OPPORTUNITY LOST

[My TD 156]

Blah this rubbish they serve up which they consider football is unbearable! Only 22 and the grey hairs are sprouting up viciously thanks to this joke of a team. Thanks for the pain dad! * Reaches for bottle of Jimmy*

Yeah mate , I was raised on a steady diet of past heros that dominated long , long ago aswell.

Decided to set the kids free next time they bother asking if the demons won.

They can choose their own destiny.

I could have a couple of cats, and a magpie or bomber supporter living under my roof soon.

Never thought I'd see the day.

Edited July 21, 2012 by My TD

[QueenC 74]

There's going to be some massive culling at the end of the year.

One would hope........

[robbiefrom13 892]

I think the most natural understanding of "hardest team to play against" would be nobody playing against MFC would get a cheap kick. To that end, we'd be manning up, pressuring, shepherding and backing each other up - all the stuff that Bailey had not worried so much about. Good old-fashioned accountable footy, actually - exactly what we were looking for after Bailey. Therefore a logical comment for Neeld to make at the time, to the supporters and public.

To coach the team to play this sort of tight and team-oriented football would be very doable - it does not depend particularly on skill.

Given the low fitness base, which Neeld may not have fully realised at that time, you can understand him raising supporters' expectations with the statement, only to find in the event that it didn't play out. I'd accept it if we ran out of puff every week because we weren't fit enough to keep it up for four quarters. What is so disappointing is that our current style of play is not characterised by most obvious and basic structures and tactics that would make a team hard to play against.

What can we see of Neeld's coaching since he made that initial statement? High levels of fitness training (fair enough I suppose - though there must be a point at which it becomes deadening rather than strengthening), and (especially in the beginning) public negative comment on his players, coupled with a clear distance between coach and players (remember "compliance"?). Also a focus on tactics (like playing the boundary, and the bloody useless zone) rather than taking the game on, a focus on "roles" and targets rather than flair or outcomes, plus dropping players whose reputations exceed their performance, making minimal moves during the game, and maybe now also, letting games go in the interests of his longterm experiments.

Nothing there to inspire players' individual or collective confidence, which is clearly a huge problem, and almost certainly a major factor in the deterioration of skill and decision-making.

I agree with the comments above that Neeld is not succeeding in having a positive effect on the players, and that he appears to be stubborn. While sticking to your guns is in general a good thing, and his ideas may well be excellent in general and excellent for MFC in particular, nevertheless success is pretty much a non-negotiable. If a percentage of the players became as disheartened as a big percentage of the supporters are, Neeld's inflexibility may be approaching the point of no return.

Reconstructive surgery and physiotherapy are wonderful things - but when the patient starts to bleed badly, what you have got to go for urgently is First Aid. The patient here matters - the patient is the MFC, and it is more important than the coach no matter what his vision might be.

I don't see the value in haggling over who to get rid of - clearly we need them both, and we need them working together. Adjustments to the list at the end of the year will not fix anything now, and what we need most now is a couple of wins to stem the bleeding. The most basic way to achieve that is players putting pressure on the opposition and supporting their team-mates - and a coach applauding those things. We need Neeld to see his immediate job as dealing with this corrosive sequence of defeats that is surely now undermining the club. His plans for the team can't be headed for success when they are being embedded ever more deeply in defeat.

Edited July 21, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Only point of disagreement Spencer. Thought we lost it in the second quarter due to midfield and forward set up. We just have so may inbetween/undersized slow players. Masters of "Snow White" recruiting. Been the same issues for 4 -5 years

I was at the game too, every time spencer went near the ball it was comedy hour! He has a crack but skills are no where near it.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

The three main reasons we lost are:

1. Disposal

2. Disposal

3. Disposal

The players had a dip but they just made some really poor unforced shocking errors that really cost us.

The other thing was Clarke or someone to step up to fill the void is lacking. We got it in there but it was way too easily marked or cleared by port.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

68 dreamteam points.

A better average than Kreuzer.

Played very few games and output no worse than what Jamar has provided and the the latter was/has been given plenty of opportunity to produce. How about we extent the same courtesy to The Pencil. You don't win many games of football kicking 8 goals with a completely disfunctional midfield. Agree with posters who said its time to get games into Gysberts and Morton both have some size and are simply better players than several who went around last night.

[monoccular 17,573]

Are we officially tanking now?

