Now it's time for the serious question

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Depends on how you want to frame it.

I still believe we're on the right track and this season is a necessary evil.

Not pretty, but necessary for the long term prospects of this great club.

Put simply this is the only way to frame it. Any other way and we'll be throwing ourselves under buses.

[Guest KingDingAling]

KDL we do not have to tank mate there is a very good chance we will finish last or second last when we are trying.

Yeah well I hope we write the year off.

We could set ourselves up for a dynasty, I know its been said in the past.

But picks 1 and 2, 11 and Viney would set us up going forward.

And I dont care what anyone says.

The only upside is, we dodged a bullet with Scully, he really does look ordinary.

[jnrmac 18,953]

And we won 8 games last year with the same crap list.....hmmmm...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

KDL we do not have to tank mate there is a very good chance we will finish last or second last when we are trying.

But..but.. what about all the top recruits we've drafted over the past 4 years OD, surely with the likes of them we can't help but rise to the top?

We've been lucky to have BP pick our talent and unlucky that he's gone to Carlton; bit like CC before him, picked the cream of the crop for us and then went to Richmond. I think we have been blessed to have such great talent spotters working for us.

When Cooky ices his first game it will all come together; won't it?

[old dee 22,848]

And we won 8 games last year with the same crap list.....hmmmm...

They also produced 186 and two wins in the last nine games.

Looked the same crap to me

[Dee Fan 3,247]

And we won 8 games last year with the same crap list.....hmmmm...

So you're suggesting that it's not the players it's the coach?

The players that lost by 186; they're ok it's just losing Bailey that's cost us?

You've made this comment a couple of times so what's your real take on this, where do you think we would be now if Bailey had stayed and where do you think we would be in two years time if he was reappointed for a further two or more years?

Spit it out man, what do you think?

[old dee 22,848]

But..but.. what about all the top recruits we've drafted over the past 4 years OD, surely with the likes of them we can't help but rise to the top?

We've been lucky to have BP pick our talent and unlucky that he's gone to Carlton; bit like CC before him, picked the cream of the crop for us and then went to Richmond. I think we have been blessed to have such great talent spotters working for us.

When Cooky ices his first game it will all come together; won't it?

Yep RobbieF of course not sure what we are all worried about.

I reckon all these wonder kids will rocket us upwards in 2013.

We are certainties for 15th in 2013

[Chook 14,470]

And we won 8 games last year with the same crap list.....hmmmm...

We won those games against clubs who couldn't be farked or were incapable of figuring our free-running gameplan out. Against everyone else, we were methodically dismantled week in week out by even larger margins than this year.....hmmmm... Edited July 22, 2012 by Chook

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,615]

1981 when our only win came from a goal after the siren

1981 when our only win came from a goal after the siren

Actually, Robert Flower's winning goal came a minute or two before the siren. We managed to hold on there at the Western Oval for Barrass's first win as coach. It was quite early in the season, so some of us began to get a bit optimistic!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

this is how i feel im honestly just bored of it all and im finding myself not watching anymore, i would rather watch a movie with the wife and just check the scores when its finished, i still buy a membership and always will, but can you imagine what it will feel like when we do finally make finals. i have never been looking forward to draft day than i am right now, this year could end tommorow and i honestly couldnt care less.

I agree mate 100% - I went out to watch the new Batman flick last night rather than watch the Demons. I of course recorded the game on IQ and chucked it on when I got home. The movie was great but I should have gone to bed when I got home. I didn't even get angry or frustrated just couldn't help but laugh in contempt at how utterly rubbish we are and ended up fast-forwarding through half the game out of sheer boredom. How long Lord, how long must we suffer?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[old dee 22,848]

I agree mate 100% - I went out to watch the new Batman flick last night rather than watch the Demons. I of course recorded the game on IQ and chucked it on when I got home. The movie was great but I should have gone to bed when I got home. I didn't even get angry or frustrated just couldn't help but laugh in contempt at how utterly rubbish we are and ended up fast-forwarding through half the game out of sheer boredom. How long Lord, how long must we suffer?

A whille yet my son

Patience is a virtue Dr.

So that must make the MFC the most virtuous group of supporters on earth at present

[angrydee 842]

i, too, have felt particularly destraught this year - although, intellectually, I expected not much better. I hoped for 8-10 wins, but actually expected 4-6. It must be because I've been watching them since 1954 and grew up with expectations of better. You'd think that having been through the false dawns of 1987 -1992, and 1998-2004, I would have learnt - but no.

