Swans' 'Culture'

[H_T 3,047]

Culture has a lot of input into circumstances...

[dee-luded 2,959]

Media covers everything...Twitter, Fango, Facebook, it was all over these media....I have a realistic outlook on life....seen enough of it to realise that the values that exist today are very different from the past

Also as Free Agency is going to prove the dollar will beat any "culture" hands down

..I also know that it is just footy......22 blokes playing another 22 blokes, all 44 want to win desperately....it is just circumstances that decide which 22 does win....nothing to do with this so called culture.....

Theres so much more to life you haven't seemed to have discovered. I feel sorry for you.

You sound so, just matter of fact.

[P-man 13,366]

I also know that it is just footy......22 blokes playing another 22 blokes, all 44 want to win desperately....it is just circumstances that decide which 22 does win....nothing to do with this so called culture.....

Taking the [censored]..?

Surely you're not disputing that the more unified the team, the more competitive they become.

This largely boils down to the culture of the club.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Years ago Leigh Colbert walked out on the cats and went to North, one reason given was the culture of the club in the late '90s or when it was. Geelong's young players were offended by this and vowed to change the club.

The culture of Kardinia park changed enormously, the players played for each other, cleaned up their lifestyles and enforced team rules strictly. The culture at a club can effect many things, like the lifestyles led by the players, like how they dedicate themselves to training, like how desperately players throw themselves into 2nd and 3rd efforts - desperate not to let their mates down.

All 44players in a game may be desperate to win, but a club with the right culture will find their players are a bit more desperate.

As an aside, when we belted the Swans a few years back, how many of their players walked off giggling like school kids?

[H_T 3,047]

Or when we led Hawthorn at half-time in 2010 early in the season under Bailey after a pretty good second quarter. I recall the likes of a couple of senior players high fiving, laughing and giggling on the way off at half time. Hawthorn came out and kicked ~10 (may have been 11) in the third. We got smashed.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

The Swans have awesome beards, that's a culture I want to be a part of.

But seriously, all clubs have their own culture, the Swans are at the top. When people like Kirk, Goodes, Bolton... even Gary Lyon, Mick Malthouse and Cameron Ling talk about the Swans culture, they're clearly not just feeding some BS to the media. It exists now, it has for a while and it will for who knows how long. 30 years ago means nothing. It's the examples you live by now that matter.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

The Swans have awesome beards, that's a culture I want to be a part of.

But seriously, all clubs have their own culture, the Swans are at the top. When people like Kirk, Goodes, Bolton... even Gary Lyon, Mick Malthouse and Cameron Ling talk about the Swans culture, they're clearly not just feeding some BS to the media. It exists now, it has for a while and it will for who knows how long. 30 years ago means nothing. It's the examples you live by now that matter.

interesting comments. I think back to 186 & am concerned that people working for the club at that time are still holding high positions.

Should they still be there??

The Board & Ceo positions are all under the microscope next year, in my eyes at least.

Edited October 2, 2012 by why you little

[satyricon 267]

So what we need to do to be successful is develop a culture, nurture the players like growing a culture in a laboratory, keeping them warm and fuzzy, expose them to a bit of culture like opera or modernist painting, to keep them on the straight and narrow during their down time, of course we have to be careful to avoid culture shock....and then to top it off get them to read Immanuel Kant before they enter the field of play.....to kick a piece of leather around for a couple of hours

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

So what we need to do to be successful is develop a culture, nurture the players like growing a culture in a laboratory, keeping them warm and fuzzy, expose them to a bit of culture like opera or modernist painting, to keep them on the straight and narrow during their down time, of course we have to be careful to avoid culture shock....and then to top it off get them to read Immanuel Kant before they enter the field of play.....to kick a piece of leather around for a couple of hours

I stand by me first line....

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

So what we need to do to be successful is develop a culture, nurture the players like growing a culture in a laboratory, keeping them warm and fuzzy, expose them to a bit of culture like opera or modernist painting, to keep them on the straight and narrow during their down time, of course we have to be careful to avoid culture shock....and then to top it off get them to read Immanuel Kant before they enter the field of play.....to kick a piece of leather around for a couple of hours

Do you actually understand what we're talking about? Culture is the environment and expectations that exist at the club, I can't see how it is so difficult to understand.

