Not that any of this is really relevant to this tanking thread, but actually in 2000 our team did very well in three pressure finals, (do you forget the stirring fightback against the soon to be perfectionists of tanking?) only to crumble (as did by the way Northey's 1988 team) in the big ones against what were widely acknowledged as the hardest teams of their eras and by far the hottest GF favourites in memory.

Yes we got beat by the team of the Decade then the team of the Century, incredible bad luck but we were never going to win either of them.

Yes we got beat by the team of the Decade then the team of the Century, incredible bad luck but we were never going to win either of them.

Didn't get within 15 goals of either on GF day did we??

Essendon beat us by 60.

Didn't get within 15 goals of either on GF day did we??

Well, actually, we did with one of them.....

Not that it was anything to write home about on the day.

Sorry Tim and Fan - you"re correct of course. But let's stop picking those scabs and get back to arguing.

Or do we need another ill-informed, largely hearsay load of shyte in the little paper or the Age to kick start that?

Didn't get within 15 goals of either on GF day did we??

Sure we were never going to win but we did better than 14 other teams* those years anyway.

Still, it remains irrelevant to a tanking thread.

*some pedant please correct me if there were fewer teams in 1988.

Not that any of this is really relevant to this tanking thread, but actually in 2000 our team did very well in three pressure finals, (do you forget the stirring fightback against the soon to be perfectionists of tanking?) only to crumble (as did by the way Northey's 1988 team) in the big ones against what were widely acknowledged as the hardest teams of their eras and by far the hottest GF favourites in memory.

Yes they certainly were fantastic times, heartbreaking in the end but the ride there was worth it, better than the last 6 years of depression thats been served to us.

During the years 1987-1991 we were a legitimate power team. The only sustained period of dominance since the days of ron barassi crashing packs.

Yes we got beat by the team of the Decade then the team of the Century, incredible bad luck but we were never going to win either of them.

We were lucky to even get runner-up ,lets face it .

Imagine what it would feel like for us to be a sustained success .

Being such a young buck ,it seems to me like a figment of mythology that we ever even won A flag .

I will take it a step further and say I will not vote for anyone other than current board members unless or until those who make political statements on this board identify themselves.

Am I naive as to think that board members don't post here ? I can understand a board member reading these forums to get a feel for what the membership is feeling about different issues but do you think they post and subtly campaign ?

We were lucky to even get runner-up ,lets face it .

Imagine what it would feel like for us to be a sustained success .

Being such a young buck ,it seems to me like a figment of mythology that we ever even won A flag .

I'm not a young buck so I know what it's like to have sustained success and I've seen a couple of Flags so it's no mythology.

It's just the best feeling going to the football every week expecting to win, not hoping but actually expecting. The MCG stands had banners all the way around them those "magnificent dashing demons". We were a power, a real power.

During the years 1987-1991 we were a legitimate power team. The only sustained period of dominance since the days of ron barassi crashing packs.

We were nine tenths the team & culture we needed to be, but still needed to overcome the mental hardship of the old failing brand.

We could have done it apart from coming up against our nemesis, & imo, our footy idols of the time, & the best Hawks team of they're history. 1987 & 1988. We were yet to mature fully, but those two years took its toll on our psyche.

we haven't been as good since, but we've probably had more talented lists in the mid 90's, but not the same mojo. urgency & unity. IMO.

I just learned this afternoon that the AFL was sent a letter from the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation (VCGLR) - http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/utility/home/ - basically saying that if the Demons were found to be 'tanking' then their own integrity rules would 'kick in' and they would act by taking away the clubs liquor and gambling licences for the Oakleigh and Bentleigh establishments.

I know this will be alarming to read but the person who told me this believes that it is the reason behind the AFL going after individuals, as seems to be the case from reports, rather than the club itself.

Losing those licences would be catastrophic for the short term viability of the club and a massive burden on the AFL.

The way I read this - the club will NEVER take a plea bargain that BBP and a few others have mooted. A plea would admit guilt and that will set off a devastating chain of events outlined by the expert who told me this (this person aided in writing the letter).

The possible scenarios are dwindling (assuming the AFL has control of this situation):

1. Individuals sanctioned, club absolved of guilt.

2. Zero sanctions, club answers queries satisfactorily for AFL Commission.

3. AFL mea culpa, all clubs absolved, tightening/narrowing of integrity rules.

3 should happen, 2 is a massive chance to happen (IMO) and 1 is what the AFL thinks is the best way out for them (IMO).

Interesting find rp.

That will be a huge key to all this.

Very interesting take on it.

I just learned this afternoon that the AFL was sent a letter from the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation (VCGLR) - http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/utility/home/ - basically saying that if the Demons were found to be 'tanking' then their own integrity rules would 'kick in' and they would act by taking away the clubs liquor and gambling licences for the Oakleigh and Bentleigh establishments.

I know this will be alarming to read but the person who told me this believes that it is the reason behind the AFL going after individuals, as seems to be the case from reports, rather than the club itself.

Losing those licences would be catastrophic for the short term viability of the club and a massive burden on the AFL.

