Casey Scorpions v Williamstown

[Whispering_Jack 28,023]

First of all, thanks to KC for his sterling efforts covering Casey from some of those cold windswept venues throughout the year.

Secondly, I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that there's a critical mass of AFL players required to field a successful VFL finals team. The number you need is IMO an absolute minimum of 10 which is the number available a few weeks ago when it was announced who was eligible for the finals.

Today, Casey had six Demons with Sheahan and Gysberts the only ones getting in the best players. I thought Davis was just reasonable and the other three had below par days. Tom Couch has been terrific all season but was well covered today. Josh Tynan just went and Lucas Cook was disappointing. The four players missing - Jake Spencer, Jack Fitzpatrick, Michael Evans and Leigh Williams would probably made the difference had they been available. Casey also missed a few of their more experienced players in McGough, Lees and Fieldsend (although the latter appears to be on the outer).

Of course, it didn't help that they lost Matthews and ruckman Hill to injury or that they badly turned the ball over kicking backwards a few times which was a disaster in a low scoring game.

Still, it's been a good year for Casey because they didn't recruit any names and relied solely on the limited number of MFC players available and local talent coming up through the ranks. It's a job that's been really well done by Brett Lovett.

I'm glad Mark Neeld set the record straight on Gysberts and Cook but I suspect that Cook might be gone. Gysberts plugged away and I wouldn't write him off yet but I won't be surprised if he features in the trades.

The highlight of the year at Casey for mine has been Jai Sheahan. He was highly touted in some quarters before last year's draft and missed out. He was rookied in the middle of that draft in December and I've been impressed by him every time I've seen him a Casey. He had a bit of a slump in mid season but he's come good again and I think that along with Rory Taggert, he could be the find of our draft.

[tonatopia 278]

Both been put in for post-season operations. Fitzy knew he was going in weeks ago and would take no part in the Casey finals.

Ridiculous.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The VFL is essentially a development league. While Casey is aligned with the Dees their role is to develop Dees listed players and to provide VFL opportunities to talented young players from the outer south east of Melbourne.

I doubt Casey can survive as a stand alone VFL team. Their only viable future is as Dees and aligned VFL team with all footy appointments and recruiting decisions approved by the Dees. If there is resistance to that by people involved with Casey then we have to bite the bullet and fund our own standalone VFL team. And Casey can chance their arm as a standalone team.

We cannot compromise the development of our young players.

No, it's not, & it never has been.

Just because the AFL clubs have made arrangements to Join the VFL comp, & are now abusing this competition, is an indictment on the AFL.

If we were back playing, without 'The Flood', 'The Press', & 'The Sliding Press', & other tactics which Have grown into our game due a combination of the Interchange Bench X Sports Science & Professionals full time work on they're fitness.

IF we had less rotations thru a reduced interchange bench, designed to undo the ability to run all the way forward,,, then all the way back again, then rush the bench for a breather before returning to press again... we would get back to footy, & then less strategies, & more matchups & better old fashioned footy.

This IMO would cause these teams losing VFL games for so called development reasons, (learning the current clubs structures & tactics, playbooks etc) to just focus on getting better, bigger, & stronger with traditional football.

You don't have to sacrifice VFL games to do the old fashioned way of footy, whilst developing. The old object used to be to WIN. And Learn to WIN.

[picket fence 15,366]

I have no malice towards Casey, but i still see the top AFL clubs will all be stand alone within the next 2-3 years.

We need to be proactive on this.

Great effort by Brett Lovett this year.

Better effort from Brad Gotch last year with the recruitment of Fevola putting him between a rock and a very hard place!!

Edited September 8, 2012 by picket fence

[Deeoldfart 7,800]

First of all, thanks to KC for his sterling efforts covering Casey from some of those cold windswept venues throughout the year.

.........................................

Here! Here! Many thanks KC.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

Did anyone else note on the AABC commentary that they were passed a note telling them that neither Cook nor Gysberts has been de-listed at this stage? Interesting point and also interesting that the club went to the effort to correct them on it.

[demoniac 1,243]

No, it's not, & it never has been.

Just because the AFL clubs have made arrangements to Join the VFL comp, & are now abusing this competition, is an indictment on the AFL.

If we were back playing, without 'The Flood', 'The Press', & 'The Sliding Press', & other tactics which Have grown into our game due a combination of the Interchange Bench X Sports Science & Professionals full time work on they're fitness.

IF we had less rotations thru a reduced interchange bench, designed to undo the ability to run all the way forward,,, then all the way back again, then rush the bench for a breather before returning to press again... we would get back to footy, & then less strategies, & more matchups & better old fashioned footy.

