Footy Classified Lifts the Lid on Carlton & Richmond's Tanking 2007

[jnrmac 20,309]

The AFL will ignore the Liberatore interview.

I've been informed that the AFL's position is that Libba was investigated at the time and changed his tune by qualifying much of what he said in the interview. The AFL then declared that Carlton was pure as the driven snow and that furthermore, nothing new has come up since to warrant a new investigation. Never mind the stuff in Fevola's book and never mind that there was also an investigation against Melbourne and Bailey that came up with no wrongdoing before the McLean interview.

"Mr McLachlan said if any person came forward with new evidence involving clubs acting in a manner which was prejudicial to the interests of the AFL, the AFL’s integrity department would examine any such evidence."

The trouble with this is that when Liberatore was being investigated, it was generally understood to be an investigation into tanking and not conduct unbecoming or prejudicial to the interests of the AFL. Isn't it time that this aspect is investigated - particularly given that some Carlton people were openly boasting about resting players to avoid their participation in a game they didn't want to win? Was someone leaning on Brett Ratten so that he wouldn't place a tag on Travis Johnstone in the Kreuzer Cup? No, I don't think the AFL wants to know and the heroes in the media who have suddenly gone shtum don't either.

And what about Terry Wallace's admission. That's never been investigated before to my knowledge. Where's the call for an investigation?

So MCQueens evidence was new?? He even recanted it just like Libba "we were never told to lose, it was a vibe" FMD

And wait til the AFL's new keystone gestapo cops get on to Libba. I bet there weren't switched off tape recorders and table thumping and threats of job losses in his first 'interview'

[Redleg 42,052]

It is very hard to justify an appeal to the Courts when you are found Not Guilty of the one thing you are worried about. The Appeal could in the end, even after winning it, lead to further investigations and a reversal of that finding. When all you have been given in the end, is a stupid penalty, as the whole footy world agrees, for a comment by a staffer and a fine that will be paid by the roof body anyway, how the hell can you take it further?

We are not looking stupid in this, the AFL is. Now the calls are for AD's head. What does that tell you?

The only injustice in this whole thing is that other clubs are not being investigated, despite overwhelming evidence.

The "Offsiders" show just said via Whately, that the AFL does not want to and will not take this further, for some hidden reasons. He said the media have been told unlike the Brock/MFC situation, if you want us to investigate go and get the evidence. Whately rubbished this in light of the Brock/MFC investigation and given the Footy Classified segment. A simple comment gets the MFC done over, but for the other clubs blatant admissions by Coaches and Players is ignored and the public/media is told to go and get the evidence. Whately said, investigate like Melbourne and you will get the evidence. The AFL refuses to do so. No integrity at all.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No, they probably value their jobs.

... and their typing fingers.

[dee-luded 2,959]

So MCQueens evidence was new?? He even recanted it just like Libba "we were never told to lose, it was a vibe" FMD

And wait til the AFL's new keystone gestapo cops get on to Libba. I bet there weren't switched off tape recorders and table thumping and threats of job losses in his first 'interview'

Libba's son wasn't recruited at the time libba went public.

He was said to be austracised after his talk.

Libba has since been welcomed back into the fold @ the Dogs.

..... the afl are happy sleeping dogs lie.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

Gerard Whately could be of great assistance in all this.

I hope Vlad is marched out of his seat...soon.

If as reported he did not even read the 800 page document then he has no credibility at all.

This farce along with GWS, GC Suns and all the money they will ultimately waste, whilst the AFL continued to allow Etihad Stadium to be privately owned.

Great record Vlad. Oh i forgot rampant drug use..

[beelzebub 23,390]

Red . I perfectly understand what you say.

Collingwood would have pushed for not only not guilty, but by association no fines. It wouldnt hsve accepted anything ad is their way. O have to admire this. They dont blink. Not only but they push for every thing they desire and get by efforts and unwavering much of it.

I may well be wrong.

We are still the tankers

the only ones to be investigated. Its a joke.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Gerard Whately could be of great assistance in all this.

