THE BELL TOLLED

[daisycutter 29,291]

This is my take!

We are the poorest performing Victorian club!

We have gone backwards dramatically from last season!

We have not had a successful coach in 50 years!

We have recruited very badly for years!

We cannot seem to recruit superstars...!!!

We always have long injury lists and dont have depth!!

This list is very poor given that previous half decent lists had less coaches, shyte facilties and so on!!!

As a club - we are irrelevant in AFL circles. Our list is simply bad. AND THE CLUB DRAINS IT SUPPORTERS OF ANY ENERGY LEFT TO SUPPORT YEAR IN YEAR OUT. IN A NUTSHELL - ABSOLUTE GUTSFULL OF LOSING!!

so was there anything in particular you don't like?

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

so was there anything in particular you don't like?

Greg Denhim= Dee Landing.

BUSTED!

[Madness 44]

Today has made it clearer to me that we are definitely on the right track, I know were sick of it hearing it, but its gonna take time. This new regime is a couple reset from the Bailey era and us supporters just have to cop that, bring on 2013...

[olisik 4,060]

Bennel did an ACL, end of his career?

[Hardnut 327]

Great effort by the players. Everyone gave 100%.

best effort all year, especially with the injuries.

However, the fact is we are 2 & 13.

Our game plan is one dimensional. We are afraid to use the corridor, therefore it takes twice as much work to kick a goal.

Disappointed that green, petered, Howe, Sylvia and trengove were not rotated thru the full forward line so as to keep them fresh.

I am still unconvinced about neeld even tho it was a fantastic effort by the players.

Really, it's sad that our best performance of the year still resulted in a 5 goal defeat.

IMO, neeld should be replaced at years end.

Let's say it straight up - I agree with you Tona - I don't think we are going anywhere under the current regime.

[picket fence 16,631]

To me the turning point was when Strauss didn't bother to attack the ball and assumed it would go out of bounds. The result was Fremantle took the ball to the other end of the ground and kicked a goal.

Dumb and lazy, Melbourne in a nushell.

And we supposedly recruited Strauss for his 'Elite" kicking skills, well when I switched on for the last quarter I saw him turn the ball over three times in ten minutes of footy! Hardly "Elite" and don't give me "But this was his first game"... stuff Nup Strauss like many of our players cannot hit targets. Just don't know why the hype over his supposedly excellent disposal based on what I saw today!

[dees189227 12,022]

Went to the game today. Loved the first 3 quarters but knew once Jamar went off we were in strife because Stef had kicked 2 in the first quarter and was looking really good in the foward line then he hurt himself and could hardly run.

Blease's goal was great and then that was it. Freo just got the run on. I like the way Blease backs himself and takes on the player but would like to see him get more of the ball.

Just the last quarter. It was all summed up when Grimes instead of kicking into 50 went across the ground and the mark was dropped and freo scored a goal. We just couldnt get the ball out of the middle. So frustrating. I sat there and thought what are nth going to do to us in 2 weeks time at this ground, especially coming back from darwin.

[Madness 44]

Bennel did an ACL, end of his career?

You'd think so, unfortunate for him he didn't get the rest of the season to prove his worth...

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

Poor Bennel, smooth mover who is scared of the contest. Shame!

[Axis of Bob 11,145]

And we supposedly recruited Strauss for his 'Elite" kicking skills, well when I switched on for the last quarter I saw him turn the ball over three times in ten minutes of footy! Hardly "Elite" and don't give me "But this was his first game"... stuff Nup Strauss like many of our players cannot hit targets. Just don't know why the hype over his supposedly excellent disposal based on what I saw today!

You haven't seen that Strauss can kick?

Your opinions are pretty steadfast for someone who has watched no more than 3 quarters in our last 2 games.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

You haven't seen that Strauss can kick?

Your opinions are pretty steadfast for someone who has watched no more than 3 quarters in our last 2 games.

He can kick the ball well, but is he good at choosing when and where to kick?

[Dr. Gonzo 23,678]

And we supposedly recruited Strauss for his 'Elite" kicking skills, well when I switched on for the last quarter I saw him turn the ball over three times in ten minutes of footy! Hardly "Elite" and don't give me "But this was his first game"... stuff Nup Strauss like many of our players cannot hit targets. Just don't know why the hype over his supposedly excellent disposal based on what I saw today!

Nah fatigue would have no impact on a guy in his first senior game back after brutally breaking his leg last year meaning losing all fitness he would have built up in his short career especially with our rotations down due to injuries. How was his disposal in the first 3 quarters?