Don't need to -- even if we wanted to probably lack the skill base to pull it off.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I still want to know if our players watch other (good) teams play at all?

[mrtwister 652]

IMO.........

I think there is a lot of patience and a little bit of foxing going on here. Players are being asked to work on the aspects of their game that are lacking. Trengove, for one, has said that the coaches are wanting him to improve his uncontested possession numbers which would abviously reduce his inside work as he tries to play a role that allows him to achieve his goals. It would be somewhat naive to think he would be in the minority as far as this is concerned.

Having players do this is essentially playing players not so much out of position, but moreso out of their comfort zone (so it's not tanking per se) until where/how they are playing starts to become more natural and productive. Now some of these players have had to show these improvements at Casey (Couch, Blease, Morton, Nicholson, Watts, maybe Gys, maybe Moloney) while others can possibly only do it in the ferocity of an AFL contest (Magner, Trengove, Howe, Rivers).

Once the group have enough players showing the necessary improvements in their weaknesses, they become a better balanced and well rounded unit. This sort of stuff takes time and it can't be done in a pre-season because there isn't enough pressure to ingrain instinctive reactions. So, the coaches need to throw these players in the deep end and keep them from paddling to the shallow end as long as this season continues. Off season will be spent on skills and fitness only this year it will all be more relevant than it was last time. Once the fitness (cream) and the skills (candles) are in place it will be Happy Birthday MFC.

The group will not have MASSIVE changes for 2 reasons.

1) You can't cull a third of a list unless you're trading them all for someone else or replacing them with new players. Where will the coaching group find 15 players?

2) A lot of them are not as bad as they seem atm and will be given the opportunities to keep improving on their weaknesses to earn a spot in the firsts.

Edited July 21, 2012 by mrtwister

[Arrow 1,257]

I'm as disappointed as the next person but let's be realistic for a second. When the team was named on Thursday it was generally considered it may be the worst Melbourne list on paper including 08. There is so many dodgys on that 22 it's scary. Did anyone really expect a good performance from a team of really 50% AFL standard.

Take for example a list of players I think will be on our list in 2 years from that team:

Sylvia

Frawley

Howe

Trengove

Grimes

Blease

Strauss

T McD

Martin

Jones

Rivers

Potentially Safe/ Maybe Gawn

GARLAND

Petterd

Nicholson

Jetta

Bail

Magner

The rest will be gone.

I don't think Port have a good side but by my count they have 5-6 players last night in the maybe gone or definately gone section. Their core is set and played; ours is out or just not deep enough list wise.

Im not impressed by what was served up, but there were 10 players last night who will make up our list of 42 in 2 years time. That's never going to win you games.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Demon Land 7

[godeesgo 1]

This playing list was rated very highly (for a young list) before Neeld arrived - playing lists do NOT change dramatically in one year at any club.

Neeld and co. out, and advertise and recruit replacements.

Really? By whom? I for one have been saying our list sucks for a number of years and as you say lists don't change much. If you rate our list so highly then tell me how many of them would make it into the hawthorn or collingood sides?

The reality is that both supporters and elements of the press have overrated our list for a number of years.

GO DEES GO

Edited July 21, 2012 by godeesgo

[Go the Biff 3,440]

I still want to know if our players watch other (good) teams play at all?

Then ask the players. How the hell would anyone on here know - no matter how often you repeat the question

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I'm as disappointed as the next person but let's be realistic for a second. When the team was named on Thursday it was generally considered it may be the worst Melbourne list on paper including 08. There is so many dodgys on that 22 it's scary. Did anyone really expect a good performance from a team of really 50% AFL standard.

Take for example a list of players I think will be on our list in 2 years from that team:

Sylvia

Frawley

Howe

Trengove

Grimes

Blease

Strauss

T McD

Martin

Jones

Rivers

Potentially Safe/ Maybe Gawn

GARLAND

Petterd

Nicholson

Jetta

Bail

Magner

The rest will be gone.

I don't think Port have a good side but by my count they have 5-6 players last night in the maybe gone or definately gone section. Their core is set and played; ours is out or just not deep enough list wise.

Im not impressed by what was served up, but there were 10 players last night who will make up our list of 42 in 2 years time. That's never going to win you games.

I think Nicho is safe.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Then ask the players. How the hell would anyone on here know - no matter how often you repeat the question

Sorry, it was a bit of a rhetorical question / venting of frustration.

