Mark Neeld's Spray on Morton.

[Guest José Mourinho]

If quoting tweets can be deemed news, then I don't have a problem with quoting demonland (depending on the poster).

But even then, we just aren't setting the bar high enough these days...

[PaulRB 5,977]

I think a journo using a club discussion board to get the pulse of what the collective of Melb obsessed fans think is wise and more likely to reflect some truth (if such a thing exists) than alot of the traditional alternative sources, even former players, etc ... There is alot of research that collaborative groups generate superior results to individuals in most circumstances.

[rpfc 27,544]

I think a journo using a club discussion board to get the pulse of what the collective of Melb obsessed fans think is wise and more likely to reflect some truth (if such a thing exists) than alot of the traditional alternative sources, even former players, etc ... There is alot of research that collaborative groups generate superior results to individuals in most circumstances.

No doubt, but when you leave an unattributed quote in an article you are going to get criticised by rpfc. Especially when that source is an anonymous poster on a public forum.

Look, yes I am overreacting, but are we not all appalled at the state of journalism today?

Newspapers complain they are not being read, I complain they are not worth reading.

[jnrmac 19,107]

.... and just his innate ability to undo his good work with some shocking decisions in the space of 5 mins of play his downfall and costly one at that. I've seen it transpire over the last 5 years, its not getting any better, its not getting any worse. Put him up for a trade and see what you get for him.

His trade value is zero. The best draft of all time supposedly - as if anyone will give up something for Morton.

As for your 5 minutes of poor play I suggest you watch the last quarter again where he butchered the ball 3 times (once for a direct goal). Malthouse, Watson, Brereton, Lyon, Commetti and Mcivaney all potted him for his insipid play all day, lack of commitment to the contest, urgency and poor skills. Yet some here are pleading for more time. After 4 years and 70 games I think we have seen what he can and can't do. The jury is in.

He has been told again and again what to do and he simply can't do it, I don't care what number he was drafted at he is simply not up to it,.

The sooner some here get used to it the better,

[beelzebub 22,237]

If quoting tweets can be deemed news, then I don't have a problem with quoting demonland (depending on the poster).

But even then, we just aren't setting the bar high enough these days...

Ive got my bar set at 1250....good for leaning on and ideal for a stool. !!! is that ok ? lol

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

After 4 years and 70 games I think we have seen what he can and can't do.

Jamar was with us for 7 years before becoming an All-Australian, only the last couple of those did he start showing anything at all - I know MJ's a ruckman, but still I don't think the jury should be in on CM yet. On the other hand there's a million McLeans, Millers, Bate and Newtons that got all the years they wanted and never delivered

[beelzebub 22,237]

C & b... Thats the point... Surely we have learnt to now cut and run where required . I hope ol Cale can come good on his promising cv but important not confident nor holding my breath . You can

[McQueen 17,864]

Jamar was with us for 7 years before becoming an All-Australian, only the last couple of those did he start showing anything at all - I know MJ's a ruckman, but still I don't think the jury should be in on CM yet.

Jamar was a rookie, not a number 4 pick.

On the other hand there's a million McLeans, Millers, Bate and Newtons that got all the years they wanted and never delivered

And look at what all those years of waiting brought us..

[mauriesy 6,815]

It 'aint for printed public consumption. At least not by any respectable newspaper.

It's still a form of media that is publicly consumed ... by anyone. Get real!

[Range Rover 1,935]

It's still a form of media that is publicly consumed ... by anyone. Get real!

I have given this a bit of a re-think since this morning. If David King is fit to be deemed a 'leading AFL analyst' then anything goes really.

It's all - quite literally - fish and chip wrapping at the end of the day isn't it.

[Robbie57 1,991]

Morton played well (apart from the bit where I had to throw the TV out the window!). Sure Neeld gave him a deserved serve but then moved on.

For us as a team its all about eliminating those errors. Its not just Cale.

Yesterday we had several examples, Blease running one too many steps, Sellar weak handpasses, and a few others kicking poorly for a turnover.

McDonald is another example of someone who has had a few massive blunders but is going to be a long term asset down back.

For the record the full quote is above. I am a supporter of Cale but like most can get frustrated at the so called coach killers in any game. It was intended in a light hearted way to make the point errors like that are still in the team and we need to concentrate on them.

I think the last time I saw a TV about to go out a window it was my brother picking it up after one J Stynes ran across a certain mark.