I hope Vlad is marched out of his seat...soon.

If as reported he did not even read the 800 page document then he has no credibility at all.

This farce along with GWS, GC Suns and all the money they will ultimately waste, whilst the AFL continued to allow Etihad Stadium to be privately owned.

Great record Vlad. Oh i forgot rampant drug use..

WYL, you keep wasting your bullets on the the front man carrying the Flag, & miss shooting the dangerous ones who have their rifles loaded & pointing at us.

forget the flag carrier, & shoot the real culprit that hides behind him.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

WYL, you keep wasting your bullets on the the front man carrying the Flag, & miss shooting the dangerous ones who have their rifles loaded & pointing at us.

forget the flag carrier, & shoot the real culprit that hides behind him.

don't worry. I am well aware of the Rhodes Scholar...Patience. One at a time.

[daisycutter 29,919]

It is very hard to justify an appeal to the Courts when you are found Not Guilty of the one thing you are worried about. The Appeal could in the end, even after winning it, lead to further investigations and a reversal of that finding. When all you have been given in the end, is a stupid penalty, as the whole footy world agrees, for a comment by a staffer and a fine that will be paid by the roof body anyway, how the hell can you take it further?

We are not looking stupid in this, the AFL is. Now the calls are for AD's head. What does that tell you?

The only injustice in this whole thing is that other clubs are not being investigated, despite overwhelming evidence.

The "Offsiders" show just said via Whately, that the AFL does not want to and will not take this further, for some hidden reasons. He said the media have been told unlike the Brock/MFC situation, if you want us to investigate go and get the evidence. Whately rubbished this in light of the Brock/MFC investigation and given the Footy Classified segment. A simple comment gets the MFC done over, but for the other clubs blatant admissions by Coaches and Players is ignored and the public/media is told to go and get the evidence. Whately said, investigate like Melbourne and you will get the evidence. The AFL refuses to do so. No integrity at all.

just because the afl is playing hardball on this issue is NO reason for the media to give up on it and rollover

in fact it should encourage the media to do some digging and keep the issue live

[Guest]

Libba's son wasn't recruited at the time libba went public.

He was said to be austracised after his talk.

Libba has since been welcomed back into the fold @ the Dogs.

..... the afl are happy sleeping dogs lie.

To be fair to the AFL, Libba was ostracized from the Dogs because of his comments about the incumbent David Smorgon led board. His worries about his son getting picked up under the father son rule revolved mostly around that.

[dee-luded 2,959]

don't worry. I am well aware of the Rhodes Scholar...Patience. One at a time.

You don't need to WYL, Vlad is planning his vacation. He's gone... by his own desire.

he just wants to go in an appreciative manner.

Most people will forget about the scourge beneath Vlad, when Vlad goes most people will have their anger quenched...

.... the time is Now, to stop the 7th Panzer Division, into greater AFL heartland...

When a dictator takes over you know what happens.

the troops are gathering & the generals are falling into place, 'Desert Fox' is in charge onfield, & beware of the furore...

the British Lancaster bombers have been badly shot up, & the black & white macedonian army will get the vertigo wobbles, & the indian tiger battalion will implode...

getting the furore out, will be a cat-astrophe.

the time is Nigh.

[wrecka 12]

Long long long time since I have posted anything on Demonland (as opposed to reading most days) but on this subject I feel it is worth a post even if it is shouted down. I like the majority of others here find it reprehensible that we are the only club that has been investigated of tanking. How can we be vilified when it is clear, with evidence to back it up, that at least one other club has engaged in conduct that is "prejudicial to the interests of the AFL".

On this issue the AFL is clearly lacking integrity and transparency.

As much as Whately has advised that the AFL does not want an investigation into this, why must we, the football community not be able to raise our concerns in regards to how our game is being run and ensure investigations and sanctions be applied equally and transparently across the AFL? Why should the Media only report what the AFL want to drip feed them?