BTW Nietzsche would be better - nothing in life worth anything comes without struggle.

[H_T 3,047]

Do you actually understand what we're talking about? Culture is the environment and expectations that exist at the club, I can't see how it is so difficult to understand.

BTW Nietzsche would be better - nothing in life worth anything comes without struggle.

Just let satyricon believe its 22 v 22 and the circumstances during the game. Saves time and effort.

[IRW 1,387]

interesting comments. I think back to 186 & am concerned that people working for the club at that time are still holding high positions.

Should they still be there??

The Board & Ceo positions are all under the microscope next year, in my eyes at least.

i reckon you've hit the nail on the head there.

CC and CS undoubtably have skill sets,the Board members may well be good businessmen but they contributed to the 186 as surely as the senior players.

Blaming Bailey, and now Beamer, is just pathetic scapegoating and more heads need to roll.

At present all the attention is being focused on the new coach while the back room sails along as before.

[P-man 13,366]

Do you actually understand what we're talking about? Culture is the environment and expectations that exist at the club, I can't see how it is so difficult to understand.

BTW Nietzsche would be better - nothing in life worth anything comes without struggle.

Besides which, Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable,

..and we've just shown Beamer the door.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Years ago Leigh Colbert walked out on the cats and went to North, one reason given was the culture of the club in the late '90s or when it was. Geelong's young players were offended by this and vowed to change the club.

The culture of Kardinia park changed enormously, the players played for each other, cleaned up their lifestyles and enforced team rules strictly. The culture at a club can effect many things, like the lifestyles led by the players, like how they dedicate themselves to training, like how desperately players throw themselves into 2nd and 3rd efforts - desperate not to let their mates down.

All 44players in a game may be desperate to win, but a club with the right culture will find their players are a bit more desperate.

As an aside, when we belted the Swans a few years back, how many of their players walked off giggling like school kids?

Thats right & more...

Who would you back in a skirmish, mercenary soldiers or soldiers defending they're homeland & loved ones.

How did our diggers go in the face of insurmountable odds, in the mountains of Japan, & thru Sth Est Asia?

The emotions have to be behind the effort, and our relationships to everything we love is the most powerful motivating force.

[IRW 1,387]

Thats right & more...

Who would you back in a skirmish, mercenary soldiers or soldiers defending they're homeland & loved ones.

How did our diggers go in the face of insurmountable odds, in the mountains of Japan, & thru Sth Est Asia?

The emotions have to be behind the effort, and our relationships to everything we love is the most powerful motivating force.

'our' diggers went down witjout a trace in the mountains of Japan I reckon

.Certainly I didnt hear about them

[IRW 1,387]

Besides which, Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable,

..and we've just shown Beamer the door.

I put in a vote for Lord Buddha who said everything changes ,its hard/impossible to nail down anything tangible in compounded phenomona (like footy clubs) and besides in the end everything is in the nature of suffering/unsatisfactoriness.

[dee-luded 2,959]

'our' diggers went down witjout a trace in the mountains of Japan I reckon

.Certainly I didnt hear about them

The point is we stopped the Japanese empire. They didn't takeover our lands. The diggers fought tooth & nail & held them out. Many quarters were lost & many soldier lost.

Across all the fronts collectively we stopped them.

But the battle was Won, achieved thru guts & camaraderie.

My father was hit & cutup by artillery shrapnel . He hated Wars & would never talk it up, or talk about it.

The point is the pacific was saved against overwhelming odds thru sheer guts, & lives.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

i reckon you've hit the nail on the head there.

CC and CS undoubtably have skill sets,the Board members may well be good businessmen but they contributed to the 186 as surely as the senior players.

Blaming Bailey, and now Beamer, is just pathetic scapegoating and more heads need to roll.

At present all the attention is being focused on the new coach while the back room sails along as before.

exactly. I am glad i am not alone in this.

It is not personal. But the CLUB has suffered long enough.

[satyricon 267]

Do you actually understand what we're talking about? Culture is the environment and expectations that exist at the club, I can't see how it is so difficult to understand.