This IMO would cause these teams losing VFL games for so called development reasons, (learning the current clubs structures & tactics, playbooks etc) to just focus on getting better, bigger, & stronger with traditional football.

You don't have to sacrifice VFL games to do the old fashioned way of footy, whilst developing. The old object used to be to WIN. And Learn to WIN.

You are correct in stating that it did not used to be this way.

VFL clubs had their own Reserves and Under 19 and even 4ths teams which they fully controlled and used to develop players.

The VFA was a viable and proud competition if increasingly inferior competition. I supported the Camberwell Cobras.

Of the 'old VFA' sides the reaility is that only Port and possibly Williamstown and Sandringham are viable as stand alone clubs.

You may be right in your view that the AFL should turn back the clock to how the game was administered and played to some time in the past but that ain't going to happen. The MFC has to adopt best practice as it is in 2012. That is not negotiable.

[Guest Rassilon]

KC thanks for the year.

As much as I hate to say this. However, its time to prepare for a stand alone team - not for next year but very soon after that.

If we are to be fully competitive at AFL level its a must.

[stuie 7,374]

No, it's not, & it never has been.

Of course it is. As soon as teams signed over on alignment then the greater priority was always going to be AFL over VFL.

[Biffen 12,380]

Thanks KC and WJ for all your reports and summaries.

[rjay 23,961]

The highlight of the year at Casey for mine has been Jai Sheahan. He was highly touted in some quarters before last year's draft and missed out. He was rookied in the middle of that draft in December and I've been impressed by him every time I've seen him a Casey. He had a bit of a slump in mid season but he's come good again and I think that along with Rory Taggert, he could be the find of our draft.

Agreed "Whispering Jack", I think we have a lot to look forward to with both these guys.

Add my thanks to KC, your reports have been a highlight in an otherwise unmemorable season. Cheers

[dee-luded 2,958]

You are correct in stating that it did not used to be this way.

VFL clubs had their own Reserves and Under 19 and even 4ths teams which they fully controlled and used to develop players.

The VFA was a viable and proud competition if increasingly inferior competition. I supported the Camberwell Cobras.

Of the 'old VFA' sides the reaility is that only Port and possibly Williamstown and Sandringham are viable as stand alone clubs.

You may be right in your view that the AFL should turn back the clock to how the game was administered and played to some time in the past but that ain't going to happen. The MFC has to adopt best practice as it is in 2012. That is not negotiable.

Thats Bad luck if it's not negotiable, but it shouldn't have anything to do with Melbourne.

It' should be a decision made by the AFL & the VFL together to workout a schedule that works, so the AFL clubs sending they're players to the surgeon, doesn't impact the VFL competition & finals.

It's undermining the Integrity of the Game itself.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Of course it is. As soon as teams signed over on alignment then the greater priority was always going to be AFL over VFL.

No it's not.

I am talking of the proud History of the VFL of over 100 Years. Not the recent flash in the pan concept of the last few years, where they're trashing the VFL.

The VFL has never been a development competition, & I'm certain they haven't any intention of being a doormat.

[demoniac 1,243]

No it's not.

I am talking of the proud History of the VFL of over 100 Years. Not the recent flash in the pan concept of the last few years, where they're trashing the VFL.

The VFL has never been a development competition, & I'm certain they haven't any intention of being a doormat.

The 'VFL' clubs play in the AFL. 'VFA' clubs play in the 'VFL'.

The modern day VFL is run by the AFL. You may think that by calling the merger of the VFA and the AFL Reserves the VFL trashes the VFL brand but the reality is that that the AFL and all the Victorian clubs regard it as a development league. Why do Collingwood and Geelong have their own teams. Why are Essendon and Richmondabout to do the same. Why have Carlton and Hawthorn taken full control of Preston and Box Hill?

And the simple answer is that they believe that fully controlling the development of their players is essential to on field success.

[You're Gawn 26]

Does anyone know where I can get a Casey guernsey?

[dee-luded 2,958]

The 'VFL' clubs play in the AFL. 'VFA' clubs play in the 'VFL'.

The modern day VFL is run by the AFL. You may think that by calling the merger of the VFA and the AFL Reserves the VFL trashes the VFL brand but the reality is that that the AFL and all the Victorian clubs regard it as a development league. Why do Collingwood and Geelong have their own teams. Why are Essendon and Richmondabout to do the same. Why have Carlton and Hawthorn taken full control of Preston and Box Hill?

And the simple answer is that they believe that fully controlling the development of their players is essential to on field success.

That is exactly what I want to see.

