Jack Watts

[waynewussell 5,746]

Apparently an AFL club has a 20yo, 196cm, 90kg bloke running around in the VFL who gave what many believe a BOG performance in round 1. It gets better! Word has it that he has already shown similar ability at the highest level on a few occasions. Boy, I would love that club to be us... Watts that?

[Macca 16,967]

Looking ahead to next week - What position is Jack going to play in our round 1 clash vs Brisbane ?

My guess is as a utility - bit of wing , high half forward , sometimes deep forward , maybe even a bit of ruck-roving .

Reckon Martin will play CHF for now .

Cheers

Edited March 25, 2012 by Macca

[The Chazz 4,077]

How many Billy's are out there ? Do people really think Watts wasn't drafted as a key forward ? Extraordinary.

Comments from Mark Neeld:

"MELBOURNE coach Mark Neeld has told the club's remaining No. 1 draft pick, Jack Watts, that he will be played as a forward this year alongside recruit Mitch Clark.

''My plan is to play Jack Watts forward,'' Neeld said. ''When he was drafted he was certainly drafted as a key position prospect."

I'll have to let Neeld know he's off his tree.

When we drafted Watts he was playing as a key forward for Vic Metro and Brighton Grammar. Being 196cms does anyone think there was a chance Melbourne drafted him as a key forward ? Some comments on here beggar belief.

Little Benny, I have no doubt he will be a KPF, I have not stated otherwise. I just ahave a different definition of the type of Key Forward I want Watts to be, and I'm far from disappointed with how he is progressing.

You on the other hand...hmmm...maybe, just maybe you need to realise that a key forward doesn't mean a gorilla forward. Maybe read the posts and actually listen to what people are telling you, instad of thinking you know best ok? Chum.

I now one thing, there is only one "Billy" out there, just the same as there being only one Watts. And thank Chirst there's only one of you, becasue even that one is barely tolerable. I'm going to squeeze lemons in my eyes as it would be far more enjoyable than reading to your jibba jabba.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Geelong were desperate for a big making forward for years, and tried hard to trade and draft to get one. One of these players that was drafted was Andrew Mackie. Geelond had the sense to realise he was never going to be that big pack busting forward they yearned for, but they were smart enough to utilise his other talents elsewhere, where he became an All-Australian in a premiership side.

I see Jack Watts in the mould of an Andrew Mackie, smart but not an overley tough footballer. I don't see any traits in Watts that makes me think he will ever be a damaging key forward the likes of Cloke, Buddy, Kennedy and Reiwoldt. But that doesn't mean he can't be a great player elsewhere on the field, I just hope we don't ruin his career by trying to force him to be something he is not.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Little Benny, I have no doubt he will be a KPF, I have not stated otherwise. I just ahave a different definition of the type of Key Forward I want Watts to be, and I'm far from disappointed with how he is progressing.

You on the other hand...hmmm...maybe, just maybe you need to realise that a key forward doesn't mean a gorilla forward. Maybe read the posts and actually listen to what people are telling you, instad of thinking you know best ok? Chum.

I now one thing, there is only one "Billy" out there, just the same as there being only one Watts. And thank Chirst there's only one of you, becasue even that one is barely tolerable. I'm going to squeeze lemons in my eyes as it would be far more enjoyable than reading to your jibba jabba.

All you do is expose yourself as an intellectual lightweight with your vacuous posts.

it's obvious Watts will never be a crash and bash key forward, it's obvious he'll never be a Hurley, or Jono Brown, and it was obvious he wouldn't be that type of player before he was drafted. The club knew it, recruiters knew it, everyone knew it. There's nothing ground-breaking in those arguments, sorry arguements (sic). But listen up, Chuckles, there are some non-negotiables when it comes to playing key forward in the AFL and right now Watts is getting battered pillar to post by experts of the game because he's failing miserably in some of those areas. A 200+ game multiple premiership player from a footballing family dynasty recently called him a "squib" at a private function.

Now I know that you think they're all wrong, I know that you'll defend your boy to the hilt and that's admirable, but I also suggest that when it comes to footy you could squeeze your acumen on the jot that ends this sentence.

Still friends ?

[Friday 71]

Jacks going to be a monstor!

look at how much he's bulked up in the arms in the last 2 years.

Wait until he's pushing out huge weights like Trav cloke.

He'll be throwing people around like rag dolls. Last 2 years he has been bouncing off everything. (Although he will find it easier this year looking at his size)

[jnrmac 20,061]

I seem to be debating a child, but I'll press on.