BTW Nietzsche would be better - nothing in life worth anything comes without struggle.

It is something footy commentators, coaches, supporters etc like to think exists at a successful club, I understand perfectly what you are all trying to say, including WYL when he actually says something worthwhile and takes of the hairshirt, but it is a game of footy, every single AFL player wants to win.......every member of a Club wants to win.....that is the culture.....if you are good enough you will win........the most skilful, fittest, role playing well coached team with a good game plan to negate the opposition will win....that is why Sydney won....not culture......of course it is easy for posters on here to just demean anybody that doesn;t agree with them, and saves them putting forward their own arguement

Edited October 2, 2012 by satyricon

[dee-luded 2,959]

It is something footy commentators, coaches, supporters etc like to think exists at a successful club, I understand perfectly what you are all trying to say, including WYL when he actually says something worthwhile and takes of the hairshirt, but it is a game of footy, every single AFL player wants to win.......every member of a Club wants to win.....that is the culture.....if you are good enough you will win........the most skilful, fittest, role playing well coached team with a good game plan to negate the opposition will win....that is why Sydney won....not culture......of course it is easy for posters on here to just demean anybody that doesn;t agree with them, and saves them putting forward their own arguement

Every player has his pull up point where self preservation takes over. Every player has his stopping point. And they have they're give in point.

A strong culture built around all the great community ideals creates a bond of support for one another that not all clubs have. Those without it are behind the 8 ball.

The Hawks where the most talented, even if less mature side. The Swans were the harder workers & more unified.

[Hannibal 5,814]

The team isn't the culture, the community/club is the culture, good or bad. What the the Club as a whole stands for. This is what feeds the desire to fight. And the Team Ethos & disciplines grow out of that.

We aren't a 'Club', we're an organisation! There's the failure.

At least you understand that culture isn't simply a buzz word, but a set of standards and behaviors that are consistently and vigorously endorsed and protected. Satyricon seems to think that you just go out and play and give your all. If only it was so simple. When you have 40 players on a list and ages that can vary by up to 15 years (or more) you need a stringent set of standards and behaviours that are driven by your leadership group. And much thought goes into those values and behaviours.

Where you get it wrong - continuously, is that you don't understand that the culture of a club is determined by your players and in particular your leadership group. I've argued this point with you so often I know it falls on deaf ears, but even on Monday night's final episode of AFL 360 Bomber Thompson and Eade were both asked who set the culture at a club, i.e. was it the coaches, or the players, and in unison they answered that it was definitely the players. I know you'll wax on that it comes from the President all the way down to the receptionist and boot studder. But you're wrong. It's the players and in particular the leadership group.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[dpositive 1,665]

At least you understand that culture isn't simply a buzz word, but a set of standards and behaviors that are consistently and vigorously endorsed and protected. Satyricon seems to think that you just go out and play and give your all. If only it was so simple. When you have 40 players on a list and ages that can vary by up to 15 years (or more) you need a stringent set of standards and behaviours that are driven by your leadership group. And much thought goes into those values and behaviours.

Where you get it wrong - continuously, is that you don't understand that the culture of a club is determined by your players and in particular your leadership group. I've argued this point with you so often I know it falls on deaf ears, but even on Monday night's final episode of AFL 360 Bomber Thompson and Eade were both asked who set the culture at a club, i.e. was it the coaches, or the players, and in unison they answered that it was definitely the players. I know you'll wax on that it comes from the President all the way down to the receptionist and boot studder. But you're wrong. It's the players and in particular the leadership group.

The players are the cutting edge, the visible display point of the culture. They may set (determine) the culture if allowed by all other members of the community.

The culture that the players exhibited around 186 was deemed not acceptable.

We may have erred in not defining, describing, the culture we demand.

The club does with its appointment, endorsement of Neeld seem to be defining the culture it is establishing as it does with its Blazers. I have posted before that the culture probably has been identified by the club administrators (it may be an advantage to have it more clearly and often displayed) and is flowing through to the players, the supporters probably need to see some success to also embrace that culture.

Once we have all "bought in" it will seem odd that we could not recognise it so easily.