The AFL teams playing in their own jumpers & playing their own theme songs to they're supporters before every game, playing to lose, against the VFL sides playing to win.

We'll see how the supporters take it then.

IMO, the supporters will demand an honest effort from their clubs.

[Guest bluey]

I doubt if our senior team would even be competitive in the VFL, without worrying about setting up a seconds side.

[Rocknroll 924]

Thanks kc and wj for all the info, updates and reports. A stellar job. Ignoring the finals casey had some amazing come from behind wins this year and I think Brett lovett has done a top job. I was a big fan of him as a player but miss the long mullet.

These games and reports have Been a highlight of a pretty crappy year as a demon fan. Hopefully you are both back again in 2013

[Mono 454]

Fitzpatrick strung together a lot of games ate the end of the year at Casey, before playigng for MFC against Freo in last round.

To suggest he then HAS to go off for surgery and not play in Casey finals is just ludicrous. It would be more convincing if he went in for surgery instead of playing against Freo.

MFC treats the Casey players with contempt. You play footy to win; why would any stay with Casey? 2 years in a row now; did the same thing to Sandy in the Bailey days

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,625]

I couldn't believe how poorly Casey played on Saturday.

Windy, slippery conditions, and all they wanted to do was handball and short pass.

Twice they passed backwards from the wing to fullback, mucked up the pass, and gifted goals to Willy.In a low scoring game, these errors are not only costly score-wise, but demoralize the whole team.

Over and over again, players with the opportunity to kick the ball well downfield would handball to players in packs until eventually possession was lost.

Did Lovett try to stop the short passing game? Did the players ignore instructions? Which ever, the Casey tactics were disgraceful. What was sickening was that it was so similar to the Senior team's playing style.

I have never coached a footy team, and haven't played for 40 years. I know the game is virtually unrecognisable from the old days. I have no pretentions of knowledge of modern football tactics.BUT , surely, in wet, windy conditions, there's value in gaining yardage by roosting the bloody thing every now and then!!!! Willy did.

[dpositive 1,555]

JumpinJack made alot of points I had been thinking.

Thanks KC again for your efforts and hope you can continue your reports of training and progress which were always appreciated.

A thought on watching AFL finals and CAsey was certainly the differences as JJ pointed out but also the intensity of the game.

Also at the risk of being boring, the muscle development of our players was noticeable even at this level. WE were even smaller and less robust than Willi, Whenever I see MElb or Casey on TV we appear to be boys playing men.

It is even more of a contrast when watching the AFL just look at the size of the players> We have a lot of scrawny (puny) blokes on our list. We certainly need more weight and grunt Look at Jones compared to any other Melb player. I can remember when he started he also had little muscle definition but it doesnt seem to have taken him much time to get it. We need to get more of our players on his work routine

[dee-luded 2,958]

Fitzpatrick strung together a lot of games ate the end of the year at Casey, before playigng for MFC against Freo in last round.

To suggest he then HAS to go off for surgery and not play in Casey finals is just ludicrous. It would be more convincing if he went in for surgery instead of playing against Freo.

MFC treats the Casey players with contempt. You play footy to win; why would any stay with Casey? 2 years in a row now; did the same thing to Sandy in the Bailey days

Yep.

Pathetic, isn't it.

#Thanks to KC from Casey for all your efforts, & to those Casey personnel, staff & players, & supporters who attend regularly who give they're time, emotions & energy for little support & loyalty to they're cause.

A truly thankless & hopeless cause. 4 or 5 seasons now.

[poita 3,667]

Very impressed to see Geelong fielding basically a full contingent of listed AFL players in their VFL side yesterday. Just amazing how a successful club with a winning culture is keen to see their best young players taste premiership success and experience grand final intensity, even if it is at the lower level. Contrast that to the MFC, and the loser culture that it has perfected over the past 48 years.

If this club can't see that a VFL finals campaign is not of greater benefit to players like Fitzpatrick & Spencer, then a few weeks of fitness training in November, then I can't see any prospect of us becoming a premiership contender in the next ten years.

[Mono 454]

Very impressed to see Geelong fielding basically a full contingent of listed AFL players in their VFL side yesterday. Just amazing how a successful club with a winning culture is keen to see their best young players taste premiership success and experience grand final intensity, even if it is at the lower level. Contrast that to the MFC, and the loser culture that it has perfected over the past 48 years.

If this club can't see that a VFL finals campaign is not of greater benefit to players like Fitzpatrick & Spencer, then a few weeks of fitness training in November, then I can't see any prospect of us becoming a premiership contender in the next ten years.

Not sure (hope?) about the 10 years, but otherwise agree.