The US government has recently created a way for US citizens to raise concerns to the Whitehouse, by way of online petitions. Once a certain number of people (25000 I think) have signed up to the petition, the Whitehouse will then commence a review of the content raised in the petition, the other benefit is that the media picks up the groundswell of support from the public. Now, of course the AFL will never provide the actual vehicle to raise the petition but there are multiple web based petition sites that will allow you to direct the petition to the relevant organisation, in this case the AFL.

From this site alone plus friends and family I think you could raise 2-2.5k signatories, add Melbourne supporters, anyone who doesn't like Carlton (everyone bar Carlton supporters) and supporters who actually care for the game I think you could reach somewhere between 20000-100000 signatories, promote it through social media (facebook, twitter) plus calls and SMS to SEN as well as all TV shows that take viewer input and see how long it takes for the media to reopen their investigations into the subject. Once the media know the public are interested in a story, why would they just let it go with out demanding due diligence from the AFL.

Thoughts?

link to one such petition site

http://www.change.org/en-AU

[dee-luded 2,959]

Long long long time since I have posted anything on Demonland (as opposed to reading most days) but on this subject I feel it is worth a post even if it is shouted down. I like the majority of others here find it reprehensible that we are the only club that has been investigated of tanking. How can we be vilified when it is clear, with evidence to back it up, that at least one other club has engaged in conduct that is "prejudicial to the interests of the AFL".

On this issue the AFL is clearly lacking integrity and transparency.

As much as Whately has advised that the AFL does not want an investigation into this, why must we, the football community not be able to raise our concerns in regards to how our game is being run and ensure investigations and sanctions be applied equally and transparently across the AFL? Why should the Media only report what the AFL want to drip feed them?

The US government has recently created a way for US citizens to raise concerns to the Whitehouse, by way of online petitions. Once a certain number of people (25000 I think) have signed up to the petition, the Whitehouse will then commence a review of the content raised in the petition, the other benefit is that the media picks up the groundswell of support from the public. Now, of course the AFL will never provide the actual vehicle to raise the petition but there are multiple web based petition sites that will allow you to direct the petition to the relevant organisation, in this case the AFL.

From this site alone plus friends and family I think you could raise 2-2.5k signatories, add Melbourne supporters, anyone who doesn't like Carlton (everyone bar Carlton supporters) and supporters who actually care for the game I think you could reach somewhere between 20000-100000 signatories, promote it through social media (facebook, twitter) plus calls and SMS to SEN as well as all TV shows that take viewer input and see how long it takes for the media to reopen there investigations into the subject. Once the media now the public are interested in a story, why would they just let it go with out demanding due diligence from the AFL.

Thoughts?

link to one such petition site

http://www.change.org/en-AU

Welcome wrecka.

I like & agree with your feelings about the lack of AFL integrity & transparency, but whilst I'd like to see others put they're hands up to say they were less than upfront with regard to list management, I think going after them would do the Footy great harm.

But IMO, we should be looking, like the AFL did to us, to oust parts of the AFL Commission, who sat on these sorts of decisions, for a large part, of the past Decade..... and who had much to do with all this charade, & maybe even, in the instigating of it?

This is where I think we can all have a say in the future Integrity of Our game.

[Redleg 42,052]

Red . I perfectly understand what you say.

Collingwood would have pushed for not only not guilty, but by association no fines. It wouldnt hsve accepted anything ad is their way. O have to admire this. They dont blink. Not only but they push for every thing they desire and get by efforts and unwavering much of it.

I may well be wrong.

We are still the tankers

the only ones to be investigated. Its a joke.

Disagree on Collingwood, they would have done exactly the same.

[dworship 3,343]

Me thinks they don't want this lid open.

The next FC on Thursday should be interesting - GL to the Poisonous Female Dog " so what did you make of Jeff's comments regarding the Libba interview?

PFD "I don't know what your talking about Gary, I haven't seen it, and you don't have any credibility in this matter".

[hoopla 418]

I have now spoken to 2 journos on different papers, who feel that the AFL will do what it can to stop a Blues investigation. Maybe a Chairman of the Commission who is a former Blues captain has something to do with it or 360 poker machines, but whatever the reason there IS no integrity in the AFL at the moment.