"I'm clearly asking you if you believe Watts was the best player in the draft in 2008"

You never know who the best player in a draft is for a number of years, unless you own a crystal ball. Watts was in part picked on potential. He was somewhat of a speculative pick, but it was done so due to the immense natural ability he'd shown. Having seen 3 games I didn't think that he'd absolutely dominated the national championships and was somewhat surprised by his Larke Medal, but clearly his talent wasn't in question. In fact he showed himself to be an excellent prospect. I was leaning to picking him before the draft camp because I was intoxicated by his skill and athleticism and, in part, because we needed a key forward to replace Neitz. And I'm of the belief that a key forward is a prerequisite in a premiership assault. Once he blew everyone away at DC, i.e. second over 20 metres, 2nd to Steven Hill in the agility test, and winning the pyscho motor testing, which determines a player's ability to make decisions under pressure, it was a no brainer. Does that mean he was the best player in 2008 ? No. Does it mean that he wasn't the best player in 2008 ? No. It's a complex question and one that couldn't be answered then and can't be fully answered now.

Watts shows all of the potential that he showed over 3 years ago and much of it was evident last night. There are areas of his game that don't stand up to the pressure of AFL footy. And if it doesn't stand up to the pressure of 'home and away' it sure as hell won't stand up in a final. Axis of Bob seems to think that tiptoeing around an AFL ground is acceptable. I disagree and I also disagree with him about Pendlebury and the way he plays. That's fine, it makes the world go round.

Now if you can respond without being petulant I'll be amazed.

I was leaning to picking him before the draft camp because I was intoxicated by his skill and athleticism and, in part, because we needed a key forward to replace Neitz.

I am glad you were leaning towards him - obviously the club has great faith in your insights as a recruiter.

but you do confuse me with some of your logic

it's obvious Watts will never be a crash and bash key forward, it's obvious he'll never be a Hurley, or Jono Brown, and it was obvious he wouldn't be that type of player before he was drafted.

But you do think he was a replacement for David Neitz? And now you are disappointed? Wow. I guess you have told the club that and they are regretting they listened to you in the first place. Hmmm?

And if you don't think he was going to be a crash and bash forward what did you think he was going to be??

And why would you be disappointed now? Explain that again?

Edited March 25, 2012 by jnrmac

[DeeSpencer 25,697]

On Watts - according to the herald sun he only had 4 marks. Now I know that the vfl can be a bit scrappy but if you are dominating across half forward you should get 10 or more marks with a few of them contested.

Watts might still be a star without being a key forward, but he better be to be ultimately useful to the team, because a star running half forward/wing type player isn't anywhere near as useful as a star key position forward. He doesn't draw the footy the way that other young key forwards like Hurley, Reid and Jones of his age group do.

Hopefully Neeld persists with him and he can keep getting the ball delivered through him, that way by the end of the year we will see if he can be a target who can create a contest. Otherwise we may as well look to him for other positions and bring in Cook (if he every gets on the park) or Tom McDonald.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

I see Watts taking the role that many are hoping Morton could fill- that is a tall utility. Nothing about him is "crash and bash," not now as a still skinny kid and probably not in the future either when he fills out a bit more. Crash and bash isn't everything these days, the game has evolved past the days of needing hulking FF's.

[bing181 9,234]

I seem to be debating a child, but I'll press on.

"I'm clearly asking you if you believe Watts was the best player in the draft in 2008"

You never know who the best player in a draft is for a number of years

No, you do. The best player in a draft is the best player in a draft.

What happens a number of years later is just that.

I find some of the Watts discussion here really bizarre, to say the least. As was pointed out, if he took yesterday's form into the AFL, and held it for most of the year, he'd go close to a Brownlow, and Melbourne would be a much better side as a result. Yet there'd still be those here lamenting that fact that he didn't crash packs - or whatever other preconception they have of what he SHOULD be doing.

[Chook 15,013]

The thing about Watts that I am worried about is his inability to take lots of marks on the lead. He's reputedly one of the fastest players ever over twenty metres, so why isn't this attribute being used?

He never leads like a madman, and when he does lead at all, he is ignored by his team-mates. I'm happy for Jack to develop into whatever fits his unique strengths and weaknesses (everyone has those), but his speed is one of his biggest positive attributes. Why isn't it utilised?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Chook

[Macca 16,967]

Big bodied forwards who can take a mark , create a contest , play in front all the time and bring other players into the game are vital in todays footy .