A list that was as unfit as ours, had done nothing but downhill ski for years, could not be expected to learn to become defensive and gut run in a year. Their lack of fitness was bound to be shown up - particularly in the area of skills when fatigued or pressured. No coach aiming for long term success could find an easy fix.

This team had to go a long way backwards before it could go forwards. Considering the injuries, all I now look for is committment and effort. And that is being provided. A viable game plan and the skilled execution of same will hopefully come, starting next year. Careful (and not overly excessive) list culling, and intelligent recruiting will hopefully see reasonable results as early as next season.

For me, the important improvement will be in percentage - not games won. A percentage of over 95 will indicate that we are genuinely competitive.

The jury is still out on Neeld, but as demon supporters we should all pray he's another red fox. It appears some of you desperately want him to fail - WHY?

[Range Rover 1,935]

The jury is still out on Neeld, but as demon supporters we should all pray he's another red fox. It appears some of you desperately want him to fail - WHY?

Well this is it isn't it. Strikes at the heart of the Hardnuts, Tonatopias and other narrow-minded types who've been angling for a sacking from day dot.

It takes a particular kind of hidden agenda to be so virulently against an incumbent like Neeld. These posters obviously won't state what this is, but I think it's quite reasonable to deduce that at least one of them (or someone close to them) has had their nose put out of joint by the sweeping new changes taking place at the club.

Make no mistake about it - jobs and livelihoods are under threat at season's end. People - quite a number of them in fact - will be shown the door, marking the end of their ride on the AFL gravy train.

The situation reminds me of that scene in the movie Moneyball where the character John Henry (owner of the Boston Red Sox) discusses the hard road taken by Oakland A's manager Bily Beane to achieve success.

"I know you are taking it in the teeth Billy, but the first guy through the wall... he always gets bloody... always. This is threatening not just a way of doing business... but in their minds, it's threatening the game. Really what it's threatening is their livelihood, their jobs. It's threatening the way they do things... and every time that happens, whether it's the government, a way of doing business, whatever, the people who are holding the reins - they have their hands on the switch - they go batshit crazy."

Mark Neeld is now inevitably experiencing a similar type of backlash as he tries to transform our basket case of a footy club.

Credit to him for sticking to his guns. And look out all you underperformers in a few weeks time.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Well this is it isn't it. Strikes at the heart of the Hardnuts, Tonatopias and other narrow-minded types who've been angling for a sacking from day dot.

It takes a particular kind of hidden agenda to be so virulently against an incumbent like Neeld. These posters obviously won't state what this is, but I think it's quite reasonable to deduce that at least one of them (or someone close to them) has had their nose put out of joint by the sweeping new changes taking place at the club.

Make no mistake about it - jobs and livelihoods are under threat at season's end. People - quite a number of them in fact - will be shown the door, marking the end of their ride on the AFL gravy train.

The situation reminds me of that scene in the movie Moneyball where the character John Henry (owner of the Boston Red Sox) discusses the hard road taken by Oakland A's manager Bily Beane to achieve success.

"I know you are taking it in the teeth Billy, but the first guy through the wall... he always gets bloody... always. This is threatening not just a way of doing business... but in their minds, it's threatening the game. Really what it's threatening is their livelihood, their jobs. It's threatening the way they do things... and every time that happens, whether it's the government, a way of doing business, whatever, the people who are holding the reins - they have their hands on the switch - they go batshit crazy."

Mark Neeld is now inevitably experiencing a similar type of backlash as he tries to transform our basket case of a footy club.

Credit to him for sticking to his guns. And look out all you underperformers in a few weeks time.

You have to give Neeld respect for that. The bloke has balls. I'm pretty sure if we could pull the pin on this year we all would including Neeld. Neeld's reign starts at the end of the year for me. This is not his team right now.He is coaching the crap that he inherited not created.

[Range Rover 1,935]

You have to give Neeld respect for that. The bloke has balls. I'm pretty sure if we could pull the pin on this year we all would including Neeld. Neeld's reign starts at the end of the year for me. This is not his team right now.He is coaching the crap that he inherited not created.

Correct weight. Give him a chance to create a list in his own image. We owe him that.

I think it's actually a credit to him that we haven't been flogged by greater margins than we have.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Correct weight. Give him a chance to create a list in his own image. We owe him that.

I think it's actually a credit to him that we haven't been flogged by greater margins than we have.

We all know how hard it is to support the players every week but imagine trying to coach them every week? Especially when Neeld would more then likely know who he never wants to coach again.

[Hardnut 327]

Actually, Robert Flower's winning goal came a minute or two before the siren. We managed to hold on there at the Western Oval for Barrass's first win as coach. It was quite early in the season, so some of us began to get a bit optimistic!

