NAB CUP 1: NORTH MELBOURNE AND RICHMOND

[rjay 23,970]

Jack Hannath

Has he played for Freo yet?

Yep, thinking about him too.

Incidentally, Wayne Carey has just said that Watts was "superb" tonight and could be in for an AA season.

Will be a really important player for us this year.

[old dee 22,951]

Jack Hannath

Has he played for Freo yet?

I think he has a serious injury Trenners

[jumbo returns 6,515]

We used to call these games practice matches and they are designed for two purposes;

1. For the coaches to look at the new blood against some opposition

2. For the players to get some dare I say it match practice and get rid of any cobwebs.

Nobody gave two hoots who won so long as the games achieved their purpose.

They still are practice matches and are played for the same purpose.

So why give even one hoot who won?

Neeldy and co now have a pretty good idea of the clubs best 22 so I will comment on all things MFC football wise in April and I will forget I have read the inane ramblings here today and will read for the next few weeks.

Has anyone heard the expression "March champions"?

Plenty of good teams have won the NAB and gone on to have fantastic seasons.

We still have a ways to go.

Edited February 22, 2013 by jumbo returns

[old dee 22,951]

Agree. Only once did he revert and run next to the contest instead of attacking it. Tons of class.

Until we have a cohesive, hard working midfield who can dispose of the ball well we will always be playing catchup

Couch, Jordie, Magner, Rodan, Sylvia (who was particularly poor tonight) are not players you build a midfield around

Our Backs and Forwards will be OK but have to win the clearances

Love Capt Obvious

It is hard to disagree with that fndee

[Little Goffy 12,727]

As I read it, the results from the games were that our opponents kicked one more goal than us in total, in february, when no team was playing at strength.

Anyone cracking the sh1ts now has some personal issues that aren't really anything to do with football.

[wattsup 470]

Jack watts was great kicked2 goals from back line, if he can bob up and snag a goal

A game it's A massive plus I agree he is a massive smoky for AA if he can play every game

[Moonshadow 16,347]

Jack watts was great kicked2 goals from back line, if he can bob up and snag a goal

A game it's A massive plus I agree he is a massive smoky for AA if he can play every game

Apparently, won't be respected until he has played huge finals matches, regardless of whether we play them

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Watts was very good. Hogan makes me very happy. Someone get him a Melbourne based mrs ASAP. Mckenzie looks to handball first and then realises he is clear but shanks the kick. He has to improve. North love to duck the head and get the free. Someone has taught them that no doubt.

No need for panic people.

[Hero1 74]

Oh yeah let's be loser dees supporters and make positive talk out of losing. We need to change our culture. Do any if you remember the 50s and 60s when we were a real team? Currently we are the joke team of the afl. The ONLY thing that will change this is winning games and supporters not being satisfied with anything else.

[frankie_d 1,410]

Remember when we won the pre season cup? The start of a good era. Good sides can afford to experiment and remain cool, crap sides need to improve. As OD says, just another Melbourne side of the last 10 years.

[old dee 22,951]

Oh yeah let's be loser dees supporters and make positive talk out of losing. We need to change our culture. Do any if you remember the 50s and 60s when we were a real team? Currently we are the joke team of the afl. The ONLY thing that will change this is winning games and supporters not being satisfied with anything else.

You have my vote

[Demonsterative 2,038]

I have a few questions that have been worrying me for a while.

I only listened to the Richmond game so i'm happy to be corrected. But i keep thinking, Why is Royal still coaching the midfield? I agree that he has little to work with but the midfield is constantly beaten in defense and attack and we are ALWAYS beaten in the possession count. Most possessions come from the midfield and Royal is constantly out coached by the opposition.