Pies , Cats , Eagles and Hawks all have at least 2 . Sometimes they'll play 3 . It's the Blues achilles heal . We've got maybe one in Clark . Probably one if we're being optimistic .

Neeld has come from a club that always plays at least 2 big bodied forwards . And the Pies keep making it to the last 2 weeks of September . Neeld talks about grunt a lot as well . And we're possibly going to be playing around the boundary line from defence . It stands to reason that Neeld wants at least 2 big bodied forwards in the key positions .

If Neeld was going to play Jack at CHF in game 1 vs Brisbane then why would he not play him at CHF last night . Surely Mark would have some input . It doesn't bother me where Jack plays . As long as we get maximum value out of him .

Cheers

Edited March 25, 2012 by Macca

[rjay 24,924]

Looking ahead to next week - What position is Jack going to play in our round 1 clash vs Brisbane ?

My guess is as a utility - bit of wing , high half forward , sometimes deep forward , maybe even a bit of ruck-roving .

Reckon Martin will play CHF for now .

Cheers

Think you are on the money Macca.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I was leaning to picking him before the draft camp because I was intoxicated by his skill and athleticism and, in part, because we needed a key forward to replace Neitz.

I am glad you were leaning towards him - obviously the club has great faith in your insights as a recruiter.

but you do confuse me with some of your logic

But you do think he was a replacement for David Neitz? And now you are disappointed? Wow. I guess you have told the club that and they are regretting they listened to you in the first place. Hmmm?

And if you don't think he was going to be a crash and bash forward what did you think he was going to be??

And why would you be disappointed now? Explain that again?

I'm not sure why some on here need to be spoon fed.

He didn't have to be a Neitz clone, in fact I hoped for a better forward than Neitz. I envisaged a forward in the Riewoldt mould, or a tall James Hird. Hird's canny sense and instincts reminded me of Watts - still do. Hird, however, was great at winning contested footy and Jack is lightyears from how Hird played.

Let's hope the penny drops.

[Hannibal 5,814]

No, you do. The best player in a draft is the best player in a draft.

What happens a number of years later is just that.

I find some of the Watts discussion here really bizarre, to say the least. As was pointed out, if he took yesterday's form into the AFL, and held it for most of the year, he'd go close to a Brownlow, and Melbourne would be a much better side as a result. Yet there'd still be those here lamenting that fact that he didn't crash packs - or whatever other preconception they have of what he SHOULD be doing.

He was picked because of what he showed he could become. On output alone in 2008 he wasn't the best footballer and I doubt any recruiter in the land would have said he was. Just like Naitanui was picked on what he could become at AFL level with development. It's the reason Steven Hill was a surprise at 3. Do you think on output Naitanui was the second best junior in the land, or Hill third ? There's speculation involved.

Rich was the best junior in 2008, but slid because of how it was perceived his weaknesses would be exposed at AFL level.

What I find bizarre is so many supporters being satisfied with a key forward, former number one draft pick, playing off a wing in the VFL entering his 4th year. His intensity levels are below what's required to dominate at AFL level and there's a massive gulf between VFL and AFL. And you're talking Brownlows ? Jeez. Were you there ?

[RalphiusMaximus 6,052]

The thing about Watts that I am worried about is his inability to take lots of marks on the lead. He's reputedly one of the fastest players ever over twenty metres, so why isn't this attribute being used?

He never leads like a madman, and when he does lead at all, he is ignored by his team-mates. I'm happy for Jack to develop into whatever fits his unique strengths and weaknesses (everyone has those), but his speed is one of his biggest positive attributes. Why isn't it utilised?

See the bold section. You can't take marks on the lead if your teammates won't kick the ball in front of you. Watts can lead until he's blue in the face, but until we teach our midfielders how to pass to a leading forward it will do him no good at all. They either kick a blind bomb to the "hot spot" or the kick a floater over his head that forces him to stop and give his defender a nice ride up to the ball. Sam Blease is one of the few players on our list who can spear a low pass at eye-level to a leading forward, and he has a nasty habit of undercooking it and making it a half-volley. Yet another basic skill we seem to have mislaid.

[rjay 24,924]

See the bold section. You can't take marks on the lead if your teammates won't kick the ball in front of you. Watts can lead until he's blue in the face, but until we teach our midfielders how to pass to a leading forward it will do him no good at all. They either kick a blind bomb to the "hot spot" or the kick a floater over his head that forces him to stop and give his defender a nice ride up to the ball. Sam Blease is one of the few players on our list who can spear a low pass at eye-level to a leading forward, and he has a nasty habit of undercooking it and making it a half-volley. Yet another basic skill we seem to have mislaid.