I presume you were there Jack - it was an amazing feeling - Barass even brought the playing group over to us for the 3/4 time address. I remember him pointing to the few hundred of us isolated in the outer and saying words to the effect of they have faith, they came to see you win - I will never forget that, so sad it didn't get any better.

[Hardnut 327]

Well this is it isn't it. Strikes at the heart of the Hardnuts, Tonatopias and other narrow-minded types who've been angling for a sacking from day dot.

It takes a particular kind of hidden agenda to be so virulently against an incumbent like Neeld. These posters obviously won't state what this is, but I think it's quite reasonable to deduce that at least one of them (or someone close to them) has had their nose put out of joint by the sweeping new changes taking place at the club.

Make no mistake about it - jobs and livelihoods are under threat at season's end. People - quite a number of them in fact - will be shown the door, marking the end of their ride on the AFL gravy train.

The situation reminds me of that scene in the movie Moneyball where the character John Henry (owner of the Boston Red Sox) discusses the hard road taken by Oakland A's manager Bily Beane to achieve success.

"I know you are taking it in the teeth Billy, but the first guy through the wall... he always gets bloody... always. This is threatening not just a way of doing business... but in their minds, it's threatening the game. Really what it's threatening is their livelihood, their jobs. It's threatening the way they do things... and every time that happens, whether it's the government, a way of doing business, whatever, the people who are holding the reins - they have their hands on the switch - they go batshit crazy."

Mark Neeld is now inevitably experiencing a similar type of backlash as he tries to transform our basket case of a footy club.

Credit to him for sticking to his guns. And look out all you underperformers in a few weeks time.

You are so out of touch RR - some of us want to build the devestating MFC of old - clearly you don't even have an appreciation of the concept. Stop being an apologist, stop fearing criticism and start thinking!

[Range Rover 1,935]

You are so out of touch RR - some of us want to build the devestating MFC of old - clearly you don't even have an appreciation of the concept. Stop being an apologist, stop fearing criticism and start thinking!

Why don't you just man up, be honest and reveal to everyone what your real agenda is in ragging out on our new coach?

C'mon, enough of these ruses and flimsy pretexts. Let's hear it ...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You are so out of touch RR - some of us want to build the devestating MFC of old - clearly you don't even have an appreciation of the concept. Stop being an apologist, stop fearing criticism and start thinking!

You can't rebuild the "devastating MFC of old", that's from another era when we had many more supporters and a great playing list; that's finished we are a minnow club now and will never strut the MCG as the sole occupier.

We have to build a new MFC now, one that can stand on its own two feet and not be subservient to the MCC and to do that we have to cut out the rot and stop living in the past.

[titan_uranus 22,307]

Unfortunately, as an MFC supporter, we have a lot of possible years to choose from.

2012 to me is as bad as any other year. There were high hopes, misplaced maybe, led by a new coach and having Clark. The level of uncompetitiveness that we've managed to display at times this year has been nothing short of embarrassing, simply terrible.

2008 was the same. 2009 wasn't much better. In terms of disappointment, 2007 was also terrible, given we'd made the semis and been the top-ranked Victorian side in 2006, but that year was derailed with injuries and the Daniher saga.

What a happy thread.

[Grapeviney 8,815]

I presume you were there Jack - it was an amazing feeling - Barass even brought the playing group over to us for the 3/4 time address. I remember him pointing to the few hundred of us isolated in the outer and saying words to the effect of they have faith, they came to see you win - I will never forget that, so sad it didn't get any better.

The comparison with 1981 is an interesting one, and not just for the paucity of wins.

It was Barassi's first year back at the club after the success he had with Carlton and then North Melbourne, and there was a sense that with the Messiah coming home, it would just be a matter of time before the MFC would rise among the ranks again.

As we all know, that didn't happen, but you could argue that the Barassi years did set us up for the Northey era which followed.

Now I'm not suggesting that Neeld is a Barassi who can magically turn dust into gold, but it would be fair to say that many of us thought the appointment of Neeld / Misson / Craig would turn things around if not immediately, then at least pretty quickly.

Given the low fitness base we are working off, among other deficiencies, we now know that's not going to happen (or hasn't happened), but I still have faith that the new faces in the FD are putting in place the necessary building blocks which will ultimately lead us out of the doldrums and up the ladder, and it may well happen sooner than we all think.

[Pennant St Dee 11,257]

I'm the same, I don't despair but I realise that the club must get the next couple of drafts right or there will be no recovery. We have a poor list with a bunch of players that are simply not up to AFL Level and recruiting good VFL players won't win us a flag it will be replacing one NQR with another. Love the endeavour of Magner but he ain't a top line mid and that's what we need.