Edited July 14, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[Hardnut 327]

Fitness in this context = AFL standard or better.

However, it seems when Misson took over the reigns at the MFC, we were less than AFL standard.

Notwithstanding that I spoke to John Quinn (Head of Sports Science at GWS) recently at a corporate function and that he confirmed the following view in spades, I'll provide another account for stating this view.

I injured my hip flexor earlier this year. A mate referred me to a leading sports physio in Sydney to treat it (he also does the physio for several rugby clubs in Sydney), but takes fee paying individuals as well (ie, me).

I asked him whether he knew Dave Misson. He said 'of course, everyone in the industry does'. I then asked him whether he's any good.

His response - 'yep, he's one of the best. I don't actually know him very well, but he's got an enormous reputation.'

I then asked, 'how long before he gets the Dees up to elite AFL fitness?'

His response:

'Probably about 3 pre-seasons - and, that said, he won't even try to rebuild the senior players. It's too late for them - he'll just try to tweak them. Whereas for the younger players, he'll invest the time - BUT it will take a lot of time and patience too. There are no miracles in this space - it's all hard work, and I understand they were a fair way off the pace - so, for them, it'll take even longer. First of all, they need to catch up to the other clubs - all of which put enormous energy into this area as well - but, to then surpass them - well, that's not easy because they also have elite regimes and elite athletes, and they're all going like a bull at a gate on this stuff. So it's not easy at all. I'm confident you'll be happy with the results in a FEW years from now though'.

My take out - most lay people don't get this area - it's simply too scientific. They simply want instant results, and, if those results are not there instantly, the supporters get frustrated.

BUT I strongly suspect the physio's analysis above is correct. 100% correct.

This stuff takes time. And the new regime hasn't had the requisite time just yet. To suggest otherwise is plainly stupid.

But then again, the dominant majority at the time also thought Galileo was wrong.

Nice try Ron, but a lot of words and dropping a name or two doesn't answer the basic question of what type of fitness is needed for AFL performance. Think about why we use rotations so often. Think about what we need from a player in a match situation. Etc, etc. No matter how much some may try to perpetuate the myth, MFC (and other clubs for that matter) is not starting from zero in fitness stakes. Sounds like more excuses to me - even for a lay person, it's not rocket science.

[picket fence 16,631]

And in more worrying news the fact that Jamar reinjured the same calf which was rehabed must be a concern for the conditioning people. Bottom line they are the guys that are the experts and so really should Jamar have played today would be my question? Reoccuring soft tissue injuries are almost the exclusive domain of amateur sport not professional AFL I would have thought. Interesting if the HARDER Etihad abomination of a surface had anything to do with the reoccurance!

One other thing hardnut or anyone else who might know exactly what are Dave Missons sports qualifications and I'm not talking about his reputation, what are his academic quals? anyone know?

Edited July 14, 2012 by picket fence

[picket fence 16,631]

Nah fatigue would have no impact on a guy in his first senior game back after brutally breaking his leg last year meaning losing all fitness he would have built up in his short career especially with our rotations down due to injuries. How was his disposal in the first 3 quarters?

Dunno, I will look when I have time, but when I turned over ( from the VFL) as stated in the last quarter, I witnessed this occurance and I am only talking the last quarter!.Which is why the comment! Anyone else want to fill me in on how his disposal was in the first three Q?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Nice try Ron, but a lot of words and dropping a name or two doesn't answer the basic question of what type of fitness is needed for AFL performance. Think about why we use rotations so often. Think about what we need from a player in a match situation. Etc, etc. No matter how much some may try to perpetuate the myth, MFC (and other clubs for that matter) is not starting from zero in fitness stakes. Sounds like more excuses to me - even for a lay person, it's not rocket science.

Seems like it's rocket science for you unfortunately hardnut.

[Axis of Bob 11,145]

Nice try Ron, but a lot of words and dropping a name or two doesn't answer the basic question of what type of fitness is needed for AFL performance. Think about why we use rotations so often. Think about what we need from a player in a match situation. Etc, etc. No matter how much some may try to perpetuate the myth, MFC (and other clubs for that matter) is not starting from zero in fitness stakes. Sounds like more excuses to me - even for a lay person, it's not rocket science.

You are kidding me. Is this a Bluey-esque joke?