Why isnt Neeld taking a more hands on approach at training. He came to the club as an assistant who developed teams very well. Yes he had Swan and Pendles plus others to work with, but he also has Grimes, Jones, Sylvia and Trengrove etc to work with. I'm only going by the training reports and I hear about Neil Craig taking charge but never the coach (Neeld). I thought Neil Craig was Neelds superior, but it seems Craig is taking a more pro-active approach this pre season.

Maybe at the Pies Malthouse took a director role with his assistants and told them how to teach the midfield, forwards and backs. But Malthouse has decades experience and has learnt how to lead his staff. Neeld has had one BAD year as a senior coach and seems distant in 'Open' training sessions. I would rather Neeld take a MUCH more active role teaching his assistants and his players at the same time. If I am right, its too early for Neeld to play the directing coach role.

I like Rawlings and Brown. IMO they are very astute assistants. My thoughts on why are

Mitch Clark played like he was an elite forward last year. In half the games and probably half the opportunities (the club were pathetic in forward 50 entries) he kicked more goals in a season than he had in a year at the Lions. He was a star. Well done Brown.

Tom McDonald played extremely well at CHB on some very good forwards without a pre-season directly under Rawlings. Rawlings got him going well with limited time. Well done Rawlings

Blease was a dangerous small forward when he got fit

Garland and Rivers had some good games despite never playing forward in their AFL careers. The played above their weight

Nathan Jones had an break out season. BUT, he was always an elite trainer and was always going to stand out due to his Elite fitness lifestyle.

Watts played some very good games at HB with limited training under Rawlings.

Dunn also played some good games at the end of season with limited training under Rawlings.

Some other thoughts

IMO Grimes is potentially a very good midfielder (at least). he hasnt the impact he should have.

Too much emphasis on Trengrove being captain. He was coached to be defensive and only now is he stating he didnt attack the game that made him one of the most potentially dangerous midfielders in the game (Royal HMMMM)

McKenzie is not a modern game midfielder. He can tag but not impact offensively. 10 to 20 yrs ago he would have thrived. He is a waste of a player in the midfield.

At the Hawks Nicholson, McKenzie, Spencer, Bail, Davis, J Mac would not be on there list. Yes, 40 of of our guys would not be on there list, but the named players would not have reached there top 100 draft prospect in any draft as they cant dispose of the ball consistently well

Frawley has gone backwards due to intense pressure as a backman. Chip is a match winner if only he could use his run and carry. Neeld is coaching him into a defense player only and not allowing him to attack. Play TMc at full back as his skills are average and play Chip at CHB to defend and rebound. I dont give a flying **** if TMc has elite endurance. Chip has speed that the backline needs when rebounding

Thats my rant

[stuie 7,374]

Oh yeah let's be loser dees supporters and make positive talk out of losing. We need to change our culture. Do any if you remember the 50s and 60s when we were a real team? Currently we are the joke team of the afl. The ONLY thing that will change this is winning games and supporters not being satisfied with anything else.

The NAB Cup is the joke of the AFL, so just cool your heels cowboy.

[bananas 428]

Just got back, here's my take.

The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages.

In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.)

Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

[stuie 7,374]

Why is Royal still coaching the midfield?

I too have been wondering this, haven't seen an announcement about a new contract, wasn't his last one up at the end of last year?

[Hero1 74]

It should be abolished. Cowgirl.

[stuie 7,374]

Just got back, here's my take.

The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages.

In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.)

Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

Excellent take mate. Reckon you're pretty spot on there especially about Dawes.

[Moonshadow 16,347]

Oh yeah let's be loser dees supporters and make positive talk out of losing. We need to change our culture. Do any if you remember the 50s and 60s when we were a real team? Currently we are the joke team of the afl. The ONLY thing that will change this is winning games and supporters not being satisfied with anything else.

Thank you Captain Obvious...... sorry, Grandpa Captain Obvious.

[stuie 7,374]

It should be abolished. Cowgirl.

We got to see a glimpse of the future in Hogan, it's not all bad hey?

[TRIGON 4,719]

Dunn missed the goal

Point made!

