Caroline Wilson's descent into gutter journalism

[Nice&Neitz 5]

I just sit back and wonder who is at fault here?

Us? Maybe.

AFL? Perhaps.

Whoever is at fault doesn't matter to me..but what I absolutely hate and despise to know end is where decisions are made without the understanding of precedence...

Salary cap breaches ? Illegal payments? Drugs ? These all have rules black and white and have existed for some time.

Alleged decisions behind the scenes and on field to lose games may have some evidence from those within the inner sanctum, but where is the breach of rules to discuss club the benefit a priority pick would give a team in desperate need of high quality talent? Have the AFL investigated all other tanking associations with the alleged Kreuzer Cup debacle? Hawks and Pies form slumps? Have the AFL investigated other meetings within that time period for any other clubs?

Whilst I have no doubt we didn't exactly want to win games with a priority pick in sight, I can't stomach that decisions will be made based without precedence...

All I know is that the AFL need to tread carefully...with the risk of looking like a clown show rife contradiction..

And we obviously need to focus on ensuring its fans are respected...and we are going to games where we can genuinely be proud and respect the club we love so dear...

In my opinion all the above is a bi product of the AFL's procedures in place...priority picks reward mediocrity....but there is always going to be scenario's where clubs in dire need of assistance are going to try and work the system to benefit the club...

Bring a lottery to the draft....and we can then avoid any alleged actions directed at any club..

[Striker475 696]

Seriously worried here about the future of the club.

AFL may sanction us. But the real ones that will nail us are the State Government if there's enough political pressure. They'll take the club to the cleaners, and damn the consequences for the organisation.

Big can of worms, this.

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

Seriously less worried now, Caro's piece about players making a statement at 3/4 time of the Richmond game that they were still going to try and win, screams of absolute shyte.

and give me strength please an unamed player - everyone knew, no worries so why has nothing come out FFS players talk it would have come out prior to misquoted comments from past players

The integrity of the investigators is certainly at question with such a supposed leak

[Red Demon 67]

I wish people would stop with the "well if we get done, the AFL have to go after Carlton / Collingwood / Richmond" etc; or "we weren't the only ones who were tanking".

What do people not get? It seems we were stupid enough to have a ****ing meeting! And people who were close to the club are speaking out about it. I'm sure other clubs have tanked before us and clubs will tank again, but there seems to be solid evidence out there that we did. That's what the AFL will go after.

And save the journalist hate - it's not Wilson's, or Clark's, or Barrett's fault etc, that this has come out.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Red Demon

[H_T 2,941]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/second-melbourne-player-comes-forward-to-reveal-coach-dean-bailey-was-under-pressure-to-lose-matches/story-fndv7pj3-1226506978308

[Spaghetti 264]

I cannot fathom how the MFC (or whoever gave the directive to tank) could possibly think they could keep a meeting secret when 10+ people were present. A meeting between 1-3 people can be easily kept secret, covered up, or denied. But 10 people?! How do these people have a job in football?! Considering how much information gets leaked from football clubs - how could they have thought a room of coaching staff (that are likely to have short stays at the club) would remain silent?

No one (including the AFL) would deny other clubs have been involved in identical tanking behaviour... but it sickens me that the club would be so amateur in failing to cover their tracks.

[darkhorse72 1,735]

While those articles are primarily aimed at us, they are now talking about Libber and fev statements of their tanking...how they tanked more obviously than us. So we may and hopefully see the media drag in carltank which leaves the afl in an interesting place.

And if players had been instructed to lose, we would have heard about it long before now. As players aren't that smart and such gossip spreads quickly, especially given the attention form the media, and the fact it was not mentioned before boofhead's comments, then I'll say it wasn't

instructed to the players.

As for the meeting, who knows. It may have been...there are x games left we are heading for a priority pick, what games do you think we can win? The question is what was discussed after that...was it a formal meeting or at the water cooler meeting and just thoughts.

Given we leak like the titanic any such "secret" meetings would have been out also long before now.

[What 18,810]

Fremantle fans were right about Connolly and Schwab.

Two parasites of this highest order. I am absolutely appalled that we just re-signed Schwab.

Disgusting.

[olisik 4,060]

Seriously worried here about the future of the club.

AFL may sanction us. But the real ones that will nail us are the State Government if there's enough political pressure. They'll take the club to the cleaners, and damn the consequences for the organisation.

Big can of worms, this.

State Government would not want to nail the MFC. The State Government is proud of Victoria of being the sporting capital of the country.

I highly doubt that they would scrutinise the biggest game in the country by nailing the oldest club with the most history.

[stuie 7,374]

http://www.news.com....3-1226506978308

Hopefully Demetriou understand what tanking actually is better than most seem to at the moment..

From the article: "Players were never told to lose. They were just rested and played out of position. (Backman) Matthew Warnock would play full-forward and (forward) Paul Johnson would play full-back."