Stynes made my brother and I eat our words in the years that followed.

If anyone knows Cale tell him I am positive he can prove us TV throwers wrong and I am happy to be identified if need be as I see nothing wrong with my remarks (if they had been quoted in full).

[Dr. Gonzo 22,523]

It was public and, from what I saw on TV, in my opinion it was humiliating. As you know, it's often the way that something is said that has far more significance than the actual content. I don't think anything was gained from the display other than to raise some man-management questions.

Oh please, if a player can't cop a spray from a coach we might as well just all give up. He is a paid professional athlete getting paid very good money to run around and kick a ball. He's not a primary school kid FFS.

[mauriesy 6,815]

It's all - quite literally - fish and chip wrapping at the end of the day isn't it.

I think there's a difficulty in trying to ascribe serious journalism to what was basically a fluff piece about a footballer, even if it was in the Age.

[Biffen 12,354]

Maybe Neeld should just apologise to Cale and start wearing a "Sh!t Happens"

T-shirt to training .

Jack T" Neeldy ,some of the guys think everything is getting a little bit intense"

Neeld"No worries Jack ,we'll have some beer , pizza ,and a big d&m chat about what REALLY motivates all the guys"

Jack "Cool Marky Mark-catch you tomorrow ,I gotta go early to get a waxing done for the party on Friday night"

MN "Sweet-Have fun dude!"

[The Chazz 4,077]

Whether Morton is ever going to be a good footballer or not is almost immaterial. I'm not surprised that a journo would have a look at D'land if they were putting a story together on someone like Morton or Watts. As high draft picks, the story is about them not living up to their potential rather than, in the case of low draft picks, exceeding expectations eg Howe, Magner. Nothing surprising there at all. I suspect everyone knows that there has been a fair bit of deserved criticism from the supporters.

My issue was that:

Are the best interests of the footy club served by our coach, on match day, being publicly seen to deliver a rocket to a player?

I was uncomfortable last year when a premiership-winning coach (Malthouse) did the same thing to a young-ish player (Simon Buckley) and I'm more uncomfortable with a first year senior coach doing the same thing. It's just wrong and (I'm filled with dread to use the term) makes MN just look like a schoolyard bully. Where's the consistency when other players did exactly the same thing in the game but didn't receive the same rocket. I've long been a critic of Morton but, up to the clanger, I thought he was one of or best. He tackled, he chased, he ran both ways.

The other question is would the story have been written without the spray and has this improved Morton's chance of minimizing his areas of concern. Only time will tell, I guess

Jimcor - to the best of my knowledge, Neeld told Cale to kick with his right foot. That's not a public spray, it's a very obvious observation that cost us a goal, and was a factor in a number of our turnovers throughout the day (and has been for many weeks). If that is going to hurt his feelings, or if it has hurt yours, you both need to harden up. I'm sure Bailey would've had the same verbal exchange, and come to think of it, I wouldn't want to see any coach act differently.

In regards to The Age article quoting a Demonland poster, I want to know if the author showed the article to Robbie57 before publishing it. Some of you will understand this question, as a few of us had a healthy debate about what papers can write without permission. Just trying to remember what the topic was...ah that's right, sponsorship!

Edit - put the right posters name in. Cheers RP!

Edited June 13, 2012 by billy2803

[rpfc 27,544]

In regards to The Age article quoting a Demonland poster, I want to know if the author showed the article to RobbieF before publishing it. Some of you will understand this question, as a few of us had a healthy debate about what papers can write without permission. Just trying to remember what the topic was...ah that's right, sponsorship!

It was Robbie57, but that's the next question - Hanlon doesn't know who he is, or whether he is genuine.

It is laughable that you can have an unattributed quote from an anonymous poster on an internet forum, in The Age.

Edit: Thought it was the Hun, still surprised it wasn't in the Hun.

Edited June 13, 2012 by rpfc

[beelzebub 22,237]

The Age is hardly the biggest selling paper..lol...Theyre struggle city

[Hatchman 486]

I just posted on this thread so some lazy journo can quote me

I love you Cale!!!

xoxoxox

[jnrmac 19,107]

Jamar was with us for 7 years before becoming an All-Australian, only the last couple of those did he start showing anything at all - I know MJ's a ruckman, but still I don't think the jury should be in on CM yet. On the other hand there's a million McLeans, Millers, Bate and Newtons that got all the years they wanted and never delivered

Jamar would never have been kept IF Daniher had played Jolly more often than 8 mins a game. Jols only left to get a better opportunity. He would have been our first ruckman and Jamar would likely have been binned.