[jackaub 1,402]

Two bad decisions. Bailey destroyed the list, Neeld is not the man to fix it up. The same posters with blind faith in Neeld had it in Bailey. Ceo has a history of failure, and board needs a shake up. Lucky the media deal needs 18 teams or Melbourne would be gone.

Thommo

Couldnt agree more except for Neeld jury is out on him till mid next year

The board is still a major problem with this club they are perceived as weak inneffectual and easily swayed.Time for a clean out top to bottom

How Brian Royal accpts his pay check is beyond mebut thats another matter

[jackaub 1,402]

Well said Chap, let's all be happy about where we're at and not bat an eyelid, right you are!

Winning doesn't matter, it's all about getting the sticker for the Land Rover's license plate, good show. Hoorah!

Hey Stuie You always make me laugh!!! I have too I would cry watching the game last night

[demonglory 70]

Two bad decisions. Bailey destroyed the list, Neeld is not the man to fix it up. The same posters with blind faith in Neeld had it in Bailey. Ceo has a history of failure, and board needs a shake up. Lucky the media deal needs 18 teams or Melbourne would be gone.

Our whole football department destroyed the list. Neeld needs time to fix this mess and I believe he will do so over time. As for the media deal and Melbourne would be gone - what nonsense we are one of the few Vic clubs that does not have debt. I understand that we are all emotional about our on field performance but lets try and retain some facts here.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

'You were wrong then and you are wrong now'. (Sean Connery, The Presidio.) Remove your tunnel vision, look outside the playing list and you will find an answer.

Oh the irony!

HT is spot on.

Was the same best list that served up 186 at Geelong list?

I am not sure why you are being the player apologist.

You just looked ridiculous doing it

[Wilbur 447]

Please tell me what Jake Spencer did tonight? Except for being tall?

he had 7 tackles

[demonglory 70]

did you really expect that we would become the "hardest team to play against" in a year? yes, we've gone backwards, but we needed to because we have players that have been coached by coaches that didnt teach our players any of the basic defensive aspects of the game. we had some great wins last year, but the majority of them came after massive losses and our players being challenged. neeld needs 2-3 years, and to be able to make the changes he thinks appropriate at the end of the year before we judge him. personally, i think that we will surprise a few ppl next year. with another preseason we will get closer to afl standard fitness. clark has been a massive loss, as has jurrah. i have huge hopes for watts next year, and we will have a huge injection of talent with the upcoming draft. while i understand we've been rebuilding for a long time, and supporters have been waiting even longer, neeld is 10 months into his contract and needs to be given the opportunity to put his stamp on this list before he cops the blame.

Ah a voice of reason - thanks Leeway

[daisycutter 29,737]

I don't have to do anything - views expressed on these sites are merely opinions (unless, of course, someone is privy to confidential information which I would not expect them to release) - I have my views on the strengths and weaknesses in our list, but I repeat 'I have no agenda'. I want MFC to succeed and I firmly believe their current path is fundamentally flawed.

Nothing wrong with having an agenda. at least we know where you stand unlike those who just spin

I just wish the effin club had some (any?) sort of agenda that I could relate to

If the afl was a horse breeder we would be extinguished

[rjay 25,087]

Played very few games and output no worse than what Jamar has provided and the the latter was/has been given plenty of opportunity to produce. How about we extent the same courtesy to The Pencil. You don't win many games of football kicking 8 goals with a completely disfunctional midfield. Agree with posters who said its time to get games into Gysberts and Morton both have some size and are simply better players than several who went around last night.

Yep and add Cook to that.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Yep and add Cook to that.

And maybe Davis even Pickles if he can get his fitness up ( maybe a sub). Appreciate they need to earn their spots, but what have we got to lose at this stage and we need to know if they can can cut it?

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

I have never been a fan of Brian Royal. Last year defence coach,they were rubbish!! This year mid field! Are total garbage!!!

HA! I've been saying this since last year. When he was at Richmond they hated him because they thought he was second rate so they ousted him quickly. Must be moved on, gives the club nothing at all!

[gsmith12 491]

Yeah mate , I was raised on a steady diet of past heros that dominated long , long ago aswell.

Decided to set the kids free next time they bother asking if the demons won.

They can choose their own destiny.

I could have a couple of cats, and a magpie or bomber supporter living under my roof soon.

Never thought I'd see the day.

Great !

Can't wait for an invite to the Sunday evening meal, the scones had better be good