"Never told to lose".... ie: We didn't "tank".

[Spaghetti 264]

State Government would not want to nail the MFC. The State Government is proud of Victoria of being the sporting capital of the country.

I highly doubt that they would scrutinise the biggest game in the country by nailing the oldest club with the most history.

They would if the case against us was strong enough. Or if there was votes in it.

However sanctions by the AFL is not evidence of match fixing.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Stylus

[Striker475 696]

Angry email regarding 'those involved in the decision to lose games' sent.

[rjay 23,922]

I cannot fathom how the MFC (or whoever gave the directive to tank) could possibly think they could keep a meeting secret when 10+ people were present. A meeting between 1-3 people can be easily kept secret, covered up, or denied. But 10 people?! How do these people have a job in football?! Considering how much information gets leaked from football clubs - how could they have thought a room of coaching staff (that are likely to have short stays at the club) would remain silent?

No one (including the AFL) would deny other clubs have been involved in identical tanking behaviour... but it sickens me that the club would be so amateur in failing to cover their tracks.

If true, and it is now more likely than not then I couldn't agree with you more. In the words of my old man "when more than one person knows it's no longer a secret". 10 or more is just plain dumb.

They would if the case against us was strong enough. Or if there was votes in it.

However sanctions by the AFL is not evidence of match fixing.

They need all the votes they can get, looks like their internal polling company will be working overtime on this. If there are votes in it they will come out swinging like true pollies.

[rjay 23,922]

http://www.news.com....3-1226506978308

The board took sides; when kiddies fight they both get sent to their rooms. Both sides of this fight should have been sacked immediately, then at least we could have moved on. So bloody angry about this mess that should have been sorted out in 2011.

[bing181 8,169]

Fremantle fans were right about Connolly and Schwab.

Two parasites of this highest order. I am absolutely appalled that we just re-signed Schwab.

Disgusting.

But why? Schwabb (and presumably Connolly) must have realized that the direction the FD was headed was taking us nowhere. Everything that's emerged since ... that the players were effectively coaching themselves, that the levels of fitness were way under what was required, etc. etc. OK, not the job of the Admin to interfere in FD matters. But if they were in fact working to make changes and even get rid of Bailey, surely they were doing the right thing in putting the club first, as opposed to sitting on their hands and doing nothing?

[McQueen 17,864]

If we had finished in the top 4 this year and looked threatening then I could probably live with some level of disciplinary action handed down from the AFL. The NRL Storm situation comes to mind.

Facts are we have not played finals footy since 06 and we are still way off the pace after [censored] up 99% of our alledgedly tanked for draft selections and gone backwards from an overly offensive game plan implemented by an ordinary coach who was too soft on the playing group.

I think the best outcome for both the MFC and the AFL in this situation is to have a major spill of senior heads. For the club to be kicked again after what is arguably one of our toughest seasons ever would be devastating for the players and supporters.

I reckon Gillon McLachlin made the right decision to stay on at the AFL because AD will be down the road by the time all this concludes.

[Striker475 696]

But why? Schwabb (and presumably Connolly) must have realized that the direction the FD was headed was taking us nowhere. Everything that's emerged since ... that the players were effectively coaching themselves, that the levels of fitness were way under what was required, etc. etc. OK, not the job of the Admin to interfere in FD matters. But if they were in fact working to make changes and even get rid of Bailey, surely they were doing the right thing in putting the club first, as opposed to sitting on their hands and doing nothing?

Connolly was in the FD still at that point, remember. And Schwab presumably was still interfering. Perhaps it was their grand scheme that they were focussing on rather than the other crap?

[rjay 23,922]

If we had finished in the top 4 this year and looked threatening then I could probably live with some level of disciplinary action handed down from the AFL. The NRL Storm situation comes to mind.

Facts are we have not played finals footy since 06 and we are still way off the pace after [censored] up 99% of our alledgedly tanked for draft selections and gone backwards from an overly offensive game plan implemented by an ordinary coach who was too soft on the playing group.

I think the best outcome for both the MFC and the AFL in this situation is to have a major spill of senior heads. For the club to be kicked again after what is arguably one of our toughest seasons ever would be devastating for the players and supporters.

I reckon Gillon McLachlin made the right decision to stay on at the AFL because AD will be down the road by the time all this concludes.

...as much as most won't like it the AFL may well need to appoint someone to oversee the club and that may well be Gillon as a mentor to some new blood. My preference is Cook, maybe it's another challenge he would relish to rebuild the MFC and he would have the AFL stamp of approval. This does presuppose that the MFC is important to the competition.

The AFL will need to be seen as proactive and if we are to avoid tough sanctions then this may be the answer. From my point of view we can't go on as we are with the bad blood that seems to still be attached to the club.