[Fat Tony 4,469]

Our new kids look the goods, particularly Hogan and Toumpas.

Howe is a gun.

Our mature age recruits all look like being journeymen.

Jamar looks past it and the rule change will hurt him.

McKenzie is still too much of a liability.

Tom McDonald is severely overrated on Demonland.

Watts was good in patches, but our backline is too slow with him and Dunn as small backs. IMO he should play on the wing for team balance.

[old dee 22,951]

I have a few questions that have been worrying me for a while.

I only listened to the Richmond game so i'm happy to be corrected. But i keep thinking, Why is Royal still coaching the midfield? I agree that he has little to work with but the midfield is constantly beaten in defense and attack and we are ALWAYS beaten in the possession count. Most possessions come from the midfield and Royal is constantly out coached by the opposition.

Why isnt Neeld taking a more hands on approach at training. He came to the club as an assistant who developed teams very well. Yes he had Swan and Pendles plus others to work with, but he also has Grimes, Jones, Sylvia and Trengrove etc to work with. I'm only going by the training reports and I hear about Neil Craig taking charge but never the coach (Neeld). I thought Neil Craig was Neelds superior, but it seems Craig is taking a more pro-active approach this pre season.

Maybe at the Pies Malthouse took a director role with his assistants and told them how to teach the midfield, forwards and backs. But Malthouse has decades experience and has learnt how to lead his staff. Neeld has had one BAD year as a senior coach and seems distant in 'Open' training sessions. I would rather Neeld take a MUCH more active role teaching his assistants and his players at the same time. If I am right, its too early for Neeld to play the directing coach role.

I like Rawlings and Brown. IMO they are very astute assistants. My thoughts on why are

Mitch Clark played like he was an elite forward last year. In half the games and probably half the opportunities (the club were pathetic in forward 50 entries) he kicked more goals in a season than he had in a year at the Lions. He was a star. Well done Brown.

Tom McDonald played extremely well at CHB on some very good forwards without a pre-season directly under Rawlings. Rawlings got him going well with limited time. Well done Rawlings

Blease was a dangerous small forward when he got fit

Garland and Rivers had some good games despite never playing forward in their AFL careers. The played above their weight

Nathan Jones had an break out season. BUT, he was always an elite trainer and was always going to stand out due to his Elite fitness lifestyle.

Watts played some very good games at HB with limited training under Rawlings.

Dunn also played some good games at the end of season with limited training under Rawlings.

Some other thoughts

IMO Grimes is potentially a very good midfielder (at least). he hasnt the impact he should have.

Too much emphasis on Trengrove being captain. He was coached to be defensive and only now is he stating he didnt attack the game that made him one of the most potentially dangerous midfielders in the game (Royal HMMMM)

McKenzie is not a modern game midfielder. He can tag but not impact offensively. 10 to 20 yrs ago he would have thrived. He is a waste of a player in the midfield.

At the Hawks Nicholson, McKenzie, Spencer, Bail, Davis, J Mac would not be on there list. Yes, 40 of of our guys would not be on there list, but the named players would not have reached there top 100 draft prospect in any draft as they cant dispose of the ball consistently well

Frawley has gone backwards due to intense pressure as a backman. Chip is a match winner if only he could use his run and carry. Neeld is coaching him into a defense player only and not allowing him to attack. Play TMc at full back as his skills are average and play Chip at CHB to defend and rebound. I dont give a flying **** if TMc has elite endurance. Chip has speed that the backline needs when rebounding

Thats my rant

I agree with most of your Rant

Particularly the outlined

[P-man 13,239]

Just got back, here's my take.

The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages.

In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.)

Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

Excellent take. Please post more.

[Hero1 74]

Get watts up forward again where he belongs.

[Moonshadow 16,347]

Just got back, here's my take.

The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages.

In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.)

Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

Thanks Bananas. Great, reasoned comments. You defy your user name.