Edited June 13, 2012 by jnrmac

[Grapeviney 8,846]

It was Robbie57, but that's the next question - Hanlon doesn't know who he is, or whether he is genuine.

whether he's a genuine what? poster? what's the alternative? that he's an automated bot that produces opinions on cale morton ?

It is laughable that you can have an unattributed quote from an anonymous poster on an internet forum, in The Age.

no it's not. in the context, the poster's identity is irrelevant to the story. the only qualification is that the poster be a melbourne supporter with an opinion. it makes no difference whether robbie57 is a 14-y.o girl or a 73 y.o grandfather

if - for example - the forum was comprised only of former melbourne players, then you'd have an argument for unmasking the poster's identity. if the journo wrote "a former player has demanded mark neeld be sacked" the public would rightly be curious whether it was a recent player, or a premiership champion, or someone who's always been embittered etc etc. but in thist context it doesn't matter diddly squat whether robbie 57 is arthur or martha, they're a melbourne supporter with an opinion

really don't know why you're making such a song and dance about attribution and identity. if talkback is flooded with callers baying for neeld's blood does it really matter whether its kevin from sunshine who's on the phone or ivan from ivanhoe?

[rpfc 27,544]

really don't know why you're making such a song and dance about attribution and identity. if talkback is flooded with callers baying for neeld's blood does it really matter whether its kevin from sunshine who's on the phone or ivan from ivanhoe?

If you don't find issue with it, that is fine.

I take issue with the laziness that has crept into journalism and the faux pas of having unattributed, unverified quotes in the paper isn't a big thing in this instance (of course it isn't, it's an article on Cale Morton...) but in a larger sense of the standards of news articles today.

Just one thing - if we are now comparing newspaper articles to talk back radio, is that not proof of declining standards?

[PaulRB 5,977]

I think your are objecting to a practice (loose Journalism) that has always gone on. The difference is now we can track their "journalistic" sources via the internet, where previously they'd be getting quotes and ideas over a beer at their local.

The internet and time pressure on journos to produce more with less time, make the shift in sources and journalistic practices inevitable. Not sure it equates to s decline (it may), but it is also more transparent...

Edited June 14, 2012 by PaulRB

[Hannibal 5,814]

We are not disapproving of 'our' site but the opinion on any player is very divided, the journo, if you can actually use that phrase these days, will usually in all probability pick the 'bad' first, it sells more newspapers

Probably trawled through the site coz he had writers block, or poor imagination, you pick which one, and thought there is an easy target,

What do want Josh Mahoney to say...."he is a complete spud of a list clogger, should never be picked again", I would be horrified if he did.

Cale Morton has to answer to the Club, he will know exactly where he stands today

The fact that he was booed off, by Melbourne supporters, disgusted me

The supporters' views on Morton can justifiably be a story in itself. There are more journalists covering AFL than politics, so it's reasonable for journalists to look at all angles. He's packaged it up, which makes sense to me.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Miserable and whingeing...

Posters on here cannot decide on my personality, can they?

I run the gamut on descriptions of me on this place...

This is not about rpfc being a whingeing MFC supporter - I think I have shown that I am anything but - it is about journalism and how this is an example, a small one albeit, of how it has sunk.

I can honestly say I've never given it a nano seconds thought. Do you often reflect on how you're perceived by others ? Even anonymous internet nuffies ?

But I do note that you're quoting yourself in the third person in your last paragraph. Oh dear.

[Grapeviney 8,846]

If you don't find issue with it, that is fine.

I take issue with the laziness that has crept into journalism and the faux pas of having unattributed, unverified quotes in the paper isn't a big thing in this instance (of course it isn't, it's an article on Cale Morton...) but in a larger sense of the standards of news articles today.

Just one thing - if we are now comparing newspaper articles to talk back radio, is that not proof of declining standards?

without getting into a debate on media standards (and yes I do think they are on the slippery slope) i wasn't really comparing talkback radio to print journalism. they are different beasts.

i do think it's valid, however, to use talkback radio as a measure of public opinion, and the same would go for this forum.. it's not unreasonable to say - and not uncommon to see - sentences such as "talkback callers flooded the airwaves to call for coach x' sacking or rule y to be changed"..

that doesn't make it an accurate reflection of community sentiment, just a selection of the views that are out there