What do you think fitness is? (He says, with popcorn in hand)

[timD 994]

Bob, why are you doing this? Hardnut started the year with an anti-Neeld, ant-Craig, pro-Sanderson position and has not changed it. Despite a total failure of the logic in his arguments, despite reason, despite a consensual reality. Why ask? He doesn't know the answer. You know he doesn't. I know you know he doesn't. He probably does not know that he doesn't know. If he becomes aware he'll resort to empty rhetoric. He'll say anything -like "lists are by-and-large all equal" - to defend the indefensible.

Why?

[Grapeviney 9,481]

A lot to like about today's game, although as many have said, the injuries to Jamar and Bennell robbed us of flexibility and rotations and ultimately - probably - the game.

Was pleased to see Green bag a few goals and get back amongst it - really hope he can maintain a bit of form and see out the season on a high.

Thought T-Mac had a ripper first half, and reckon J-Mac played well again today too, 86 % disposal efficiency again giving lie to the claim that he does nothing but butcher the ball.

I'm a fan of Frank Grimes but gee some of his disposal makes baby Jesus cry - aside from the obligatory out-of-bounds on the full, as someone mentioned above, the decision to kick across ground rather than pump it forward in the last quarter was inexplicable.

Howe had one of his poorer games of the year today, and lining up for that set shot it just looked like he knew it was going to go wide. Definitely down on confidence.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Grapeviney

[Axis of Bob 11,145]

Bob, why are you doing this? Hardnut started the year with an anti-Neeld, ant-Craig, pro-Sanderson position and has not changed it. Despite a total failure of the logic in his arguments, despite reason, despite a consensual reality. Why ask? He doesn't know the answer. You know he doesn't. I know you know he doesn't. He probably does not know that he doesn't know. If he becomes aware he'll resort to empty rhetoric. He'll say anything -like "lists are by-and-large all equal" - to defend the indefensible.

Why?

1- It's good for the ego.

2- I think it's important that people looking on see that they shouldn't be scared off by the irrational, yet loud, minority. If idiocy is accept to be OK, then it makes Demonland a worse place. It becomes a place where interesting, logical, well-reasoned posts and posters become fewer and further between, which ends up feeding itself. If irrational, yet noisy, posters become the norm then good posters aren't attracted to the site, but rather it will attract irrational loonies.

I want Demonland to be a place where I can have interesting conversations with intelligent people wo love their footy. Hopefully the critical mass can be on the light side, rather than the dark side.

[angrydee 842]

Dunno, I will look when I have time, but when I turned over ( from the VFL) as stated in the last quarter, I witnessed this occurance and I am only talking the last quarter!.Which is why the comment! Anyone else want to fill me in on how his disposal was in the first three Q?

70% DE. All his errors were in the last quarter - 1st senior game tired badly

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Losing Jamar robbed us of Matin forward- who kicked 2 in the first half and it could have been a breakout forward game for him- so quite unfortunate there.

Injury to Bennell lost us a rotation, a proppy Grimes, no Watts down back who could have been a handy foil- had things gone our way make no mistake- we would have won.

The main difference was Pav, and Freo having a forward target. We had none. Clark in- a fit Jamar or even a Sellar inclusion and the game could have been ours.

Our team still needs a small forward. This is one of our highest drafting priorities.

I think Bennells time at the MFC is over. Petterd looking shaky.

Nice return from Green, Sylvia slowly getting back into it- Grimes and Martin battled hard and I'm LOVING Tom Mcdonald.

Not too much to cry about today. Well apart from the loss. Richmond lost to GC, so think how their supporters will be feeling LOL!

[beelzebub 23,185]

A lot of you DO realise we were 2 men down..one being our ruck ???

Some funny stuff on here for sure lol

[BAMF 4,078]

70% DE. All his errors were in the last quarter - 1st senior game tired badly

I thought he was really good for his first game back.

The turnover in the last was annoying. Lined it up, drilled it, hit the target right on the [censored]. Shame it was a Freo player.

[Hardnut 327]

Bob, why are you doing this? Hardnut started the year with an anti-Neeld, ant-Craig, pro-Sanderson position and has not changed it. Despite a total failure of the logic in his arguments, despite reason, despite a consensual reality. Why ask? He doesn't know the answer. You know he doesn't. I know you know he doesn't. He probably does not know that he doesn't know. If he becomes aware he'll resort to empty rhetoric. He'll say anything -like "lists are by-and-large all equal" - to defend the indefensible.

Why?

All very Rumsfeld-esque really!