[bing181 8,169]

Angry email regarding 'those involved in the decision to lose games' sent.

Come on, every club, administrator, athlete in every sport pushes the boundaries to try and get a leg up on the competition. The club was only doing what other clubs were (in various guises) in trying to get the best out of a set of rules that were wide open for manipulation.

Look at what GWS have done with the draft and U17 picks - the way they've used them is NOT in keeping with what they were designed to achieve (i.e., on-trade to bring in experienced players and "stars"). Look at what's happened with Adelaide and Tippett. Look at the criticism of MFC for taking Byrnes under FA - now that everyone suddenly realises that you're better off NOT getting players in under FA, rather waiting for them to be delisted - which goes completely against what FA was designed to achieve. Look at even what happened with Viney, where there has obviously been a 3 way deal so that GWS get 1, 2, 3, and the Suns were effectively offered a "sweetener" by GWS to not take Jack.

Not to mention in regard to Viney, the number of posters who came on here and proposed (seriously) any number of dodgy and even blatantly illegal schemes to make sure we got him in the second round.

Human nature. Like most of us here, I'd be disappointed if the Dees weren't looking to get the most benefit for the club out of every scenario, whatever it is.

[Frenzy Mckenzie 61]

What will be interesting is to see how the AFL defines the line between players not being told to loose and coaches deliberately making suspect calls. This ''meeting" might have occurred, but if the actual instruction to the players on game day was to win then the rest is just conjecture. Any half competent barrister should be able to put forward a fairly comprehensive defense if it comes down to that.

Still, I think it's now pretty clear this was the major factor that caused the rift between FD and admin during the latter stages of baileys tenure - very poorly managed to let the players get involved also.

[DEMON FROM WITHIN 46]

This is going to get very ugly for the Demons we will be strung up big time

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

If we are going to become undone it is because of this bloody "Vault" idea.

10 people entrusted with damning information. Any halfwit knows that is not a good idea!

It is just so damn hard supporting this club! Shite performances on field, an absolute rabble off it. Seriously, how much more [censored] are we going to be dragged through until next season starts. And even after that, what surprises are in store for us next year.

I just want some normality in my supporter experience, so much stress and drama all the time!

Maybe we do need a [censored] board clean out and a fresh start. It's getting beyond a joke now and every few seconds we are embroiled in another controversy. I'm not saying it's all anyone in partiular's fault but there is no denying that the way we as a football club are being managed is farcical to say the least!

Seriously getting over this, I can understand how some people can be close to a tipping point!

[w00dy 146]

I believe that Caro based her story after coming across the agenda papers from the Vault meeting. See attached pdf for more info, or for ease of consumption i've copied the text for this post.

MELBOURNEfc AGENDA

The Vault

29 July, 2009

10:00 – 12.00 A.M.

Meeting called by Cameron Schwab

Present

Cameron Schwab (chair), Chris Connolly, Dean Bailey, Barry Predergast, Josh Mahoney , Scott West, Sean Wellman, Tim Harrington.

Apologies

Jim Stynes, James McDonald

1. Welcome – anecdote about the time we got [censored] before the 1987 pre-season cup opener, which cost us the game. Those were the days… Chris

2. PowerPoint Presentation – Matchups for losing Dean

3. Whiteboard Wednesday – The Priority Pick Explained Cameron

4.Discussion – how to tank at the national draft Barry

5.Other Business Cameron

AGENDA.pdf

Edited October 30, 2012 by vanlo

[Real Demon 232]

What an absolute circus.....................egotistical, self absorbed f**kwits who have again put the future of the club in jeopardy.

Absolutely furious at this whole episode, and to simply blame the AFL, journos, former staff, Bailey etc is letting those managing the club off far too easily!

That an idea to deliberately lose matches was first of all raised, and then adopted as a strategy defies belief in the first place, but to then consider an extra early draft pick as some magic bullet for success shows the complete ineptitude and imcompetence of those in charge.

Screw Carlton, Collingwood, and any other club considered to have tanked..................I don't care what they do.

This is about what the MFC has done...........................I want this investigated thoroughly, and those responsible outted, and run out of football.

If a football club charged with the simple responsibility of winning games of football and representing their members and supporters to the utmost of their ability can't even come to terms with and execute that most basic of tasks, then what hope do we have!

[P-man 13,224]

Seriously less worried now, Caro's piece about players making a statement at 3/4 time of the Richmond game that they were still going to try and win, screams of absolute shyte.

This is what stuck out to me also, the inference being that for the first three quarters at least, the players themselves were not trying to win the match. Whether under instruction or not, this is placing blame on the players, in addition to coaches and administrators.

Accusations of experimentation and questionable positional changes is one thing, but implying players did not give their all on a footy field is as offensive as it gets.

Caro's entire reputation (what is left of it) hinges on how this pans out.