I would like to see the culture that the current players of Melbourne determine. It will be interesting how closely it resembles the many other club cultures or the culture that MFC players displayed during the halcyon years. Perhaps we may all accept it.

I do despair that a culture could be determined by a disparate group of 20 odd year olds with limited exposure to the diversity and depth of life experiences. I hope they are well guided .

I would hope that your views on the culture that we require are considered as much as the players.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

It is something footy commentators, coaches, supporters etc like to think exists at a successful club, I understand perfectly what you are all trying to say, including WYL when he actually says something worthwhile and takes of the hairshirt, but it is a game of footy, every single AFL player wants to win.......every member of a Club wants to win.....that is the culture.....if you are good enough you will win........the most skilful, fittest, role playing well coached team with a good game plan to negate the opposition will win....that is why Sydney won....not culture......of course it is easy for posters on here to just demean anybody that doesn;t agree with them, and saves them putting forward their own arguement

Of course every player wants to win the difference is in what they are willing to do to get there. What are they willing to sacrifice to achieve it. How hard are they willing to work for it. The environment of the club (which as BH rightly points out is set by the players/LG) sets the expectations for this which is what helps to define the culture.

There is a difference between the players and clubs that want to win and the ones that have to win.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[deejammin' 2,370]

Here we go again....

Every club will have a unique circumstance driven by their different location, the different people who make up the football club, the attitude of the playing group, the stereotype given to the supporters etc. The argument here is that these circumstances drive results, I would argue that if it contributes it is in a very small, hardly meaningful way. This "Bloods culture" as elaborated in Micky O's book and espoused by the media has far less to do with their results than having more talented players, good fitness as a result of an elite sports science division, great coaching and being able to keep all needed players, bid on NQR's and be active in Trade week due to the extra million in their salary cap.

If you seriously think that this elusive 'culture' is anything but a buzzword for success then answer me this;

What happened to the 'Bloods Culture' in 2009? Did it suddenly wane, maybe Roosy forgot about it?

What about in rounds 20, 22 and 23? Did the culture suddenly get worse for three rounds resulting in some bad losses?

Would Gunsten and Franklin kicking more accurately in the Grand Final have anything to do with culture? Were the Hawks not playing as a unified team?

Did WC have a good culture in 2006? Collingwood in 2010? St Kilda in 09/10? These clubs seemingly did well in the face of off-field turmoil.

Can you have a good culture and not be winning?

Edited October 3, 2012 by deejammin'

[H_T 3,047]

It is something footy commentators, coaches, supporters etc like to think exists at a successful club, I understand perfectly what you are all trying to say, including WYL when he actually says something worthwhile and takes of the hairshirt, but it is a game of footy, every single AFL player wants to win.......every member of a Club wants to win.....that is the culture.....if you are good enough you will win........the most skilful, fittest, role playing well coached team with a good game plan to negate the opposition will win....that is why Sydney won....not culture......of course it is easy for posters on here to just demean anybody that doesn;t agree with them, and saves them putting forward their own arguement

Sydney won because of the attitude and effort standards they set. They train to high standards, play to high standards, they have non negotiables set by the LG, they pride themselves (the playing group) on being there for each other, being the best they can, and it is displayed like that on the field. This is their culture - it never guarantees a win, but it puts them in the best position to perform well week in week out.

Other teams have their own standards and as good cultures like the Hawks and Pies. But when it comes down to it, week in week out, the level of consistency of being in the game and competitive and winning is superior to nearly all other clubs. And it is admired. They have a terrific level of work ethic for each other, it's what separates the recognition of those who have it in spades and those who are inferior in standards.

Fans and commentators recognise it because it exists, it's out there on display. They become the most skillful, fittest, role playing coached team, because of the standards set by the FD and playing group (LG) that make it a terrific environment to thrive and learn in. That in a nutshell is it.

There are many player examples that have moved to Sydney and thrived, improved their game significantly in doing their specific role for the team, once given the chance.

It's about high performance, professionalism, doing the right things often and avoiding situations that can bring performance/ players down. And developing a winning mentality and sustaining success over a long period.

Do you disagree?