What is more perplexing is that the press will not even discuss it. It is obviously a no go zone. The question is why and then how it effects their integrity as newspapers.

From the AFL's point of view its a "no go zone" because " fully blown tanking" represents throwing matches - which is a form of match fixing - and hence a threat to gambling revenues.I'm sure this is why AD has always been so keen to say that tanking doesn't exist.( Pity Anderson couldn't get that into his thick skull!)

From the newspapers point of view its probably a " no go zone" because readers are utterly sick of it. The drug bust - and the equalization debate - are today's stories.( unless Wilson finds out that CS ran over his neighbours cat!)

[Carlos Danger 380]

I'm very happy to see the media actually dig a little deeper into this, well actually more shocked than anything.

First thing I thought when the tanking investigation concluded was how about seriously looking into the Libber comments now. His word has more credibility than Brock's and it's actually coming from the coaching staff as opposed to the playing group (which is always kept in the dark in regards to tanking).

If it's deemed appropriate for us to get a $500k fine for being proven innocent of tanking, seems only fair for the winners of the Kreuzer Cup to get the same treatment.

[DEE fence 5,050]

Great episode, for all of those that missed it, I manged to find it on Youtube;

many thanks for this - always appreciate people who post links

[Demonic_Inferno 17]

No old dee.

This AFL is in need of a thorough Spring clean & emptying of the hoarded rubbish their house is full of, including all the old black mailing photos used to pull clubs into their line of thinking.

We need this to move the game forward.

If its not now, it will continue collecting dirt until one day explodes the game like a Hydrogen Bomb.

Clean it now, while we are in the mood to get it done.

Totally.

This bunch of hypocritical pond slime must be held accountable for these events.

[Dr. Mubutu 867]

But IMO, we should be looking, like the AFL did to us, to oust parts of the AFL Commission, who sat on these sorts of decisions, for a large part, of the past Decade..... and who had much to do with all this charade, & maybe even, in the instigating of it?

This is where I think we can all have a say in the future Integrity of Our game.

To be fair, I believe that the guilty party for this coming to a head has already jumped before he was pushed.

[old dee 24,028]

Guys we can all bleat as much as we like.

The footy has started the media has no interest, it is yesterdays news.

All over we have been treated poorly but nothing more will happen.

End of story

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Guys we can all bleat as much as we like.

The footy has started the media has no interest, it is yesterdays news.

All over we have been treated poorly but nothing more will happen.

End of story

Sad but true...

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

I think we've got to understand that the situation has changed since the seemingly incomprehensible verdict and penalty from the tanking investigation.

Demetriou (the AFL) is now our ALLY.

The big problem facing us(and potentially many other clubs) is the Government gaming authorities and their possible extension of the probe into tanking , with a view to penalising MFC for "match-fixing"("tanking") by withdrawing our gaming licence.

The AFL doesn't want this, as much as we don't.

Most clubs(not Kangaroos), earn millions from Pokies. The AFL does not want the investigation to go any further. Carlton and Richmond, (both far more blatantly guilty than MFC), earn far more than the reported $4m. that we get. Who knows how much Ess and Coll. receive , both of whom got high draft picks after inexplicably poor seasons' ends in the early 2000's.?

The AFL will use all its streetwise guile(like the Racing Clubs) to persuade the gaming authorities to turn a blind eye. We need Vlad to use all his underhanded skills to shut this thing down.

That's why poor Gil McLachlan was made to look like such a klutz announcing that MFC were NOT guilty of tanking, but still handing out penalties>(to save AFL face after an ill-advised 6 month probe into tanking.)

Vale Adrian Anderson.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

Do other DEMONLAND readers agree with my view on this?

I'd be interested to know if other,far more learned,posters think I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I haven't read anything about the VCGLR and their enquiry into Melbourne for more than a week.

I hope this means it's going to fade away into nothing.We don't want any more off-field controversies for month after month again.

Perhaps there's another bombshell around the corner.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

JJC it could mean they are conducting a professional investigation without the leaks to the media???