of accountability on so many occasions.

I see a lack of so many non negotiable behaviours.

And so many of those that were traded are really killing them at other clubs.

[tonatopia 278]

No jumbo, our club won't be dissolved, it will be reborn, with a competent board and the right coach.

At the moment, everything is stuffed. We need top down change, starting with a new president and board, then go thru the football department and then the players.

[tonatopia 278]

The players don't give stuff because they don't respect the coach. It's not hard to see why.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,387]

Looking on a POSITIVE side. IF we beat the Giants and Carlton lose to West Coast we will for one whole week at least be ahead of Giants and CARLTON on the ladder! Glorious thought don't you think?

[machine11 142]

Watching GWS and GC fly past us at this stage is NOT acceptable. Neeld has to go if we lose next week. Enough of this [censored].

GWS has flowen past us have they? Doesn't look that way to me. Gold Coast have ablett - we don't.

[Biffen 12,947]

The players don't give stuff because they don't respect the coach. It's not hard to see why.

Why, why , why?

I can see this may be true but I don't know why he hasn't got their respect.

is he too tough?

Too robotic?

Too soft?

His oratory is fine, he is sincere, he is thorough and he is serious.

Is this not cool for gen Y?

[Strafford 182]

Why, why , why?

I can see this may be true but I don't know why he hasn't got their respect.

is he too tough?

Too robotic?

Too soft?

His oratory is fine, he is sincere, he is thorough and he is serious.

Is this not cool for gen Y?

Whether it was preconceptions from the outside looking in or being fed views on players by those already at the club he probably took a big stick to the place a bit early. He probably just needed to be a bit more conservative in his first year. I'm not saying the list didn't need a shakeup, because it did and still does, but if he had just waited he could have had a clean break from a few blokes rather than have disgruntled guys not buying in for a season.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

The players don't give stuff because they don't respect the coach. It's not hard to see why.

I have no respect for my boss but I still work to the best of my ability. Ask the question of the players ie Frawley, 'do you want to be here next year'. For those that don't you can play reserves all year. Phil Davis was man enough to put his hand up a couple of years back maybe more should follow his lead.

[P-man 13,366]

GWS has flowen past us have they? Doesn't look that way to me. Gold Coast have ablett - we don't.

Comprehension skills need work. I never said they had gone ahead of us, I said that scenario is not acceptable.

That said, on the evidence of the first 3 weeks, dont be too shocked if the Giants beat us next week. Our average losing margin is 100 points for god's sake.

At the very least I'm expecting a close match. Both teams need to turn games into a scrap to be competitive and are very poor defensively (travesty to say that about Melbourne who not so long ago had one of the better defences going around). I think it will be an even contest with us just having enough to get over the line, but I'm not confident.