The club must demand more from the existing players like Howe, who can't just drifts in and out with a couple of speccies here and there but not much else, or Sylvia who seem to choose when he goes and when he doesn't. There are too many players that go missing for too long in games.

Midfielders, strong, fast, and skilled that's what we need no more tall skinny "may be good" players. Begone with the NQR's, delist them so the temptation to give them one more try is no longer there.

With you there if Neeld has decided to delist 10 delist them, jesus I hate Meth Coast but I rate their culture and their FD has been strong for years, I admire the way they develop and get the best out of ordinary players, Woosha is not a great coach but he demands fit players who do the team things and that is what we are asking for now, it will take time but another Eagles non negotiable is to go to the draft and never trade picks, I agree with this and until you are in a flag/top four window you don't tade for Boaks with top picks, so for me 3 & 4 are off the table even for u/17 draft as barring a miracle we will still have a pick inside top 10 next year.

If we can get Boak for pick 13 and a player then I will take that or even if we want Caddy chase that I'll take 2 top kids, Viney and a ready made mid in Boak/Caddy ATM I'd sway to Caddy, I believe we can get him cheaper keep some coin for a F/A and get the kids.

I agree with you on Magner & Couch keep them for another season or two at most and thank them for their efforts unless they improve out of sight, at least you know they wont die wondering. Currently thinking use 6 picks in draft, 1 to 2 F/A's and upgrade 2 rookies and maybe a PSD pick up, that allows us to delist 9 or 10

[dee-luded 2,958]

It's the worst year ever! Except for all those other years we were crap. For example, I wasn't born in 1981, where we dropped 21 out of 22 games and our one win was against Footscray who themselves weren't a lot better, and we won that match by 1 point. On paper, that year looks as big a trainwreck as this year.

But you don't have to go that far back. I don't think we're any worse now than we were in 2008 - I reckon that year scarred me as a supporter forever. Sad that that was supposed to be the start of a rebuild and four years on we're right back to square one, but there's not much point dwelling on that now; we are where we are and we can't change history.

I reckon asking this question immediately after a poor loss is also going to produce very biased results. When people are still fuming about the recent result, of course they're not going to see beyond (in either direction) how we're travelling right now. The most recent pain always seems like the worst one. Objectively, I don't think this is the worst, but it's pretty painful all the same.

Thats what can happen when a Professional Strong Willed well credentialed Coach comes in & stares down an equally strong willed but unprofessional bunch who have had it easy for 10 + Years, but don't really realise it.

The Culture shock of change is overwhelming, Maybe a bit like trying to break-in a mature Wild Stallion, & then train it.

The thing is, Theres only one good culture, & it's the only way to becoming a power outfit..

This is the first time in a while we have had a coach who doesn't have to suck up to the players, like they say how things will be done.

This has been the way at Melbourne for too long.

You can't shine [censored] and that is what Neeld is trying to do.

I'm over it as much as the next bloke, but I try and hold back and let Neeld have this draft to cut some deadwood and add some new players and I will judge them after a second preseason.

Mission did say we were 2 years behind elite fitness and unlike Essendon we did not over push our players.

Start to judge them not from next Preseason, but from the 2013 midway point.

We need the preseason to get more size & fitness, then some games to put together a changing side & settle it a bit.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The comparison with 1981 is an interesting one, and not just for the paucity of wins.

It was Barassi's first year back at the club after the success he had with Carlton and then North Melbourne, and there was a sense that with the Messiah coming home, it would just be a matter of time before the MFC would rise among the ranks again.

As we all know, that didn't happen, but you could argue that the Barassi years did set us up for the Northey era which followed.

Now I'm not suggesting that Neeld is a Barassi who can magically turn dust into gold, but it would be fair to say that many of us thought the appointment of Neeld / Misson / Craig would turn things around if not immediately, then at least pretty quickly.

Given the low fitness base we are working off, among other deficiencies, we now know that's not going to happen (or hasn't happened), but I still have faith that the new faces in the FD are putting in place the necessary building blocks which will ultimately lead us out of the doldrums and up the ladder, and it may well happen sooner than we all think.

And so was the 1986 season after the great Barassi had left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_VFL_season#Ladder

A worrying season.

Add Young recruits like Lyon, Stynes, the Febey boys, Tingay, GLovett, Lovell, ODwyer, Yeates, Bailey, Sparks, Eishold, & interstate players like Johnson, Stretch, Viney, Spalding, Dean, STurner, etc.