The way I read this - the club will NEVER take a plea bargain that BBP and a few others have mooted. A plea would admit guilt and that will set off a devastating chain of events outlined by the expert who told me this (this person aided in writing the letter).

The possible scenarios are dwindling (assuming the AFL has control of this situation):

1. Individuals sanctioned, club absolved of guilt.

2. Zero sanctions, club answers queries satisfactorily for AFL Commission.

3. AFL mea culpa, all clubs absolved, tightening/narrowing of integrity rules.

3 should happen, 2 is a massive chance to happen (IMO) and 1 is what the AFL thinks is the best way out for them (IMO).

Very interesting.

I would think it would be pretty hard to separate the club from the individuals particularly when one was the coach, would the gambling commission fall for that? Then when the other clubs get pulled into the mess gambling in the AFL as a whole would have to come into question.

A fine mess they have got themselves in at the AFL, it will be interesting to see how this pans out, the sooner they get to 2 the better.

There will be no charges, no sanctions, no sacrificial lambs.

The AFL cant and never could afford any real penalties.

The 3 ring circus rolls on.

There will be no charges, no sanctions, no sacrificial lambs. The AFL cant and never could afford any real penalties. The 3 ring circus rolls on.

the thing is though even if we are completely exonerated tomorrow, we've already copped a huge blow to our brand and we did not deserve it.. and we would be in the top 3 clubs who LEAST needs such problems. Brock McLean should be strung up.

Shocked , no age exclusive today .....yet

During the years 1987-1991 we were a legitimate power team. The only sustained period of dominance since the days of ron barassi crashing packs.

You better shut up now before the Israelites around here start wailing that we have only been crap for the last 40+ years, yeah we all wish there had been a flag or three, but I reckon we've had two periods where we played good footy (and possibly even had a good culture).

PS: sorry to hijack your point... and yes might even be off topic...

I think that all the gallant posters that railed against hazy and america et al for showing dissent should now line up to pot CC for the same thing. He should simply accept the status quo and shut up. It it time for solidarity REGARDLESS of circumstance.

There were a few posters who "railed" against hazy and America et al for "showing dissent" but many others, myself included, "railed" against them because they were talking crap. Those who did so usually gave reasons for this belief, which was predominantly based on the fact that hazy and America's posts are often made up of agenda based ad hominem attacks without evidence or proof of their allegations.

Consequently, I think your post is way off the mark and gives them far more credibility than they deserve.

No, IMO it's nothing to do with the previous Board which will disappoint Robbie and his band.

I don't think you can dismiss out of hand the possibility that some (not all) of the controversial events surrounding the club over the past 1½ years have been fueled by either former board members or officials with axes to grind against the incumbents and against officials of the club.

Leaking stories to the press is not confined to providing internal information. For example, you didn't need a leak from the current board to know Ian Flack lost his job. From there, it would be easy to mischievously pass on a false story about how the decision to terminate his position was unpopular with the indigenous players at the club and that the coach was treating them differently to the others.

And how easy would it be for someone to set up the club by encouraging a mate in the media to introduce a particular line of questioning in an interview with a disgruntled former player who has a penchant for shooting off at the mouth and who is not all that smart?

Not saying it happened that way in the case of the leaks to which Connolly is apparently referring but rather that there are many ways that disaffected people, formerly associated with a club can "leak" information to the media and often, these people get passed off in stories as "sources close to the club" when in reality, they are nothing of the sort.

I just learned this afternoon that the AFL was sent a letter from the Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation (VCGLR) - http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/utility/home/ - basically saying that if the Demons were found to be 'tanking' then their own integrity rules would 'kick in' and they would act by taking away the clubs liquor and gambling licences for the Oakleigh and Bentleigh establishments.

I know this will be alarming to read but the person who told me this believes that it is the reason behind the AFL going after individuals, as seems to be the case from reports, rather than the club itself.

Losing those licences would be catastrophic for the short term viability of the club and a massive burden on the AFL.

The way I read this - the club will NEVER take a plea bargain that BBP and a few others have mooted. A plea would admit guilt and that will set off a devastating chain of events outlined by the expert who told me this (this person aided in writing the letter).

The possible scenarios are dwindling (assuming the AFL has control of this situation):

1. Individuals sanctioned, club absolved of guilt.

2. Zero sanctions, club answers queries satisfactorily for AFL Commission.

3. AFL mea culpa, all clubs absolved, tightening/narrowing of integrity rules.

3 should happen, 2 is a massive chance to happen (IMO) and 1 is what the AFL thinks is the best way out for them (IMO).

Your going to make the AGE tomorrow mate well done, if we lose those licences this clubs finished.

Im sick to death of this whole saga. I read these articles from the age and feel absolutley no emotion.

Jaded chose a good user name.....

Totally agree.

It's become tedious. Not to mention unprofessional - sings of 'amateur hour'.

Shocked , no age exclusive today .....yet

Yup nothing from the Age.

Interesting article in the Herald Sun from the betting agency perspective about the draft needing to be changed to a lottery to stop rewarding the weak. The guy goes on to say that the AFL created this issue re the Tanking affair with Melbourne.

Nothing we don't already know I guess.