Agree, it happens time and again, lucky he has a better temperament than Fev or Richo. With Sam I think the trouble is he often backs his kicking skills a bit too much and tries to be a bit pretty. I'm sure that will come out of his game with experience and with the coaches beating up on him. Strauss is another who can kick long low and accurately and we need to get more games into him.

Edited March 25, 2012 by rjay

[The Chazz 4,077]

dribble dribble...

What I find bizarre is so many supporters being satisfied with a key forward, former number one draft pick, playing off a wing in the VFL entering his 4th year. His intensity levels are below what's required to dominate at AFL level and there's a massive gulf between VFL and AFL. And you're talking Brownlows ? Jeez. Were you there ?

What I find bizarre is the fact taht you seem to think that we are "satisfied" with where Watts is at. We are not satisfied, we just relise, at this current stage, that he is not the KPF that we hoped for (crash and bash type), but becasue we know of this amazing skill he has, we are hoping that he will play well in the seniors in a position that currently suits his build/team structure/experience/etc. We are all agreeing that he was recruited as a Key Forward, and in my opinion, and a lot of others it seems, he is on track to fulfilling that role. Obviously he isn't coming on quick enough for your liking, but that's just your bad luck.

At the risk of speaking on behalf of all those against your thoughts, we're not all juiced up over what he did last night. As someone else said, if he can get 25+ possies, kick 2 goals and have 2+ goal assits each game in the big league, it won't matter a stuff where he plays. We've filled "that" hole you hoped Watts could achieve by picking up Clark. Hird had Lloyd as the main target up forward, which allowed Hird to play whatever role he wanted.

Let's not forget, in the past 2 seasons, we have had no key forward. Jurrah is NOT a key forward, nor Green, not Petterd. This kid (Jack) has had unrealistic expectations about the role he has the capacity to play. It will change.

By the way, I'm loving these personal insults - these sort of things catch up with folk like you. Considering the week that the footy club has had, and the great man that has left us, your continual putting down of posters, and bring their families in to some of your childish posts, just shows that blokes like Jimmy are a rare breed. It is quite obvious that you are a nothing when it obviously gives you great pleasure in putting others down. I'm glad I am well above you, but let's face it, it wouldn't be hard, because when you are nothing, there's plenty above you. Don't agree? Just becasue people see the game differently to you means that "they" either have a child's mentality, or you feel the need to spoon feed. I think that's a pretty good start to my arguement (<----just for you ).

[Dee Dee Ramone 89]

Visit footywire.com and compare Watts stats for his first 3 years with Franklin and N Reiwoldt. Jack is doing OK. Sure Franklin had more goals and some may question the quality of possession that Watss has won, but keep in mind we are comparing him to the best.

[bing181 9,234]

What I find bizarre is so many supporters being satisfied with a key forward ...

You can probably stop right there. Is he a key forward? You're assuming he is, and arguing from there. I'm not.

The Brownlow reference was in the context of "if he wins a Brownlow playing like this, you'd still be unhappy"; I for one never said I was satisfied, don't know who else did; and no I wasn't there, but that has no bearing on the discussion in question, which is in regards to your preconceptions in regards to Jack W.

[Hannibal 5,814]

we just relise, at this current stage, that he is not the KPF that we hoped for (crash and bash type)

Have you been drinking ? I won't quote it all (for your sake).

And ... you hoped for a "crash and bash type" when it came to Watts, which he never was even as a junior ?

Why am I arguing with a lightweight ?

[rjay 24,924]

Have you been drinking ? I won't quote it all (for your sake).

Seems like you've both been drinking (lol). Enough of the insults, is this insults, no abuse, argument?, debate? maybe a difference of opinion or just plain point scoring.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You can probably stop right there. Is he a key forward? You're assuming he is, and arguing from there. I'm not.

What happened to your comment "the best player in a draft is the best player in a draft" ? I refuted that silly misconception and you remain silent. You don't even respond even though it was your main platform. I'm debating half-wits that think on the run.

You said that I'm assuming he's a key forward and you're not ? FMD. He was picked as one and we both agree he doesn't hold the standard. Jeez, Demonland posters are good at revisionism when it suits them. Why do you think he was drafted ?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[jayceebee31 761]

I'd just like to remind you-jack turned 21 today- Happy returns for today and hope you stick it up them JW.

[McQueen 17,864]

Isn't it time to start bagging Morton again?